I am going to be sending my 2.0 liter heads out to be rebuilt and I’m looking for recommendations as to who to send them to. I’m budgeting a $1000 when all is said and done, and to spend less than that would be great, but for however much I send I want to get the best heads back I can.

I’ve already inquired with Len Hoffman, who I’d love to have them done by. All new everything, basically a super stock set-up for a little more than I have budgeted, but I can’t wait 2 months to get them back.

I spoke with the people at RIMCO and they basically told me nothing over the phone. Their price is cheap compared to Len but their quote does not account for any welding needed (2.0 will need welding) and the only new parts would be new valve seats and guides.

Lastly I spoke to Steve at Type 4 parts. Super nice guy on the phone, and very informative as to what they do. Quote was cheaper than RIMCO and that includes some welding and new seats and guides.
At this point I’m leaning towards Type 4, but was wondering if anyone has gotten head work from them, and what to expect. Also, are their other places I should be looking into?

Thanks guys
Samson

this is gonna be interesting :-) ...

Do not go to Type4parts. Steve is a ripoff artist. Do a search here for Steve Stromberg or type4parts. Or wait, I'm sure others will chime in.


Andrew

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Jul 27 2005, 11:17 AM)

this is gonna be interesting :-) ...

I know... hold on, I'm popping popcorn!

on the serious side:

do a search for "stromberg" or "onion" here and you will find out a LOT about type4parts... you'd be better off sending the money to me... your heads won't get fixed, but at least I'm not lying about it...

Gotta get comfortable for this. Gonna be fun.

DAMN!

Hey man do some searches here and on theSTF and even the 912 registry BBS.

All I ca say is the reason the Mr. Hoffman takes 2 months to complete your heads is because he is absolutely slammed with ALL of my head work- Thats because he is the best-- No question. As a team he and I have made it a sole objective to work out TIV issues and update these heads/engines for the 21st century- not just slap stuff together and out the door quick and nasty.

For years Adrian at Headflow Masters 888 340 8979 did a lot of my headwork and did an excellent job.As my development goals changed Adrian was not willing to change his program so we ventured apart. He still does a good job on stockish heads and I would recommend him.

Your first mistake is being on a timeline- DON"T! Even if it means buying a spare set of 2.0 heads and sending them to Len while you continue driving the car I would do so and then sell your cores later.

Many say that "Any machinist" can work on these heads but I could not disagree more. The TIV head has problem areas that people that do not deal with these heads exclusively would never comprehend.

If you want your heads done right- Call Len and wait. if you want to take risks and at a worst case lose your cylinder heads because the person you send them to is a thief, liar and cheater..... Get on the 912 registyr BBS and look for Tony... He sent heads to someone mentioned in your post and can give you first hand experience of the screwed up job he receoved and how someone else had to remedy it- at added cost.

These heads may not be rocket science, but Len treats them like they are- Don't settle for less.

Hell when I walk into Len's shop I see more heads chopped up into cross sectional views and more silicone molds of ports than I do anything else. To correctly work with something (anything) the best you can you must fully understand it and become so involved with it that it basically controls your life- thats exactly what Len Hoffman is, a walking TIV cylinder head- and the best.

I have my 914 /4 heads done locally by Lyle Cherry. He has been working on VW's since 1963, and knows how to fix them right. He isn't cheap, and he isn't fast. And he's not on the internet. But if you want to wait for Lyle, he can fix them.

Call him at 817-498-0565.

Lyle is a one man operation, so leave a message if he doesn't answer. He is a crusty old bastard, but he really knows his shit.

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jul 27 2005, 08:32 AM)

These heads may not be rocket science, but Len treats them like they are- Don't settle for less.

Dude, I know! Type 4 heads are tricky, that's why I'm not going to bring them to my locale Machine shop. But I figured their must be at least one more person in the world that can do the job right.
If not, then I'll be sending them off to Len and getting a core for the mean time. Anybody got an extra set to 2 liter heads I can barrow

Here is wher Jake and I part ways. I had a set of heads done by Adrian and was not impressed. Had to send them back to have them re-done. He can't speak English worth a shit and doesn't follow directions either.

I was going to have Len do the basic work and I was going to do the welding and porting but since I am through with the T4 I won't get the chance. Talked with him on several occasion and was impressed with what I heard.

You might check with Jerry up and Northwest Connecting rod and see who does his heads. You might also look at Engine Machine Service out at LAX. Captain Krusty knows where to get ahold of them.

I am hearing good things from Memphis Motorworks. No personal experience.

Had MSHP do a set of heads for my engine and they did good work. The guides didn't last very long but I was not easy on it either.

Bret,
I don't think we differ at all..

As more time goes by I think that Adrian was doing better work for me than individuals because he KNEW it was going to be disassembled and checked before install...

The language barrier with Adrian does complicate things- I agree 100%.

For a stock rebuild on a timeline Adrian is competent enough- But results may vary.

OTAY. Maybe we are in agreement.

I use Engine Machine Service, in Los Angeles. 8416 Osage Avenue, LA, CA 90045, 310 641 7019. I've used them for 20 years, and like both their work and their timeliness. Pricing is consistent and reasonable. I've used CE (VERY good and VERY slammed), Rimco (least expensive, but a production line sorta place, requiring a lot of VERY specific instructions, which they sometimes follow), Ollies (spotty results, poor packing on return shipping), Kelly's Block Welding (good, a bit slow, innovative, doing some work no one else seems to want to do) and a couple of locals (looooosers) near me.

As a word of warning, these heads are 30-35 years old. Many have deteriorated to a point where repairs are either nearly impossible or cost prohibitive. Some have been "reapired" to the point they're unusable. EMS has hinted they're not real excited about doing them for much longer, but they've grumbled about this for several years. IF they tell you your heads aren't really worth fixing, BELIEVE them! 1.7 cores, good, unmolested ones, are approaching 500 bux APIECE! Nice original 2 litre cores are even harder to find, and will remain so.

That all said, I think a grand is in the ball park, IF your hreads are in pretty good shape. However, I just spent 1400 bucks on a pair of 1.7 heads, and it took 2 tries to come up with a good pair to rebuild. HTH, The Cap'n

Hoffman just finished my 2 litre heads.

He has been a no nonsense guy to deal with & didn't try to sell me anything that I didn't need. The last guy that worked on the heads was a butcher so I opted to replace all of the seats even though they only had 5,000 miles on them. He welded the spark plug holes and changed to 12mm, new seats, new ss valves, replaced all of the exhaust studs & rocker studs, HD springs & chromoly retainers. .010 step cut.

He does them in batches to save time. As it turns out he was getting ready to start a batch when I called him. I get them back next week and will post some pictures.

The price was around $1,100.00. Len said to absolutely not run head gaskets.

Yep, The Capn' is absolutely correct....

In fact, the ONLY heads we'll rebuild are the 2.0 914s.... All the others are sold as cores on EBAY most of the time because they are unknown in origin and not worth the hassle when we already have new AMC castings that are clean and easy to work with and flawless castings....

Their hardware sucks as do the seats, guides and valves but we toss it all away anyway...

Len and I have even created a 100% replica of the 2.0 head from the AMC 1.8L head. It can even incorporate the 3 stud intake if you desire. Its ports are matched to 2.0 standards, valves are 42X36 and the plug is relocated to the 2 liter position.

This allows a stealth set of 2L 914 heads based on brand new castings with out using heads that have been heat cycled for the past 30+ years like The Capn' pronounced so loudly and accurately! The heads were flow bench designed and backed up on the dyno- as always.

There is nothing worse than doing a ton of work to a head to find some issue with a screwey repair from the past or a weird casting flaw- it can remove dollars from our pockets very quick and sucks!

As Mark mentioned, Len normally runs individuals' heads in batches along with my heads to help us all out. He is finishing up a set of FP heads this week for Tom Burdge's run offs engine and he will be starting a new batch for me really soon- like a week and a half...... So you better call him FAST

Leo Goff at Memphis Motorwerks is a wizard with air cooled heads. That would be my recommendation, but they aren't cheap.

QUOTE (newto914s @ Jul 27 2005, 08:47 AM)

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jul 27 2005, 08:32 AM) These heads may not be rocket science, but Len treats them like they are- Don't settle for less. Dude, I know! Type 4 heads are tricky, that's why I'm not going to bring them to my locale Machine shop. But I figured their must be at least one more person in the world that can do the job right. If not, then I'll be sending them off to Len and getting a core for the mean time. Anybody got an extra set to 2 liter heads I can barrow

[QUOTE]But I figured their must be at least one more person in the world that can do the job right.


Samson, there is, his name is George, at European Motorworks # 1-800-722-8678.

He's doing a set of heads for me now, big titanium valves, around 50mm & 40mm, 12mm plugs, Berillium Copper seats, and some really big ports, but I'am doing it as funds allow.

Does good work, reasonably priced, can do your heads well under your budget.

[QUOTE=V6914,Jul 27 2005, 10:18 AM] [QUOTE=newto914s,Jul 27 2005, 08:47 AM] [QUOTE=Jake Raby,Jul 27 2005, 08:32 AM] These heads may not be rocket science, but Len treats them like they are- Don't settle for less.
[/QUOTE]


Dude, I know! Type 4 heads are tricky, that's why I'm not going to bring them to my locale Machine shop. But I figured their must be at least one more person in the world that can do the job right.
If not, then I'll be sending them off to Len and getting a core for the mean time. Anybody got an extra set to 2 liter heads I can barrow [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]But I figured their must be at least one more person in the world that can do the job right.


Samson, there is, his name is George, at European Motorworks # 1-800-722-8678.

He's doing a set of heads for me now, big titanium valves, around 50mm & 40mm, 12mm plugs, Berillium Copper seats, and some really big ports, but I'am doing it as funds allow.

Does good work, reasonably priced, can do your heads well under your budget. [/QUOTE]
Here's a pic

QUOTE (V6914 @ Jul 27 2005, 11:22 AM)

Samson, there is, his name is George, at European Motorworks # 1-800-722-8678. He's doing a set of heads for me now, big titanium valves, around 50mm & 40mm, 12mm plugs, Berillium Copper seats, and some really big ports, but I'am doing it as funds allow. Does good work, reasonably priced, can do your heads well under your budget. Here's a pic

and I bet after spending all that money, you won't have them flowed to know the numbers/ratios


my latest 2.0 heads have been done by "Jay" in Santa Clara, (forgot his last name)....recommended by a few different respected Bay Area shops......

another 1 man operation, good work, takes forever

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 27 2005, 10:29 AM)

QUOTE (V6914 @ Jul 27 2005, 11:22 AM) Samson, there is, his name is George, at European Motorworks # 1-800-722-8678. He's doing a set of heads for me now, big titanium valves, around 50mm & 40mm, 12mm  plugs, Berillium Copper seats, and some really big ports, but I'am doing it as funds allow. Does good work, reasonably priced, can do your heads well under your budget. Here's a pic and I bet after spending all that money, you won't have them flowed to know the numbers/ratios my latest 2.0 heads have been done by "Jay" in Santa Clara, (forgot his last name)....recommended by a few different respected Bay Area shops...... another 1 man operation, good work, takes forever

Isn't this the same guy that used to do heads for Harry Pellow (aka The Maestro)? I knew his shop was just around the corner from Harry's, which was in Santa Clara.

Thomas (one914racer) and I had our heads done by a places called Ollie's Machine Co. in Santa Ana, CA. His were done quite a while ago, mine recently. All chambers matched to 56ccs, punched out the intake to 48mm, new stainless valves, new valve seats, springs, ported, polished, intakes port-matched to 48mm. George and Ike do excellent work down there. I think most independants in SoCal take their engine work there because you can warranty their work and they are the best down here.

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 27 2005, 10:29 AM)

QUOTE (V6914 @ Jul 27 2005, 11:22 AM) Samson, there is, his name is George, at European Motorworks # 1-800-722-8678. He's doing a set of heads for me now, big titanium valves, around 50mm & 40mm, 12mm  plugs, Berillium Copper seats, and some really big ports, but I'am doing it as funds allow. Does good work, reasonably priced, can do your heads well under your budget. Here's a pic and I bet after spending all that money, you won't have them flowed to know the numbers/ratios my latest 2.0 heads have been done by "Jay" in Santa Clara, (forgot his last name)....recommended by a few different respected Bay Area shops...... another 1 man operation, good work, takes forever

[QUOTE]and I bet after spending all that money, you won't have them flowed to know the numbers/ratios

NOPE

The pic isn't my head, mine are 2.0, and my ports will be bigger than the Pic. Who needs stinking numbers/ratios There going to flow what there going to flow, which is more than they did.

And I'am not spending a Hole lot of money, but the most expensive item is the welding of the ports and manifolds, thats where I get

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jul 27 2005, 10:33 AM)

QUOTE my latest 2.0 heads have been done by "Jay" in Santa Clara, (forgot his last name)....recommended by a few different respected Bay Area shops...... another 1 man operation, good work, takes forever  :smash: Isn't this the same guy that used to do heads for Harry Pellow (aka The Maestro)? I knew his shop was just around the corner from Harry's, which was in Santa Clara.

yup, that's him. he did my heads, which i was happy with.

you need a sense of humour to deal with him -- he's a great guy, but he works at his own pace, at his own volition. i'd certainly use him again.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jul 27 2005, 11:33 AM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 27 2005, 10:29 AM) QUOTE (V6914 @ Jul 27 2005, 11:22 AM) Samson, there is, his name is George, at European Motorworks # 1-800-722-8678. He's doing a set of heads for me now, big titanium valves, around 50mm & 40mm, 12mm  plugs, Berillium Copper seats, and some really big ports, but I'am doing it as funds allow. Does good work, reasonably priced, can do your heads well under your budget. Here's a pic and I bet after spending all that money, you won't have them flowed to know the numbers/ratios my latest 2.0 heads have been done by "Jay" in Santa Clara, (forgot his last name)....recommended by a few different respected Bay Area shops...... another 1 man operation, good work, takes forever Isn't this the same guy that used to do heads for Harry Pellow (aka The Maestro)? I knew his shop was just around the corner from Harry's, which was in Santa Clara.

yep, same guy

QUOTE

you need a sense of humour to deal with him -- he's a great guy, but he works at his own pace, at his own volition. i'd certainly use him again

1st time I meet him I went to go pick up my heads after Brad dropped them off to him about a month earlier, when I called he said they'll be done in about 20 minutes after I show up....well, 4 hours later (including going to lunch with him, which he bought) I was finally able to take the heads home.....tons of knowledge and a great guy to talk to

Hmmn, TI valves are good for 1K max on the street before the valve job goes to shit... DLC coating helps but it still don't get much more than that...
Ti valves cost 16 times more money than a stainless valve...
This is because they last less than 1/4 as long as stainless and cost 4 times more money.

The only time we go to TI valves is when the velocity of the valve being rocketed into the chamber exceeds what a stainless valve can handle.

As far as valve/port margins go look at this post Len made on my forum yesterday... Its very informative.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.ph...1e3ba2dd5bebf11

I've heard good things about German Precision in Sunnyvale CA. About the work itself, rather. The owner can be, umm, interesting to deal with. (He told me flat-out that he doesn't do 914 heads, even though I had several friends who had heads there in his shop at that minute!!)

I know one local shop to not go to. PM me for details.

TechCraft in Redwood City did a reasonable job on my heads. It wound up being $1300 to replace all the seats, I think repair a crack or two, and go through the heads completely. Oh, and install stiffer valve springs, which may have saved my bacon not long ago when I overrevved the motor with no damage.

That was about five or six years ago that they did this work for me, though.

--DD

QUOTE (Dave_Darling @ Jul 27 2005, 01:19 PM)

(Snip) which may have saved my bacon not long ago when I overrevved the motor with no damage.

You seem to have a propensity for overreving motors....

Only two of them.... So far.... Hey, Clay--can I borry that Six when you've got it put together???

--DD

Sure, anytime Dave. Come to the MUSR. I need a navigator for the rally. (picking up the phone to call Pelican for a rev limiting rotor........)

George at european sucks. I bought some parts from him year ago and they were junk. He kept giving me the run around. After that I swore I would never recommend or let someone else buy parts from him.

I was told a long time ago by an old Porsche factory race mechanic that "I wouldn't let Ollie work on my lawnmower." Since I respect that opinion I figure he knows more about it than me.


I have talked with Walt, formerly of Competetion Engineering, you know Ray Lityz's old place. He seems very knowledgeable and Hal Crossland recommended them.

I made the mistake of going to type 4 parts for my 912e. Got them back with a cracked exhaust stud housing, had a hacker flycut, and no cc info!! Stay away from this guy!

QUOTE (Brett W @ Jul 27 2005, 01:10 PM)

George at european sucks.  I bought some parts from him year ago and they were junk.  He kept giving me the run around.  After that I swore I would never recommend or let someone else buy parts from him. I was told a long time ago by an old Porsche factory race mechanic that "I wouldn't let Ollie work on my lawnmower."  Since I respect that opinion I figure he knows more about it than me.   I have talked with Walt, formerly of Competetion Engineering, you know Ray Lityz's old place.  He seems very knowledgeable and Hal Crossland recommended them.

[QUOTE]George at european sucks.

I, disagree.

He stands behind his products, about a year and half ago, I had 2 cams go flat, from him, he replaced both and lifters, and other stuff, and the other stuff he didn't have to do. And the problem turned out to be bad lifters.


So, I don't know about what junk parts, you supposedly, received. As far as I am concerned, he stands behind his work and products, and has proved that to me.

And if you want to tell me exactly what your talking about, I'll ask George about it, since there are 2 sides of the coin.

my 1st experiance with George was so-so....I ended up sending back the headers since I felt the quality was cr@p on them...he returned my money (I ended up eating the shipping charge)

a few months later I called them and ordered new SS valves and a bunch of other valve train related parts...not too bad, but after finding out they recommened and sold me items that do not belong in my engine I'll purchase from other places 1st and use them as a last resort

type 4 parts sucks as Steve is a rip off artist.
I can't recommend Jerry at NWCS either as he does not the best head work in the world and doesnt listen to instructions.

Len does nice work and delivers them on time. I am sending another set soon while he does a set for the Westy.

Geoff-
The Westy heads are finished.. Just got them QC'd today...
They have your name on them. they sure are purty!

ok, I better log on and pay for them.

Yeah... Buy the part # 7424

I'll switch the pricing back for you for a few minutes as we agreed...

hahahaha. guess who was the parts house for the onion? european. i'm so screwed. def go with type4 parts. great standup guy. backs his stuff with a dandy warranty. super return policy. send your returns to ron (slits) so you can be sure to get your stuff back when he (steve stromberg, dba type4parts) refuses to accept it. his word is his bond and his honor his sword. i just wish he would fall on it.

k

Now, now- Lets play nice... LOL

We all know he has plenty of original ideas and would never, ever copy someone else's components to sell as his own-

This $hit is like a soap Opera. Let’s see if I can sum it up. Vote tally is in +’s and -'s
Len Hoffman/hands down, the man ++++
RIMCO-factory line, run of the mill Head Job +
Type4parts/I’m asking for trouble or worse ---
Leo Goff at Memphis Motorwerks/Worth checking into ++
Jerry up at Northwest Connecting Rod/not the best -+
Engine Machine Service/Consistent and reasonable ++
Ollies Machine Co/I shouldn’t bring my lawn mower to them, but SoCa guys bring there heads there--+
George, at European Motorworks/Lot of Custom work, but will sell me things I don’t need --+
"Jay" in Santa Clara/Very Good, Very slow+++
German Precision in Sunnyvale CA +
TechCraft in Redwood City/Reasonable work, little $ +
Competition Engineering/Very Good, but busy++
Lyle Cherry/Crusty old bastard worth a phone call +
Adrian at Headflow Masters/worked with Jake, definite positive ++
Kelly's Block Welding/good, a bit slow, innovative +

Jake, of all the complete heads you offer, which ones would be the best choose to tide me over till I get my heads back?
Thanks a ton guys. This has been a really helpful thread. I'm sure you'll let me know if I missed anyone
Samson

Hmmn, what are the other specs of the engine? Cam? Carbs or FI? Climate/elevation??

Where do you want the power?

I have full descriptions of the heads that toiok me DAYS to write- I can't post them because will copy them just like everything else- same goes with cams..

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... so they say . couple of the definitions of flattery; insincere or excessive praise. a pleasing self-deception.

the sincerest form of insincerity . i just hope he's very pleased with his deceptive business behavior. hi steve

k

Doc's Engine here in Tucson did a nice job on my old 2.0 heads. Here are some pictures of the repairs and coating work. Feel free to call them up.

QUOTE (914GT @ Jul 28 2005, 05:32 PM)

Doc's Engine here in Tucson did a nice job on my old 2.0 heads. Here are some pictures of the repairs and coating work. Feel free to call them up.

So was the motor ever finished and dyno'd?? (website not up to date)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 28 2005, 05:46 PM)

QUOTE (914GT @ Jul 28 2005, 05:32 PM) Doc's Engine here in Tucson did a nice job on my old 2.0 heads.  Here are some pictures of the repairs and coating work. Feel free to call them up. So was the motor ever finished and dyno'd?? (website not up to date)

Engine has been done for months and is ready to go. Earlier this year the owner of the dyno got sick and fell behind on his work, about the same time as business really picked up at the machine shop. Then I got involved on the V8 conversion, so the 2.0 project went on the back burner. Still want to see what that engine will do, but may end up just selling the thing the way it is. So many projects and so little time.

QUOTE (914GT @ Jul 28 2005, 04:32 PM)

Doc's Engine here in Tucson did a nice job on my old 2.0 heads. Here are some pictures of the repairs and coating work. Feel free to call them up.

Something about using a Dremel on a set of Heads just doesn't sound right to me. It's not the same small rotary tool they sell at Sears is it
Is that how most heads are done, seems like a lot more cutting welding than I would have thought. Other than that it looks pritty cool.

Jake, I'm thinking stock 2.0 Engine was rebuild 3 years ago, but I have no records or way of finding out about the specs without ripping it apart. I'm still running D-jet, so I'm going to say stock cam. I'd love to get the most I can out of it performace wise(thus sending the heads to Len), but will mostly be driving it around town. You can PM or e-mail me any confidential info.

QUOTE

Something about using a Dremel on a set of Heads just doesn't sound right to me. It's not the same small rotary tool they sell at Sears is it

so you wouldn't use a 13mm socket from Sears either??

A very high production shop would normally use an air-powered grinder, but nothing wrong using an electric one...it's all in how you use your tools....

I'd advise not going to a shop and seeing them work on your heads....god forbid a hammer is used for any part of the operation

Various burrs and cutters on an air die grinder are used to cut out cracks or rough finish welds. The Dremel is used for more fine grinding and finish smoothing of the surface.

ouch Mueller, I guess I opened myself up for that though. I always invisioned the work being done by large computer guided machines, like the "serdi." Who new.