Just wondering if anyone drives a VW Type 4. I never see them mentioned on this site.

Just curious how hard it is to get parts e.g. seals, seat covers, headliners, etc? Does the transmission share engagement teeth and sncyros with our 914's?

Maybe it's me, but I can't find 411/412 parts on common VW parts store like bus depot, CIP1, etc.

411/412 were very rare even in the 1980s when I started driving. I know, I went looking for one (ended up with a Type 3 Squareback).

914 were plentiful in comparison.

No problem getting the parts, the issue is how to fund the purchase!

Look here: https://lnengineering.com/type-4-store.html?limit=all

Click to view attachment

i believe they are a nightmare to get a lot of the parts for.

a good place to look might be south africa believe it or not.
there were a lot of 411 and 412s there - one of the few places on earth the car was a relative success. like australia the climate was kind to the cars (at least the exterior metal anyway). they never sold them in australia so we never see them here.
just a few rare examples that were assessment cars and german embassy vehicles.
and even those i never see at vw events anymore.

ps
i always liked the 412 wagon. i used to own a type 3 wagon and the 412 takes the packaging to another level!!!!

IIRC, Mike D has one.
@Mike D

Almost bought a used 412 when I wanted to semi-retire driving the 914 on a daily basis. The gasoline-fueled heater scared the h#** out of me. Got a new Jetta instead. 1983, I think.

yeah, its a scary thought having a head on crash with the heater going full bore.
it was in the frunk wasn't it!!!!!!!!

Long ago and far away I had a 411 wagon. It was an automatic with an injected 1700. I seem to recall the ones sold in the US were like that, It you wanted the 1800cc and standard trans, it had to be brought over from Europe.
Had a number of the type 3 Squarebacks, tried the 411 to get a little more room. Wasn't crazy about the automatic...

Don’t recall. Along one of the sides. Scary anywhere.

My first car was a 1971 411 Wagon with the 1.7 manual trans and a gas heater. The heater was located close to the cowl and parallel to it. It worked like a dream...instant heat...thermostat control was winding the windows up and down!

Took that car up to the mountains skiing many, many times on my A/S Michelins...never got stuck in the snow. It was awesome.

In the summer, it was a great car to take camping...with dry accomodations in the back!

Even in the early 80's, parts were difficult to find. Overall, I thought it was a great car...lots of room with that additional huge frunk. The only thing I didn't like about that car was the hydraulic clutch set-up...the slave cylinder was prone to leaking in the winter months.

More than 40 years on, I still think about that car!

These cars were in my country in the 80's ,apparently they drove and handled well but according to an old dutch mechanic I talked to the VW service departments weren't that fussed with them due to them overheating ,he said many motors failed and were replaced by the factory under warranty,he mentioned many he came across had experienced head failures.
I like the wagons ,the fastback was from most angles an odd looking car IMO.
Gearboxs ? the manual was unique to these cars,not sure what the internals were,most like some crossover to the beetle IRS box .

We had a 411 sedan 4 speed manual some 30 years ago. A very solid car. A second gas heater was sandwiched over the transmission. Great heat, but you could watch the gas guage drop. It really scooted when I transplanted a 914 2.0 engine. Other than a few nuts, the trans is completely different.

yes - funny about new zealand.
a bloke in new zealand was a real enthusiast of 411/412s.
he wrote a book which i have on my shelves i got a fair while back.
Volkswagens of the World. Simon Glen.

interesting story about overheating type 4s.
we tended to have the opposite experience in australia.
the type 4 engine was only in kombi buses but it ran very well in the hot conditions here and the cooling system was generally regarded as far superior to the type 3 pancake engine.
the type 3 engine certainly did overheat.
i had to ease off in summer with mine out on the highway and stick to 50mph on aussie summer days. flog them to 60 on a hot day and drive them long enough and they would burn valves.
the flaw was in the location of the oil cooler which was basically an adaption of the beetle. they just laid the oil cooler flat instead of vertical and received cooling air that had already passed over the front cylinder. from memory it was always cylinder #3 that gave the problem. even with care the pancake motors never lasted as long as the upright beetle engines. perhaps the dutch mechanic was talking about that engine which was in the type 3 cars rather than the type 4 engine?

there were plenty of type 3s down our way in australia and probably new zealand in the 60s and 70s?
they were locally manufactured at the australian plant in clayton in melbourne.

VW rejected the 411/412 for sale in australia. the car was unable to compete with japanese imports that were coming in to their own at the time. VW tried to stay in the market with the golf and the passat, which i think continued to be locally assembled but the japanese were just too good. all over by the very early 80s and VW left the market down here. as did just about every other european brand.

Interesting thread- can't remember the last time I actually saw one in the flesh. A local coffee shop here has a Porsche C&C each month and also one for VW's. Only been to the VW once but don't remember a 411 0r 412. Fair number of type 3's.

It wasn't the fault of the T4 engine as such it was the strange way they recieved cooling air in 411/412 which wasn't unlike the T3,in the bus they got a lot more air,my own t4 powered bus I had when I lived in australia give no issues and it was a heavy semi camper and loaded to the brim when we traveled from brisbane to WA.
VW addressed this with the T3 by fitting what were called "cool tins" for the lower cylinders so they must have known something,this design most likely was taken off the T4 motor which already had them.

@porschetub

yeah you could be right about 411/412 ducting.
but maybe not so much the ducting as the cooling inlet louvre location?

the notchback type 3 of which there is a great abundance of here (or was at one time) had the cooling grille inlet spread across the top of the panel between the rear screen and the edge of the engine (rear trunk) lid. apparently this was the ideal place aerodynamically for pulling the air in.

but the type 3 fast backs had the louvres on the rear guards down the flanks identical to the squarebacks. story i got told was the sloping fast back shape meant that intake louvres somewhere on the top surface of the engine lid or near rear window would not work. the angle was not right. it worked on a beetle but not a type 3 which had a less steep rake.

the rest of the internal bodywork ducting into the fan on all three type 3 models was identical.

only the variant (squareback) 411s and 412s had intake louvres along the flanks - the sedan and fastback versions did have it on the engine lid which sloped in a way that was not unlike the fast back type 3s. maybe a little less gentle than the type 3 but certainly not as steep as the beetle. maybe vw screwed up on that one? possibly the dutch mechanic might have been talking about that? the 411/412 variant also had bodywork ducting and fan boot almost identical to type 3s but the sedan and fastback were very different. had some kind of big engine bay grilled duct inside the compartment and air flowed into that via the decklid. might have been a mess up for hotter climates but ok in europe?

nevertheless the type 3 was a flawed engine in inherent cooling terms.
it might have worked ok in europe but it was marginal in aus in high summer or out in the hotter parts of country australia.
they all had cool tins on them down here from early on. might have even been invented by VW australia or VW south africa? who knows. didn't help them here.

the basic problem was that oil cooler. archilles heel. the rest of the type 3 was great.
with superb packaging. but boy you had to baby them in summer. change the oil, keep it fresh and really nurse them on a hot day. and even with all that they still gave up the ghost in half the time of a beetle engine.

EDIT
at least they finally fixed that idiocy with the oil cooler on the type 4 engine.
it was smart to finally give it a dedicated feed off the fan and blow that out the bottom without going anywhere near the cylinders. took them enough time to get that right.
the type 3 should have got the type 4 motor instead of the shorcut version it got.

Best looking one I've ever seen was a 2 door, 4 speed, like a Irish Green/saddle interior, and a factory sunroof. In the 70s. I think today with those features it would be a rare ride.

I had one for many years as a daily driver and winter car living in the northeast. Was a 73 with automatic wagon. Rebuilt both the auto tranny and engine and ran just great. Put in an aftermarket sunroof.

Best concept ever as big front trunk, and rear station wagon space. Only issue was if temperature got around 0F, was impossible to start, even using starter fluid. Wanted to swap to carbs, but it rusted faster than I could source the carbs. Sadly sold it.

There are generally a few for sale on the samba, but mostly not worth the price as are as bad as the one I got rid of.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/cat.php?id=11


Type 3 squarebacks are nice, but are getting expensive and are not the same as the T4. would love to have another. But would want the 4 speed and are very few that made it to the US. Understand the 4 speed wan not the same as the type 1 and 3 trannys. Much beefier and probably same as was in the later type 2 busses with the type 4 engine.

jjs3rd914

My buddy Nathan has one he is trying to get road worthy to sell. You can see it on his YouTube channel Barefoot Garage. I have been helping him wrench on it. Parts are very tough to find. He has had to do lots of cross referencing. I don’t think it would even be possible to do any type true restoration on.

My first car was a 412, I was 12 years old, way too young to drive, and I gave $25 and a parakeet for it. It had been totaled and the motor was removed for a dune buggy. It never did run and went to a junkyard later (for a profit) but taught me a lot about vw's and bodywork, and to not get your finger between torn metalwork and a bfh.

There was a family in our neighborhood that got a 412 around '72, they also had an Audi Fox. Clearly gluttons for punishment. I check avails on the Samba for oddballs (still searching for a '75/6 Scirocco) and never see more than a handful of type 4s for sale. Usually beat.

When new they were the most plush and expensive Volkswagen, now they're mostly forgotten.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/cat.php?id=11

I bought one back in 1986 or 1987. Drove it around for a while, it was a 412, blue with 4spd. Neat, but weird VW I thought back then. I bought it for something like $50 and pulled the motor and installed it in my 1966 Bug.

Had two 411s, both LE automatics in Gambia Red with black interior. The second one was a one owner car owned by an old guy who worked for British Airways back in the days when it was BOAC (British Overseas Airways Corporation). He'd seen the 411 while out in the USA and ordered one at home in the UK with every factory option he could find. I got the Eberspacher gas heater working (it also had a timer to turn it on in the mornings) and loved that car. I collected every factory accessory I could (rear window blind was super rare as it was made specifically for the 411 sedan), along with NOS trim parts. Miss it...

Wow- the VW 411/412- brings back memories. … the 412 was my very first car, and started me down a path to buying my first 914. The first 412 was an automatic wagon I bought for $200 from an Army Reserve guy. A military vehicle had backed into the right rear side panel, but otherwise is was still a POS.

Shortly after I bought a second- a ‘74 412, but this one was the Fastback, with the rare 4sp manual! It also had the gas heater, but I was too scared to use it. It had a separate tiny exhaust pipe coming out the side. I always thought the heater was behind the rear seat somewhere. Could be wrong.

I rebuilt the motor on this one, new clutch, etc. Put “fancy” Empi rims and “big” 185 tires on- I was stylin’! I found a used header and put that on too- Custom! No one saw the aluminum flashing, roofing tar & rivets I used to fix the holes in the floorboards. It worked- hard part was finding good metal for the rivets! With snow tires in the winter, I could go anywhere with

That car lasted me all the way through college. Sold it to buy a 1984 Diesel Golf because I had a long commute and was wearing a suit everyday to work.

Parts for the 412 were had to find back then already due to rarity. For example, i need a new clutch master cylinder. The parts guy looked it up and told me VW doesn’t make a hydraulic clutch! I had to buy a rebuild kit for some other car - BMW? - with similar design and bore.

Having rebuilt the 412 motor, I was drawn to the 914-4 for a project/fun car. Never could afford the -6. Still can’t. That was over 30 years ago. The 412’s are long gone, but I still own the 914.

Thanks for the memories!

I often have thought about if I would have kept mine, that putting a 901 tranny 5 speed in the car could have resulted in a slick ride. A 914 tranny would work I believe with a 911/912 nose piece and flipping the ring and pinion. A big job, and maybe at the end of the day not work it due to the lack of parts.

Anyhow I loved the one I had, and would have another if the lotto ever visits.

jjs3rd914

I ordered a new Westmoreland built Vw GTI in September 1982 and took delivery on Christmas Eve. The Salesman lived near me and offered to take the car when it needed service and would swap his demonstrator. Well, that was a VW 412 automatic. My commute was 45 miles each way so I got a good chance to put some miles on one. I loved the gas heater and the instant heat. It performed well for the time and frankly, I liked it. A manual would have been better though.

Charlie

Did the 412 have a type 4 like the 914 or a bus type 4?

I guess the only difference is the oil dip stick location, cam, and FI tuning?

The 411's had the same 1.7L as the 1.7L 914's did. Don't know about the 1.8L in the 412 and whether it had Djet or Ljet fuel injection system in the USA.

L Jet. slightly different configuration of components. all were full automatics. no manual 1.8. californian version was called an EC-D engine. not sure on 49 states. no info.
might have been an EC-C.

the 412 got the L jet approx 3 months before the 914 - which makes it the first production car to be fitted with L jet. 914 beginning production late oct 73 is the second if you want to split hairs and get down to months instead of years. there was 74 bus for california that was the third L jet - entered production 3 months after the 914. the opel manta was the fourth. 3 months after the bus in march 74.

all the european 412s did not have L jet. carbs instead. L Jet only in the USA.

there was a 74 412 with manual gearbox and that used the 1.7 D jet.
think it might only have been available as the 2 door fastback.
the wagon and the 4 door used the 1.8 and were auto.

Hi, just saw this. I have a 1974 412 Wagon and it's a 1.8. I have not had any trouble keeping it in original condition but now am finally parting with it (no pun intended). It is in prime condition but does need transmission work. That is just too problematic for me so time to sell or donate. Thesamba.com is a good source for Type 4s

Best, Steve

Donate?









lol

Lovely car. Learned how to drive in one on a gravel road in Corvallis in 1969 or 1970. 25 years later picked up a 311, but it was not remotely as good a car to drive.

See the VW 411/412 Forum over at the Samba.com for current parts availability information. Engine parts are same as our 914’s. Everything else is getting more and more difficult to source since they never sold very well in the USA.

Learned to drive in an Alaska Blue '73 412 wagon in 1974. If I remember correctly the gasoline heater had a timer on it. It was meant as a pre-heater until the engine warmed up and you got your heat in the usual manor. To this day still my favorite car.

Looks nice, and