Hi All,

See my latest report. Urgent help needed as I can not get registration till these last issues are resolved.

1. I’ve jumped the red/yellow wire on headlight relay and can not get power to the white wire and can not get high beams to work

2. I can get power to the red wire going to the headlight relay and can get power to the yellow wire at the relay and the low beams work but when I flick the light switch to activate the high beam nothing happens and no power to fuses #1 & 2.

3. When I pull the light switch to try and get high beams to work, the horn sounds momentarily and when I indicate left or right the horn sounds sometimes. I think its grounding somewhere in the steering column?

4. Also, I managed to get the hazard light to work yesterday morning and today when I tried it out again, Its not working. I checked all the wiring against wiring diagram for the hazard light switch and correct wires are in the correct connectors

Please help, anyone.

Cheers Michael

Hi Michael:

FYI: You have another thread on this same issue that people have tried to help with and it would be better to keep everything together and not start a new one.

As I responded previously, it (should be) fairly easy to diagnose the problem with the high beams. Photo sent again below.

1) Key and lights on
2) Check for +12 at/from the red/white wire on relay terminal 56 (you say you have this)
3) You say you have power to the yellow terminal - so the relay is set in the low beam position.
4) Unhook the red/yellow small wire from "S" and set the wire off to the side
5) Clip a test wire to the S spade lug on the Relay
6) Momentarily touch the other end of the wire to a KNOWN GOOD ground
7) If the relay clicks then it should now be set in the high beam position and the white wire should have +12
8) If it does not click and switch over to high, then the relay is not working (even though you said you replaced it.) No click, no good.
9) If it DOES click and switch over then the problem is with your lever switch or the wiring between the switch and the relay.

Since you said you also replaced the lever switch and you're having an issue with the horn, I suspect there may be an issue in how the switch was replaced.

Remove your steering wheel and note that when you pull the lever, there are two brass contact strips on the left side of the circle that are pushed together to ground the wire and thus switch the relay. These strips are mounted to the plastic base of the switch and if that is not fully screwed to the steering column housing it can flex forward and perhaps touch the horn contact ring - grounding it as well and honking the horn.

Check that the four thin silver screws that hold the switches to the column housing are not loose or stripped. That plastic base should not flex toward you when you pull on the lever.

If you can't tighten the screws to keep it from flexing, you might try putting a thin layer of plastic tape on top of the brass strip to keep it from touching the horn contact ring. This will wear through after a while but should get you through the inspection.

Hope this helps.

Ron

Click to view attachment

See my responses in brackets

1) Key and lights on(Done)

2) Check for +12 at/from the red/white wire on relay terminal 56 (you say you have this)
(Correct)

3) You say you have power to the yellow terminal - so the relay is set in the low beam position.
(Correct)

4) Unhook the red/yellow small wire from "S" and set the wire off to the side
(Done)

5) Clip a test wire to the S spade lug on the Relay
(Done)

6) Momentarily touch the other end of the wire to a KNOWN GOOD ground
(Done)

7) If the relay clicks then it should now be set in the high beam position and the white wire should have +12
(No relay clicks)

8) If it does not click and switch over to high, then the relay is not working (even though you said you replaced it.) No click, no good.
(No click and tested with 2 other new relays and still no click)

9) If it DOES click and switch over then the problem is with your lever switch or the wiring between the switch and the relay.
(do you know what would be the color of the wire between the switch and relay?)

Since you said you also replaced the lever switch and you're having an issue with the horn, I suspect there may be an issue in how the switch was replaced.
(I have reinstalled the steering wheel many times and still get the same outcome and check installation procedure on Pelican Parts to double check it was correct)


Remove your steering wheel and note that when you pull the lever, there are two brass contact strips on the left side of the circle that are pushed together to ground the wire and thus switch the relay. These strips are mounted to the plastic base of the switch and if that is not fully screwed to the steering column housing it can flex forward and perhaps touch the horn contact ring - grounding it as well and honking the horn.
(this could also have something to do with bearing in steering wheel which I am due to replace. As the steering wheel wobbles back and forward slightly it may be grounding on the brass circles). But last night it didnt honk and hazard lights started working again as they should - dont understand how)

Check that the four thin silver screws that hold the switches to the column housing are not loose or stripped. That plastic base should not flex toward you when you pull on the lever.
(As mentioned above may be due to bearing which will be replaced soon)

If you can't tighten the screws to keep it from flexing, you might try putting a thin layer of plastic tape on top of the brass strip to keep it from touching the horn contact ring. This will wear through after a while but should get you through the inspection.
(tried the tape thing the previous night but still honked)

And thanks again Ron for your helping out.

Cheers

Another test to try at this point to test the actuator arm:

4a) Using your volt-ohm-meter on the OHMs setting, connect one lead to the wire taken off the S terminal and connect the other lead to chassis. Now actuate the high beam stalk. At rest, the VOM should read infinite ohms; with the stalk pulled it should read zero (or near zero) ohms.



This test method should isolate the relay removing the stalk from the equation. See the diagram below. With the S terminal open, this is the circuit you are testing. The circuit is relatively simple. Power comes to the Hi/Lo beam relay through the headlight switch to terminal 56 (red/white wire).

Grounding the S terminal causes the relay to energize (click) and switch power from 56a to F (lo to hi beam) or from F to 56a. You say 3 relays all do not work here. Are you sure the S terminal is touching the chassis? Where are you finding the chassis ground.

Try this test: With power on and assuming the lo beams are on, measure the voltage from the S terminal to ground. What do you measure?

@MFejsa

Did you do any work on the steering wheel while getting your car running? The horn shouldn't sound at all when energizing the hi/lo beams. There is likely something touching in and around the turnsignal stalk. Visibly check the wires in that area to see if something is touching the horn wire.

Ground somewhere. Possibly on the brass rivets. Need to pull it apart and check again and will also replace bearing in the steering wheel to reduce the wobble.

Very curious that three relays don't click, assuming that 56 is hot and S is grounded.

In our conversation in your other thread you said your relay (the one you showed) did not have an "F" terminal label but it was called 56a instead. Did you get all three from the same place? Can you post the part number(s)? It may be that they are different internally from the ones that have the F label.

Do any of your relays have a 5th lug? There are threads out there saying the 914 relay - also used in many type 4 VW's and thus cheaper/more available as a VW part - has been superseded by a 5 lug version with the extra lug being called 30. To use this on our cars a jumper is required between this 30 lug and 56.

Just checking..

Ron

Did you get all three from the same place?
(SEE ATTACHED OLD RELAY)

Can you post the part number(s)? It may be that they are different internally from the ones that have the F label.
(PART NUMBER OF THE NEW RELAY IS SHOWN IN THE ATTACHED)

Do any of your relays have a 5th lug? There are threads out there saying the 914 relay - also used in many type 4 VW's and thus cheaper/more available as a VW part - has been superseded by a 5 lug version with the extra lug being called 30. To use this on our cars a jumper is required between this 30 lug and 56.
(YES NEW RELAY IS A 5 LUG AND DO YOU NEED A JUMPER BETWEEN 30 LUG AND 56?)


Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Quote: [DO YOU NEED A JUMPER BETWEEN 30 LUG AND 56?]

Yes! - See this thread, Post # 6 - http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914...ight-relay.html

Sounds like your problem may be solved?

Ron

OK. Update is:

I've jumpered between 30 and 56 and now the high beam works. Thanks

But the issue is that I still get the horn to beep when I move the lever up or down or when I pull the high beam. So, its still grounding somewhere in the steering column.

Am ripping it apart now to check again tonight.

Michael

Update 2.

I take the steering wheel off and tightened down the 4 screws that holds down the turn signal switch and have also taped up the 'W' shaped wire to the right side of the switch as i believe that it was grounding against the brass ring on the steering wheel. Ive now managed to stop the grounding at it works as it should.

Some other problem to fix are:

1. When the engine is on the pop up lights would not come up and now dont know if it was related to the issue with the high/low beam relay which Ive since fixed by jumping the wire. Need to check if they go up now with the engine running but could not start as will wake up the neighborhood.

2. Fog light fuses blows when I pull the switch. It did work once or twice without blowing the fuse but now blows the fuse each time. What could it be?