Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: 2056 build
914World.com > The 914 Forums > 914World Garage
swood
It's time to put this together.
I have:
clean 1.8 case, needs to be line bored for a 2.0 crank.
rebuilt 1.8 heads, HD springs, 42x36 SS valves, 1.7 rocker assembly and solid spacer, new swivel adjuster (911)
stock cylinders opened to 96mm
Pistons - don't have 2.0L KB's yet, or rings.
Have 2.0L / 71mm Rods
Chromoly push rods
New Starter
New Alternator
Shadek HD aluminum oil pump
new clutch pressure plate

Cam - want to use L-Jet. Have a Web 86b, but probably not the best choice. There is the 9590 which is apparently similar to the Web 73 with a little split duration. Any suggestions on this? I'm looking for nice power and longevity. Not a track car, just a cruiser with some long drives.
Have: johnson ceramic cam followers, will weigh them tomorrow.

Have:
Mallory dizzy, Hyfire CDI need new coil.
SS heat exchangers. Don't plan on forgoing these

This is mostly a list for me to keep track of the major items. Things like rod bearings go without saying. It's been a long time since I've had my gearhead on and I'm having to refresh my memory.

Any comments that are helpful are appreciated.
BeatNavy
I've run the 9590 in a 2056 (D-Jet) and now in my 2270 (Microsquirt). I'm very happy in terms of performance and idle stability when warm. On a cold engine it does seem to need a lot of extra air for the first 60 to 90 seconds or so.
swood
My ceramic can followers weigh in st 62.4 g ea. and just under 2” long. Must be about 40g lighter than stock.

I also noticed that they do not have a small hole in the side, which I presume is for oil movement. Any thoughts?
JamesJ
QUOTE(swood @ Apr 7 2022, 12:45 PM) *

It's time to put this together.
I have:
clean 1.8 case, needs to be line bored for a 2.0 crank.
rebuilt 1.8 heads, HD springs, 42x36 SS valves, 1.7 rocker assembly and solid spacer, new swivel adjuster (911)
stock cylinders opened to 96mm
Pistons - don't have 2.0L KB's yet, or rings.
Have 2.0L / 71mm Rods
Chromoly push rods
New Starter
New Alternator
Shadek HD aluminum oil pump
new clutch pressure plate

Cam - want to use L-Jet. Have a Web 86b, but probably not the best choice. There is the 9590 which is apparently similar to the Web 73 with a little split duration. Any suggestions on this? I'm looking for nice power and longevity. Not a track car, just a cruiser with some long drives.
Have: johnson ceramic cam followers, will weigh them tomorrow.

Have:
Mallory dizzy, Hyfire CDI need new coil.
SS heat exchangers. Don't plan on forgoing these

This is mostly a list for me to keep track of the major items. Things like rod bearings go without saying. It's been a long time since I've had my gearhead on and I'm having to refresh my memory.

Any comments that are helpful are appreciated.


This is from Jake Raby regarding one of the reasons he replaced the 9550 with the 9590 cam: "The exhaust profile slightly changed to be more compliant with ethanol and oxygenated fuels."
The lift is the same as a Webcam 73 but the exhaust duration is longer. If you are in California, this would seem to be a good choice.
Chris Foley also likes the 9590 over the Webcam 73. I'll soon be purchasing the 9590 cam kit for my 2056 build.
Geezer914
The 1.8L case does not need to be line bored for the 2.0L crank. The case will only need to be line bored if the journals do not line up.
friethmiller
agree.gif
Jake Raby
The 9590 is a cam I designed around 2009 to replace the 9550. I coupled the Web 73 intake profile with the Web 62 exhaust profile. As an FYI the Web 62 is a master pulled from a stock 356SC cam profile.

This exhaust profile offered more compliance with ethanol fuels, and built a little more cylinder pressure, as well as enhanced vacuum signature at low speed and idle when compared with the 9550.

A straight pattern Web 73 is no comparison. The 9550 was a Web 73 intake profile, with an additional 5 degrees of exhaust duration. This camshaft didn't like ethanol fuel at all, and at idle speeds below 1050 RPM it lacked vacuum signature. The 9590 is better at everything than my old 9550 was, but not took a long time to figure out what exhaust profile was enough, without sacrificing the cool running the 9550 was known for.
BeatNavy
@Jake Raby , can you comment at all on the cold idle characteristics of the 9590? I love the cam, but I almost can't give it enough air when it's stone cold. On my 2270 w/Microsquirt I had to replace a Kia idle air control valve with a big ol' BMW IAC to have enough air control both cold and warm. Even then it struggles without some pedal feathering. Once head temps hit over 100, though, it's rock solid.

And yes, I'm really surprised how cool head temps are, particularly with the ceramic coated combustion chambers.
Jake Raby
QUOTE(BeatNavy @ May 26 2022, 08:21 AM) *

@Jake Raby , can you comment at all on the cold idle characteristics of the 9590? I love the cam, but I almost can't give it enough air when it's stone cold. On my 2270 w/Microsquirt I had to replace a Kia idle air control valve with a big ol' BMW IAC to have enough air control both cold and warm. Even then it struggles without some pedal feathering. Once head temps hit over 100, though, it's rock solid.

And yes, I'm really surprised how cool head temps are, particularly with the ceramic coated combustion chambers.


In these cases modern fuel is requiring higher initial ignition advance to create higher vacuum levels to assist in just started idle speed. This is where a distributor like the Bluetooth 123 unit that is infinitely adjustable is worth gold.

People generally make adjustments to air flow and idle speed to remedy this, when the issue is the just started ignition characteristics. Generally these engines are wanting 15* BTDC of ignition advance at idle to produce the same vacuum they used to create with 10-12* BTDC on older fuel.

Give the engine the initial ignition advance that it wants to idle.

That said, my biggest issue with PEFI set ups has always been the idle air characteristics, no matter what cam is used, and no matter what PEFI system is used- especially on just started fueling.
BeatNavy
Awesome, thanks Jake. I have tried playing with the ignition advance before, but I'll take a second look. Microsquirt (and others) allows great flexibility in timing assuming you're running it for spark like I am. Did not know that about modern fuels, though.

To the OP: again, highly recommend this cam for FI applications.
sixaddict
So likely a dumb question….but in the 2056 (or any other) is there a cam profile that will work with either fuel injection or carburetors?
Just checking as not sure of FI condition.
Thanks
JamesM
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ May 26 2022, 10:44 AM) *

QUOTE(BeatNavy @ May 26 2022, 08:21 AM) *

@Jake Raby , can you comment at all on the cold idle characteristics of the 9590? I love the cam, but I almost can't give it enough air when it's stone cold. On my 2270 w/Microsquirt I had to replace a Kia idle air control valve with a big ol' BMW IAC to have enough air control both cold and warm. Even then it struggles without some pedal feathering. Once head temps hit over 100, though, it's rock solid.

And yes, I'm really surprised how cool head temps are, particularly with the ceramic coated combustion chambers.


In these cases modern fuel is requiring higher initial ignition advance to create higher vacuum levels to assist in just started idle speed. This is where a distributor like the Bluetooth 123 unit that is infinitely adjustable is worth gold.

People generally make adjustments to air flow and idle speed to remedy this, when the issue is the just started ignition characteristics. Generally these engines are wanting 15* BTDC of ignition advance at idle to produce the same vacuum they used to create with 10-12* BTDC on older fuel.

Give the engine the initial ignition advance that it wants to idle.

That said, my biggest issue with PEFI set ups has always been the idle air characteristics, no matter what cam is used, and no matter what PEFI system is used- especially on just started fueling.





agree.gif agree.gif
Air is only one of the variables that impact idle speed/quality and people more often than not overlook/dont realize the impact of timing and fuel. In some cases you can cut the air opening 90%+ and still maintain the same idle speed just by dialing in timing and fuel. Look at vacuum when tuning idle, not just speed.


and in my experience cold idle is by far the most difficult aspect of PEFI to get dialed in. Idle can be tricky, but cold idle adds a bunch more variables on top of that. Have to have everything else dialed in first to have any chance of getting cold idle/afterstart enrichment remotely close.
Jake Raby
QUOTE(sixaddict @ May 26 2022, 11:20 AM) *

So likely a dumb question….but in the 2056 (or any other) is there a cam profile that will work with either fuel injection or carburetors?
Just checking as not sure of FI condition.
Thanks


No, camshaft is specific for the means of induction. What works well for carbs doesn't like FI, and vice versa.
There's no having your cake, and eating it too.
sixaddict
Thanks…..not surprised but was hoping for that option.



QUOTE(Jake Raby @ May 26 2022, 01:31 PM) *

QUOTE(sixaddict @ May 26 2022, 11:20 AM) *

So likely a dumb question….but in the 2056 (or any other) is there a cam profile that will work with either fuel injection or carburetors?
Just checking as not sure of FI condition.
Thanks


No, camshaft is specific for the means of induction. What works well for carbs doesn't like FI, and vice versa.
There's no having your cake, and eating it too.

ClayPerrine
I put a 9590 Cam, lifters, rocker kits and steel pushrods in Betty's engine, and we are still running the L-Jet. Rock solid idle warm, and and once I put a bigger throttle body on it, a definite improvement in performance. But it won't idle dead cold. For about the first minute, you have to feather the throttle. But that goes away before you get out of the driveway.

All things considered, it is a great choice for a FI car.

Clay
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.