Click to view attachment was moving into my new garage/shop and found some old racing memories. Earned me a checkered that day, but had a home track advantage.

SPEC-RX7 was the most fun, most competitive and least expensive class I ever competed in.

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John, I could not agree with you more. Moving up in classes just cost me a lot more $$. Momentum cars were a great learning tool and the completion was plentiful. What yrs did you compete, and did you ever make it to Buttonwillow, Willow Springs, cal speedway, or PIR?

Pretty cars
I bought and started to build a spec 7
Then the motor blew on the street

I’ve been thinking about FF
For all of the spec reasons and costs
Locally they get 40 car fields in vintage’s

I ran SCCA SRX7 from 1995 - 2000. Raced at Buttonwillow, Willow Springs, PIR, Holtville, Firebird, Vegas Speedway inside & outside road courses plus Spring Mountain in Pahrump.
Did make it to Cal Speedway in a different car a few years later.

Brant, it’s to bad you didn’t get a chance to race spec-7. Shift the damn thing all day at 8,200 rpm, and only freshen the motor with new apex seals after the season. Trans were a little weak, but still affordable and plentiful.25-35 car fields were common which made for great racing. In FF you won’t be able to bump draft or lean on each other entering turn one. As John can attest to, spec-7 motto was “rubbin is racin”.

John, I didn’t get started until 2003, then moved to CSR in 2007. My. Brother is still at it, but went to Spec Miata.

C Sports Racer. Now that's a Real race car. Good for you.





In 2000, Las Vegas SCCA disbanded their race program after the local tracks became no longer available.
So I decided I wanted to race a 914 in Vintage and POC/PCA.
I wasn't even smart enough to buy a Race Car, but made the expensive choice to build one.
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Three year$ and I tapped out.




. . . but it sure was fun.
(most of the time)

Hmm, I had a pretty good year on track in 2004.
These are from the NARRC Runoffs at LRP in Sept that year

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PCA Club Race at Calclub Speedway in 2003.
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@vegasracer I like the RX7. I see the Dave Turner Motorsports windshield banner. I met Dave a few years ago when I bought I car from him.

Great thread guys - we all had so much fun back then, love seeing your stuff!

What would the engine specs be now-a-days to compete in FP? I'm thinking on building a spare that would qualify. Current one would not (by a long shot).

By my reading it seems that one would have to maintain 94/72 and run 40mm Webers or Del's. Beyond that it seems pretty much any mods would fly - i.e. head work, big valves, etc. Not sure about ignition restrictions, but I'm guessing it would still have to run a distributor?

Would the Weber venturis be measured or would the stamping on the carbs get you in the door?

There may be more than one preparation spec for F Production 914s these days, I'm not sure. Greg Amy would be more familiar with recent additions to the rule set. The specs I prepared my car to have been mostly static for a long time. Stock stroke (66mm), stock bore (93mm) + up to .047", stock length ferrous rods, stock dia valve heads, 40mm carbs, not sure about crankfire ignition. Dry sump is allowed on a "full prep" 914 FP engine.

Something like that would only be measured after a protest, or at the Runoffs for a high placed finishers.

Each vintage org does it differently, but many will confirm to a certain year's SCCA regulations. Here's the 1981 SCCA GCR for reference. A 1.8L 914 ran in E Prod at that time. It gives specifics about bore, stroke, valve sizes, induction, etc.

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Took another read through the rule book and at best I'd get it into EP with a bunch of modifications. Would have to source a 2L engine, change brakes, probably some suspension parts, maybe ignition. etc etc .... so not going to go that route. I'll stick to VP2 (up to 3.2L). If I were to build a 1.9L engine I could go down to VP1, which would be fun (lots of Sprites, some 510's etc) but it would be hard to get weight down enough to be competitive with those smaller cars. with the current engine, and if I were to build a 2.5L engine for it, SPU under ICSCC rules (based off of SCCA). SPU is a catch all group for all the odd ball cars. The 914 fits that description rather nicely. In the past my car was also run in SB1 (small bore) but I can't find anything about that in current rules. I would guess it was a sub-class of GT.

I would actually like to build a 2.5 with 102/76 B/S, 44 IDF's and a properly built gearbox. That would be a fun car. In it's current state, with that drive line, my car would weigh in at a tick over 2K# with me in it. Could be a hoot.

For now I plan to get what I have together and be ready for early season testing. I'll get some photos together when Ive got it all uncovered next.

We're talkin' the 1.8, yes? The 1.8 (or a 1.7) engine is still in FP with the same basic specs as before, "Prep Level 1" or full-race spec. Porting/polishing, open cams, open compression, 1.2mm overbore, cylinders free, pair of 40mm Webers or Dells with 38mm chokes, dry sump. 1970# minimum weight.

Chris' 1.8L engine is already built to these specs. I borrowed it for the historics car for a couple weekends and it's very very good (I wish he'd sell it to me).

You can also run the 2L in FProd, but it's "Prep Level 2" or "limited prep". Port matching within 1" from intake manifold interface, 11:1 compression, .450" cams, twin carbs with 38mm chokes, 2-stage dry sump allowed. 2030# min weight.

If you're feeling flush, you can run a "full prep" 2L in E Production at 1820#, same prep as the 1.8L full prep. But that's a big engine class, so bring your wallet (BMW Z3 has won the last couple years, 944S before that?) For comparison, Kip van Steenburg has an EP 2L /6 he's been trying to get to the Runoffs but has had a world of trouble with it. But when he gets it runnin' it'll be runnin' good...

Or if you want to build a "limited prep" 1.8L, that's in H Prod at 2100#. Might be fun there (I should just remove the 2L badge and tell 'em it's a 1.8L lol)

EP: 2L /4 Full Prep 1820#; 2L /6 Full Prep 1900#
FP: 1.7/1.8L Full prep 1970#
FP: 2L Limited Prep 2030#
HP: 1.7/1.8L Limited Prep 2100#

Maybe someday Chris will sell me that 1.8L... - GA

Edit: I got 2-stage cam-driven dry-sump pumps allowed in all the Type 4 engines for the Porsche 914s, due to our shitty oiling system. So that's the standard CB Performance 2-stage pump or similar. I've asked a couple times to get the 2L limited prep engine allowed into HP but they're fraidy-skeered of it and want me to campaign it in FP so they can measure the performance...you know, the realm of Hondas and Miatas...nope.

Yah, I avoid classes with Miatas too... those guys are nuts. Pro 3 is worse (3 series BMW's) - that's little more than a demolition derby. Unfortunately the SPU class is often shared with the Pro3 group as well as some other bigger cars so that's less of an appeal to me too.
As it sits now my car would fall into the higher level prep groups on account of bodywork, suspension, yes it's dry sump, crank fired ignition, etc. I fear a rather large rabbit hole looming if I go down that path. I have no intentions of national or for that matter, regional points or championship aspirations. Frankly at my age I'll probably only race it for a couple years and then take it out to the occasional track day. Vintage groups will be enough to scratch my itch, so I'll slot it in where I can and enjoy the ride. SVRA runs up here as well as a PNW based vintage body called SOVREN. Entry costs are a little higher, but it's relatively gentlemanly, which suits me fine.

Misread the most recent posts. I thought you guys were talking about vintage classing. Would be great to see some 914s in SCCA Prod classes, it's been a while.

That's my B engine, estimated 150hp.
My 180hp A engine needs rings.
(Either engine is available for purchase.)

If i were 20 years (maybe 30) younger I'd be going after a production class car, but it would be a labor of love. In my mind the limiting factor is getting a pushrod engine to spin fast and powerful enough to compete with modern tech. That's given one wants to stick with the T4 / 4 cyl base.
Building and maintaining a 6 is well out of my range, given vintage Porsche values...

Opinions follow...

As much as I'd love to see a 914 competitive in Prod, I think out would HAVE to be a labor of love. Here's the results from the 2023 Runoffs (check out that guy in an EP Civic that only made it 1-1/4 laps):

https://www.scca.com/pages/2023-scca-runoffs-results

E Production: Big engines class. 2.5L BMWs. Maybe a Z car with a Rebello engine (if it were driven well, unlike the ones I was racing with mid-pack). 2nd-gen Mazda RX-7s driven particularly well (like Hainsworth's). Your engine builder will be your best friend (and you, his).

I just don't see a 4-banger full-prep Type 4 2L bringing the kind of numbers needed to compete in EP, especially since the '24/'25 Runoffs are at America's Dyno, Road America. Even with a 600# weight advantage - assuming you can get it down to 1800-ish with driver - you're going to need 225+ ponies to compete. And it'll be fragile.

As noted above, Kip van Steenburg has a 2L 6-banger that's showing potential, but it's fragile: it appeared at the 2021 and 2022 Runoffs but was withdrawn during the test days. Watch for that car to eventually get sorted and maybe John Hainsworth driving it.

F Production: Miatas and Hondas/Acuras. Miatas bring the handling and braking, Honda brings the power.

IMO, it's a tough row to hoe for the 914. The 1.8L full-prep 914 has neither the power of the Hondas nor the handling/braking of the Miatas. You can run alternate brakes now in Prod (+2% weight) but you're still scrapping against those two marques.

The limited-prep 2L may have a chance, given it's allowed dual Webers/Dells. Can you get a reliable 150hp for its 2030# (with driver; 2083# with alternate gear ratios)? But it's all limited prep, so think Improved Touring spec chassis with slicks.

H Production: SCCA finally allowed 2L engines into HP, and the water-cooled VWs are shining there. Chris Schaafsma has won HP two years on the trot, and he has a really well built, and well-driven, Golf. Steve Sargis in the full-prep Triumph is always in the mix, as is Vesa Siligren in the limited-prep Honda CRX.

But SCCA is only allowing the 1.8L 914 into HP right now, and only at Limited Prep -- and you have to keep the fuel injection (though it can be Microsquirted). That's basically Improved Touring-spec with cams. MAYBE the 1.8L limited prep has a chance in HP at 2100# (2153# if you swapped out factory gear ratios)? It would take a dedicated effort, I think, to fully develop the car - as noted it's basically a strong IT effort on slicks.

I think that SCCA would eventually allow the LP 2L into HP, but someone needs to drive one in FP to demonstrate it. My historics racer is an ex-ITA prep chassis and the engine is very much within the specs of Limited Prep Prod. I have no idea what my plans are for '24 but maybe I'll buy/borrow an AIM Solo (it's what SCCA uses), get the engine dyno'd and the car weighed, and run a couple Regionals to send that data to the CRB for consideration. We'll see...

GA

Any idea whatever happened to Erik Madsen's (spelling?) EP car?

Spot on. I think I'll stick to the Vintage groups - for now at least. Many thanks for the clarificaions.
-C

I recall that he parted it out. I wonder where the chassis wound up. I believe he is @Thorshammer on the forum. Maybe he can tell us

Hello Everyone!

Sorry, a little late to the party. After the 05 Runoffs, my 914-6 race car was parted out. I tried unsuccessfully to sell it as a package. The JongBloed wheels, Hewland, and Ohlins shocks went to to a guy to build a very nice FP car, but I don’t think it ever competed, and last I knew, it was still in his home garage. The complete engine went to Texas, to be used in a vintage car, and I have never heard from the owner.

Oh, and the 2.0 six is not fragile in anyway, shape or form if you build it from the right parts, and gave the right machinist…

I am with Greg, I gave up on the idea of building a Prod 914 back in 05 when I watched what it took for Finch's old car to win and for Eric to come in second (I slept once since that day).

In EP there is no way you will get the durability out of the T4, It can't make the power required reliably. I doubt you can make the power reliably out of a six cylinder either. At best its gonna make 230, MAYBE on a good day.

The chassis has a lot of issues the require a full blown rethink, Kevin Groot was headed in the right direction way back then. The modern stuff is just so much faster, its not worth the headache.

The front running Z3s currently make north of 270hp and the 944 is maybe a wee bit north of that.