I have mostly used soldering stations (Metcal and Hakko) that have adjustable temperature controls. Great for benchwork, not so much when you are upside down under the dash.

Weller, Milwaukee, Hakko make some battery powered units and Ive seen some no name butane powered irons. None seem to have much in the way of good temperature control. Twenty years ago I had a butane micro torch / soldiering iron - didn't like it at all. The solder would oxidize in seconds (dross up) and I was forever trying to keeping it clean no matter how low I kept the flame. Put it down the wrong way and the exhaust port would burn the table. I did like the micro torch tip for shrinking heat shrink tubing but that was about it.

Anyone have experiences with newer cordless soldering irons - battery or butane?

I've personally tried both expensive and cheap butane ones and I've never been satisfied with the performance (or longevity).

I'm back to the good ole tried and true gun-shaped plug in ones.

If someone's found a decent butane one, I'm game. I've got a half-dozen cans of butane hanging about in the cabinet (does anyone use these for lighters any more...?)

Ditch the soldering iron.

Open barrel crimp / Splices with a set of professional rollover crimp pliers are the way to go.

No one wants to hear this but soldering is not recommended for automotive wiring. However, I'm going to continue to say it. Soldering makes for a brittle connection that is prone to failure. Even more so for terminations vs. in-line splices.

This is not speculation or personal opinion, it is based on lots of testing and validation by Automotive, Aerospace, DoD, NASA. I've posted the white papers in other posts. Happy to provide here if proof is asked for.

Crimping is more reliable than soldering when done with proper crimp connectors and proper tools. I'm not talking about $5 hardware store crimps and connectors. Pro results require pro materials and pro tools but those need not be terribly expensive.

Visit @Tygaboy 's thread for info on how to do wiring the proper way. See post #3907 for example of properly made splice made with open barrel splice

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...900&st=3900

Good pro quality - rollover crimp tools are resonable at about $25-45. Here's a set on Amazon at $28. I have a set from MAC tools that cost me about $35 that will last a lifetime.

Rollover Crimp Pliers
https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Packard-Weath...229&sr=8-47

Rollover Splice:
https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-485043-1....AiABEgLA9PD_BwE

Rollover Butt Splice (not recommending ebay as a source - but was good picture):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/324724717702?chn=p...BSABEgIri_D_BwE

Sorry for the hijack: Like @superhawk996 Phil, here's my $0.02 on soldering vs. crimping:
Step away from the iron!
It's not that soldered joints WILL fail. Many of us can point to examples of a soldered joint that's "still working fine". It's that a crimped connection is FAR LESS LIKELY to fail.
For me, it was looking at motorsport-level harness building and hearing over and over: crimp, not solder. These folks do whatever it takes to make things last and that's good enough for me!

Plus, crimping is SO MUCH EASIER than soldering. Added bonus is that crimping causes less of a burning sensation, too!

There's a t-shirt in there somewhere... Maybe it's:
Be like Phil, be a CRIMPER!

Well said.

Don't forget the corrosion aspect that flux introduces to a soldered connection. Especially when acid core solder is used on wiring. Don't laugh I've seen it done. All solder and all flux are not created equal.

What about those splicers that are a combo of the two?
The low melt solder connectors that look like butt splicers and claim to be also watertight?



I've never used them before but picked some up and was planning on using them on the Westy that I'm about to replace the entire electrical system.

Snake oil? Overkill?

Zach

FWIW, I crimp, then solder, then shrink tube. No cut strands in the process. I also use a thermal insulation stripper which I HIGHLY recommend.

Whenever I can I crimp the tube heat shrink. I suck at soldering anyway.

I have a cheap radio shack special butane soldering iron. I've had it for at least 10 years and use it all the time. I've never had a soldered wire fail. It's definitely messier than my benchtop and the temp adjustment doesn't work great. But for soldering automotive stuff, it works great.

I have a box of these...I have used them with some success. Think it takes a little practice to get it right.

Used them in a couple tight spots where soldering wasn't option.
Splice your wires up nice, and use this as an added seal...
putting two wires, unspliced in here, I don't know if it would hold up the same.


I'm a solder guy--and to the initial question....wired soldering irons are really the only option. I expect that the solder connection will last longer than the floors on most of these cars!

Those solder sleeves are tricky to get right. Yes, I'm speaking from experience. See posts #3886 and #3904:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...900&st=3880

Risking : I have to say, I don't see why folks are so stuck on soldering ( ) when crimping is faster, easier, cleaner and (arguably) better.

I got them out of curiosity mostly. I almost always go with crimps for wiring, but the ads for the low heat solder connectors got me. I've had the butt crimps that are the common hardware store types come loose on me. The roll crimp connectors look to be pretty trick, I should get some of those.

Zach

This is great info and this is why I asked. Even though I asked about soldering irons, this was not hi-jacking the thread by offering better solutions. It was obvious why I wanted to ask about the irons. If there is something better than soldering why not do it?

I am only familiar with the Thomas & Betts Sta-Kon type crimp connectors. I did not know the rollover type were generally available. The rollover clamping onto the insulation gives lots of strain relief. (thank you for those links Superhawk)

I always thought that soldering was better to reduce the contact resistance of the joint. I agree it does make the joint brittle in that the strands are fused and cannot flex by sliding past each other. This makes it stiff and prone to fatigue failure ESPECIALLY at a termination where it is fixed from moving on one side. I don't think that it is as critical in the middle of a wire where both sides of the joint can move together. This is probably where the difference of thought comes from. I have to splice in some new turn signal wires going to the bulbs so I thought soldering and heat shrinking the mid wire connections was the way to go.

So from a vibration/motion, with an automotive wire perspective, crimp never solder near terminations but soldering mid wire is generally ok since it less likely to fail provided both sides either float or are clamped from movement?

I will need to invest in some new crimp tools and crimps...

I have always properly spliced and and soldered wires for automotive use. But I ALWAYS use a "Lineman's Splice". Western Union invented them back in the 1800s, ad they are still in use today.

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2022/01/09/t...ess-in-6-steps/

I have worked on cars for my whole life. I have never seen a properly done solder joint in a harness fail. I have seen lots of failures of solder joints that were done in a half-assed manner. The worst one was a Ferrari 308 with a cold solder joint in the start lead. But that was typical Italian wiring.


With proper strain relief, a soldered joint is more reliable than a crimped joint. NASA has a standard for soldering wiring for rockets. https://standards.nasa.gov/standard/nasa/nasa-std-87394

But I also agree that a proper soldered connection is much harder to do than a crimped connection.

@Superhawk996 did you ever stop to think that crimping a joint is cheaper and faster to make than a soldered joint? Maybe that is the reason the big car manufacturers do it?

Indeed I have. It is not just automotive that prefers crimped connectors.

I think we are splitting hairs to a degree. As previously noted by others, a soldered splice in a section of harness that isn't being exposed to bending stress and has no cyclic fatigue is a low probability of failure. I think we can all agree on that.

The bigger issue is improper use of acid core flux which will corrode copper wiring. Most folks grab what is at hand and will use it without knowing to avoid acid core for electronics.

I have seen the NASA standard you reference and agree that there are acceptable uses for soldered splices, but as you note, most people don't do them well.

With respect to terminations, the data is very clear that for terminations (i.e. at terminals, ring connectors, pins, etc.) that a crimped connection is superior. This has been proven out in laboratory testing with cyclic fatigue on shaker tables. In the same manner here is NASA's own word on the robustness of crimped terminations.

Click to view attachment

https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20b...quirements.html

I do admit that I'm a bit black and white on this and prefer crimped connectors all around. This is based on years of experience seeing where and how often soldered connections (especially at terminations) failed in the field.

Excerpt from the standard Clay referenced:

13.3 Assembly of Solder-Type Connectors

13.3.1 Wire shall be bent only in flexible, unwicked parts of the conductor to maintain stress
relief for solder dipped conductors. In all instances, stranded conductors will experience solder-
wicking during attachment. The conductor will be rigid up to the point where the wicking stops
and flexible beyond it. Wire movement concentrates stress at the point where wicking stops and
normal harness handling can produce conductor fatigue and failure.

13.3.2 Solid conductors shall be assembled in contacts by soldering, and cleaned and inspected
in accordance with the latest revision of IPC J-STD-001FS.

13.3.3 Contact mating surfaces and solder joints shall be cleaned to remove flux residue
following the soldering operation.

Note: CAUTION: WHERE SOLDER CONTACTS HAVE FLOAT, FLUX MAY RUN
DOWN ONTO THE MATING SURFACE OF THE CONTACT DURING SOLDERING
AND CAUSE INTERMITTENT AND OPEN CIRCUITS.



By no means do I want this to be perceived as a personal attack on Clay.

[quote name='ClayPerrine' date='Mar 30 2022, 01:31 PM' post='2991837'
...did you ever stop to think that crimping a joint is cheaper and faster to make than a soldered joint? Maybe that is the reason the big car manufacturers do it?
[/quote]
Again, no disrespect to anyone.
Agree to disagree. At the highest level of cost-no-object motorsports, where reliability is king there is essentially no soldering. And when there is, it's generally something like soldering leads to an OEM connector's terminal, potting the leads in the connector body and finishing it with a heat shrink boot.

In the end, this thread is a classic example of the never-ending argument about solder vs crimp. I'll wrap up my input with this:
Either approach when done correctly is likely to work just fine in the applications we 914 folks will find ourselves in. So do what makes you happy.

But if you need to borrow some awesome crimp tools, you know how to reach me!

This is a common misconception about crimped connections. Again, there are white papers out there that back the position that a crimped connection offers less resistance than soldering. Allow me pull up a good summary of why this is:

"At a first glance, it might seem like soldering provides a lower resistance than crimping. Surprisingly, reality differs. A properly crimped connection actually creates a metal-metal colloidal bond at the surface between the wire and the terminal. This makes it effectively gas tight, stopping oxidation inside the joint. The copper-on-copper connection is generally superior to solder considering that most solders have more resistance than copper.

In practice, the difference in resistance between either methods (properly done) is beyond the accuracy range of average multimeters. Hence, the difference is negligible, especially when working on 12v circuits. By that my point is that soldering will not provide “better conductivity”.

https://millennialdiyer.com/articles/motorc...rimp-or-solder/

To a large degree this is observable in the crimped terminations so familiar on our beloved 50 year old relics. Unless they are artificially corroded by salt exposure, you'll find most of the OEM crimped terminations are still 100% serviceable and do not show high resistance (i.e. voltage drops) across the various crimped connections in our cars.

Zach,

When I was doing DoD work, I saw numerous failures with these types of low temp solder connectors.

When they are done right, they work.

They are tricky to do right. I've seen a lot of cold solder joints that led to intermittent issues that were ultimately traced back to one of these connectors that wasn't done properly.

Personally, I won't touch them. Solder (ugh!) or crimp ( ) but avoid these like the plague.

Thank you everyone. Very informative and thought provoking.

Maybe hair splitting like has been said, and we all have personal preferences for a myriad of reasons, but if either is done properly I'm sure it isn't a disaster waiting to happen. I am always looking for new, different, better ideas. It is what moves us forward.

Anything can be done poorly and if it is done incorrectly or done blindly without consulting others (thats why I love this group) there could be potential for problems.

Yeah, acid flux is for plumbing not cars.

I can always point to my 914 as evidence of "what were you thinking?"... wood screws everywhere I look, cut wires, missing rubber shields on shift cables . The horn in the front wheel well (what rain?). Or, how about my latest discovery - locating the crap covered auxiliary fan oil cooler behind the rear wheel (huh? what kicked up road dirt clogging the fins?) - I will need the group's opinions on how to come up with an easy quick fix once I post some photos.

Kudos to all for their priceless input.

Not cordless but i have a USB driven soldering iron which is awesome.
I use a Mac power brick to power it. Combined with their silicon based long usb cable.

https://pine64.com/product/pinecil-smart-mi...soldering-iron/

https://pine64.com/product/usb-type-c-to-us...5-meter-length/

I didn't take it as such. And I never intended this as a personal attack on you. We all have different experiences. Sharing them means that we can learn from each other and we can all improve on what we know.

You are never too old to learn something new.


Clay

Nor did I take it that way

I love monitoring discussion like this. The passion of personal positions reminded me of politics as I was soldering some wires to a Honda ECU last night...



Then again, since I use dielectric grease on all terminal connections...

(OH NO HE DIDN'T!!!)

That's pretty cool!

Add to the solder failure topic: Yes, some idiots use acid based flux as opposed to resin flux but just as important most people do not know what a properly soldered joint looks like nor the correct method of soldering. In all of the articles I've read here, only once have I seen a wetted sponge/cloth next to the soldering iron or a wire clamping device being employed. Both sides here have presented good arguments to support their case but I've got to stick with what I've known to work for me.