Ok, I know that sight unseen it is hard to estimate the value of car, but I will do my best to describe the car I looked at last night. I am also going to attach a number of photos of the interesting bits mentioned below...

It is a 73 2.0. The car is complete, but not currently in run-able condition. It was last driven in about 1989. The owner reports that the car was towed home from an autocross in 89 after a problem with clutch cable with the intention to fix, but was never addressed. The car was then stored outside under cover from 1989 to 1997 (does not look like it has been stored uncovered). Then it was moved into a garage from 1997 to today.

Engine has stock EFI and looks to be complete. Owner has receipts for top end rebuild (including new heads) from about 1987, but engine, clutch and transmission are in otherwise unknown state. Engine code is for a 2.0. I am assuming good core for rebuild, but that is about it.

Interior looks to have normal wear and tear. I would say average condition overall. Seats need to be recovered/replaced. It has the center console and all gauges. Has Mahle wheels (real or clone, I don’t know for sure) on old rotted tires. Has front and rear sway bars and suspension looks to be in good shape. I can’t say about condition of brakes, etc.

Body is in overall average condition. It has a number of small bubble spots, chips, scratches, etc. This includes some (not much) right under the vinyl on the roof pillars. Driver side fender has been replaced. Owner had put car into a wall at a HPDE in mid 1980s. I can see where fender was replaced and some minor bodywork around driver side headlight. Does not look like anything else was cut out and replaced and body work around suspension pickup points look ok. Driver door may have been replaced at that time as well.

Ok, now for the rust. Hell hole has been replaced. Owner claims to have not performed this work and didn’t even know it had been done. Current owner purchased car in 1984, so previous owner may have had this done. It looks like the entire box area up past the rear inner suspension point was replaced. I don’t know why, but I didn’t take a photo of this (doh!). Maybe I just was not as concerned considering it looks to have been well done. If you didn’t know what to look for you may not notice it had been replaced (seam weld vs. spot, etc.). Battery tray was not put back and battery was moved to trunk. Some surface rust in front truck at very bottom, but front trunk is solid otherwise. Rear trunk had typical rust in area over exhaust. Visually it is not pretty but looks to be mostly surface rust with no area around perimeter that I could come close to pushing a screwdriver through.

I don’t view them as really, really bad, but the Longitudinals are the worst part of the car. Rocker panels were on the car and I was unable to remove them and examine from that side. Jack point seemed to be pretty solid however. Both seats were out, so I was able to look on the inside. The inside driver side has perimeter rust around floor board. There is some evidence of stress in this area as there is a visible crack (see photo). One of the front bolts that holds the drivers seat down has pulled out and/or rusted out. There are some odd bolts that pass through the floor on the rear of the driver seat area. I ran out of time and didn’t inspect that. I suspect it might have been where a harness was attached to the body. The jack point on the driver side seems a bit weak. The passenger side is worse. It has been repaired. It may have been at the same time as the Hell Hole surgery. It mostly consist of a strip of angle iron about 1 foot or more in length that his holding the floor to the longitudinal toward the rear bulkhead/firewall. Closer to the front of the car (not previously repaired), I was able to push a screw driver into the longitudinal. The rail that runs left right (don’t know name for this) was rusted where it met up with the passenger longitudinal. Under the car on that side showed another angle piece that joins the rear firewall and the floor. Two or three additional small pieced of plate steel (a few inches in length in each direction) was probably covering up holes in the floor or was added to increase strength in this area. Jack point on bottom had been removed and a new one fabricated and welded to longitudinal.

If I was to buy this car, I suspect I would be re-doing some of the repair work on the longitudinals as well as fixing items that had not been previously fixed.

The car needs to be repainted and has been sprayed locally in a few places. Most noticeably the front fender replacement and surgery on Hell Hole area.

I don’t want to bias anyone, so I am not going to say what the owner is asking (I think it is on the high side), but I am having a hard time figuring out what the value of the car is. So feel free to throw out some values!

Note angle iron repair

More of the passanger side. Rusted through.

Driver side. Note crack in longitudinal and rusted out bolt hole in floor. Was unable to look behind e-Brake lever.

Trunk

more trunk

Repair right below Hell Hole. Jack is covering up newly fabricated jack point.

Floors are easy repairs....longs less so....what's he asking?

Angle iron and various plates as part of repair to rear floorboard/firewall in passenger area. Sorry, photo is from a wierd angle.

Driver side. Note bolts that might be for harness.

Forgot to attach image. Lets try this again....

Driver side jack point. Jack is covering up, but it is not as strong as it should be...

Another of driver side. Mostly example of typical misc rust (bottom of door)

Last photo... Good shot of firewall and repair on passenger side (in background). There may have been a repair of the clutch cable tube as well. I didn't want to crawl under car due to lack of jackstand, so I am not sure about what might have been done here...

There is alot of stuff hiding in that thing. What you see appears, by experience, to be likely.. 30% of the actual damage.

:\


M

Did you get a battery 'area' shot?

Unless I have already seen it..




M

QUOTE (SEEMORE BUTZ @ Aug 8 2005, 07:43 AM)

Floors are easy repairs....longs less so....what's he asking?

Thanks for the quick look....

I am not trying to be a tease at all, but I am curous about what people think it is worth before I say what the person is asking. They are not giving the car away in my opinion. I will let everyone know after I get a few opinions as well as get a chance to close the deal (assuming I want to move forward on this)

Is this a $1000, $1500, $2000, $2500, $3000, $3500, $4000, etc. car?

QUOTE (redshift @ Aug 8 2005, 07:55 AM)

Did you get a battery 'area' shot? Unless I have already seen it..  :huh:   M

I seemed to end up focusing on the stuff under the car so much that I didn't go back and take a photo of the battery area.

I can say that it looked to me to be very well repaired. It looks like it had been cut out from close to the firewall all the way to to and beyond the suspension pickup point. The suspension pickup hanger (not sure what to call it, but it is the bit with the ear on the end), looks to have been spot welded on, so I assume it was an entire piece that was cut out and replaced.

Oddly enough I was less concerned about that part of the car than anything else and I totally expect it to be the worst part of the car.

I'd say a $500 - 1000 tops...

and most of that price is the core 2.0 motor...

if you are a welding MACHINE... may be a good project. unless you really live to weld, get a better start elsewhere

I am scared of it.

The suspension ear repair scares me. I don't like the method of other repairs, too quick and dirty.. tells some tales. The owner's attitude, not fixing a 'clutch cable problem' and letting that all happen.. hmm.

Yikes.


M

There is more rust than meets the eye. What I have seen is not unrepairable, but you need to be able to fix it yourself make this purchace possible. You start paying someone to fix that and you could buy a new car.

As to "how much?"...it's a roller, no matter what the owner claims was done to it. $1000.00

If he wants more, tell him to get it running. (replace old gas, replace deteriorated fuel lines/ vacume lines, ect). That will bring the value up and you will have a way to see how strong the engine is.

QUOTE (redshift @ Aug 8 2005, 08:03 AM)

I am scared of it. The suspension ear repair scares me. I don't like the method of other repairs, too quick and dirty.. tells some tales. The owner's attitude, not fixing a 'clutch cable problem' and letting that all happen.. hmm. Yikes. M

Owner comes across as a non-914 expert. Someone who is not into DIY, enjoyed driving the car, but farmed out all of the maintenance to local shops. The car was also the daily driver at the time it was parked. I suspect it was becomming a maintenance headache and another daily driver took it's place and it just sat as we all know they tend to do when people intend to fix it one day, but never get around to doing it.

What's it worth? that's EZ....max 1,000 as it does not run if THAT....

Question is....what does HE think it's worth?????

Ok, enough people are playing along and guessing and since everyone is so far in the $1000 ballpark...

Owner is looking for $3500 which I agree is too much considering it doesn't even start. I think the problem is that it was running when it was parked. It doesn't matter that this was 16 years ago. I told the owner that if they were to spend some money to get it running, it would greatly improve the chances of selling it. I don’t think that is going to happen.

I am not so proud that I will not embarrass myself and say that maybe I would have considered going as much as $2000 tops. I guess I was wrong on that one.

I will say that while I don’t know how to weld or use a plasma cutter, I am going to learn. So becoming a “welding manic” is not a problem for me. Actually I am sort of looking forward to it in a sick way. But I just don’t want to buy a car at the wrong price. I may offer the owner $1000 for the car and see what happens.

Thanks for any comments and feel free to keep them coming as I am going to watch this thread.

Be prepared to walk away if he refuses your offer. It's worth $1000 TOPS.

leave him your phone number......that way you might get a call when his vision clears up

QUOTE (Richard Casto @ Aug 8 2005, 12:39 PM)

Thanks for any comments and feel free to keep them coming as I am going to watch this thread.

NEW Club Rule: DO AS WE SAY, NOT AS WE DO.

You could buy a sorted out car for about 2k more than he's wanting, and have it shipped for another around $1,500... save thousands, be happy now, and not end up with an overtly expensive restoration, that is a repaired piece of crap.

What if it was 6 years til you got it on the road?

If he will take $400 for it, it might be good to scavenge parts from.


M

I'll go along with the $1000 max cash value, but it could easily take a year of your spare time to get it on the road, and a tremendous amount of money and work. The crack is the result of driving a rusty car hard.... not good. It will never be a great car....... too late.

If you have the means, you will be wayyyy ahead to spend $3000 on a decent driver that has few or none of these issues, and you can focus your efforts on more cosmetic and performance items. Much more fun and satisfying that cutting half the car apart to fix the rust, and less expensive.

QUOTE (seanery @ Aug 8 2005, 09:49 AM)

Be prepared to walk away if he refuses your offer. It's worth $1000 TOPS.

For roughly $3-4K, you can get a running, basically rust-free (relatively speaking) decent car on the West Coast that few would be embarrassed to drive, and transport to the East Coast is roughly $1500. If you don't mind a project (and if you're looking at that car, you must not), you could get a non-rusty roller here for $1000 or less. So, use that as your guide. Plenty of people out here can look over the car for you. I'd be happy to examine any car in the Bay Area, and I'm sure there are at least a half-dozen other people on this board who would do the same.

Here's where to look:
Craigslist

Richard-
Where is this car located? I know of a couple over here in Wake Forest that are a bit better than that...and a lot cheaper. I'd have to agree with the $1000 mark.

Damn dude, I didn't know you were this eager to get going!!!

I know you had told me you were looking for a long-term project car, but from your pics, this may not be the one. Looks like lots of cobbled together repairs, not sure what may be lurking beneath 'em. I am sure there are some much more solid examples to be found around here. Robert Plank's car is real solid, and he picked it up for only slightly more than you were considering on this one.

Are you going to the NCAC this weekend? I'll hook up with you there, maybe get a better idea of what you are looking for. The more eyes you have working for you, the better.

Oh...and I'll have a bunch of -4 parts available this winter too....the 2.4 is on a pallet in the garage patiently waiting for our last points AX in Laurinburg Oct. 9.......

QUOTE (jdogg @ Aug 8 2005, 09:22 AM)

I know of a couple over here in Wake Forest that are a bit better than that...and a lot cheaper.

Hook me up man! Stop me before I do something stupid! Anything that is in easy driving distance, I am going to try to look at.

QUOTE (jdogg @ Aug 8 2005, 09:22 AM)

Damn dude, I didn't know you were this eager to get going!!!

Sort of a recent development. Tina and I decided it was time to start shopping, so I am seriously looking. Also looking for a Miata for her. Next year may be my last in STS if I am lucky!

QUOTE (jdogg @ Aug 8 2005, 09:22 AM)

Are you going to the NCAC this weekend? I'll hook up with you there, maybe get a better idea of what you are looking for. The more eyes you have working for you, the better.

I am not going to be at NCAC this weekend, but will be at the 8/21 THSCC event the weekend after. If you are there, we can talk. Or PM me here or on the THSCC forum!

you will have $5k into that kar before you know it. at that point it may be drivable. parts car to me. keep looking.

k

QUOTE (redshift @ Aug 8 2005, 08:53 AM)

There is alot of stuff hiding in that thing. What you see appears, by experience, to be likely.. 30% of the actual damage.

the patch on the *underside* of the long below the hell hole means the battery acid had eaten it's way through the top AND the bottom of the long.
that is usually not a very good indicator ...

also, the floorborad to long rust either comes from standing water inside the car or the previous hell hole rott has made it's way forward inside the long.

either way, if you buy that car, i'd strongly recommend cutting that whole long open to get a very good look of the inside.

simply patching over the holes will not stop the rust, just buy you some more time ...

if you really like the car otherwise, i'd say $1000 MAX ...
Andy

Run Dude.... he's at $3,500 and your around $1,000 ( per all of us genius').

That looks exactly like my car. I guarantee that there is 60% more rust damage than what you can see. All that and it doesn't run

Yes I bought mine in that condition... two differences my at least started (bad fuel pump relay fixed for $5.00) and I only paid $300.00 for it.

As of today I still have less than $1,000 bucks into it, not done by any stretch of the imagination mind you but you'll have to see (teaser for a soon coming progress thread).

Run away

QUOTE (Richard Casto @ Aug 8 2005, 09:39 AM)

Owner is looking for $3500

i paid $3500 for my car.
running 1.8L with flares and 7" wheels, good tires. nice body kit. minor rust.

of course then i dumped $15k+ into it ...

but, point is, it was running and the body was in good shape ...
Andy

$3500 should get you a solid body, whatever shape the rest of the parts are in.

QUOTE (Richard Casto @ Aug 8 2005, 02:12 PM)

Sort of a recent development. Tina and I decided it was time to start shopping, so I am seriously looking. Also looking for a Miata for her. Next year may be my last in STS if I am lucky!

Brilliance. Sheer Brilliance!!! Get your wife involved and receive unconditional blessings on purchasing new play toys!!!

I'll see you in Greenville for sure, hopefully Tarheel can bring back some wood from the NCAC this weekend.

I just drove by one of the WF cars I talked about, it was gone. Evidently it is sold. The other WF car is fairly solid, and is a runner that can be had for around 1K with lots of spares. It is going to require a fair bit of to get it right, but not as much as the one you posted here. We'll talk more at Greenville.

Another gold plated rusty piece of crap in the barn story....run don't walk AWAY.....

QUOTE (GWN7 @ Aug 8 2005, 08:08 AM)

As to "how much?"...it's a roller, no matter what the owner claims was done to it. $1000.00

QUOTE (jdogg @ Aug 8 2005, 12:19 PM)

We'll talk more at Greenville.

Jason,

I don't know if you have time or not to discuss prior to Greenville autocross. I emailed you my phone numbers. Give me a call if you can.

Richard

run; richard; run!

yeah run dude, that suspension ear scares the hell outta me....

but then again i drive a 914 with rust all through that area---still strong tho.

it held up a 250# guy jumping up and down on my passenger side footwell.

I am pretty sure I am going to pass on this car. Thanks for all of the feedback!