After having done a rigourous cleaning, repainting, "resealing", I poured oil into my T4 after reinstalling only to see a bit of it start dripping out again

Ha Ha haven't driven an aircooled engine for 6 years now and forgot all about the stinking oil leaks

Which brought back my idea of putting in an "in family" engine, but stepping up from 1930's technology, into the 80's or 90's. These 1.8T engines from Audi have received a rep as being very solid, and good torquers in "stock" form, without touching boost. Has anyone had the opportunity to take a measuring tape to them to see if they are too long or not to fit in the engine bay? Are the bellhousings on these engines compatible with the watercooled VWs from the 70's/80's/90's(ie. same bolt patterns)?

It had been done in a tube frame car and at least a couple of folks here are doing it in stock chassis cars right now, I'm sure they will chime in. It will fit and I'd use the Passat / FWD A4 tranny with Boxter cable shifter for nice shifting and proper gear ratio. Can't wait to see these on the road...

Brian,

Though I'm doing a V8, I often think about how nice a swap this would make. If you get both the 1.8T motor and trans, you'd really have a nice modern drive train. I believe that the Audi transaxle output flanges bolt right up to 911 CV's. There's also the possibility that the radiator can be mounted in the engine comartment; you'd have to look into it. You'd probably have to convert to a cable shifter like the 5 speed Boxster (same trans). Also, there's lots of Audi tuners out there, so HP should be no problem. Perhaps another option, would be the opportunity to use the Tiptronic transaxle if the electronics for the motor/trans are stand alone....would make a neat 914, IMO. Get out a tape measure, and go find an Audi.....I'm betting everything would fit.

Andy

sorry to hi-jack, but andys i PM'd back about the 2.0L

hi andy,

I had considered the idea of keeping the cooling system in the engine compartment after I saw that GEO 3Cylinder Prizm engine setup done awhile back for a 911 where it was all selfcontained within the confines of the "sheetmetal". It would make for far more convenient removal for servicing, and I wouldn't have to "molest" the 914 body for coolant lines.

Thermally speaking, I think it is feasible, except I would be inclined to "reverse flow" the coolant air in the 914. It seems to me, the low pressure area created behind the rear window would tend to pull air UP from the bottom of the car, rather than compel it to flow down. Intalling fans on the lid, and situating radiators near the lower section of the engine compartment should provide decent flow.

I hadn't considered the transaxle also, as that would get into another whole project of fabrication and mounting. I think making a bellhousing interface plate (to the 901) is much easier than coming up with new transaxle mounts, shifter linkage and brackets, etc, I'd want to keep a manual transaxle configuration any way you slice it. If the Audi engine NEEDS to "talk" to its manual transaxle to operate properly, then I'd entertain the additional "grief", only because dealing with a computer and harness modification would be hell. The 901 is good for 200-odd ft-lbs torque, and the stock 1.8T is rated nearly so. That's already almost twice the torque of the T4's which would make for big smiles for a long time.

If you have to swap a trans to, plan on losing the rear trunk, or at least most of it.

I've been tempted w/ the 1.8Diesel. Be a GREAT commuter car

The Passat/A4 transaxle is apparently very similar to the Boxster transaxle, so this path is already being followed by others. You won't be a lone pioneer. A cable shifter wouldn't be hard to fabricate. You do have to deal with axles, but that's being worked on.

For an NA engine, an engine compartment radiator has been proven to work (see Scott Thacher's Soob conversion). For a turbo engine, esp. with an intercooler, space starts to become a problem. I agree that the flow from under the car to up and out the engine cover is the way to go. With appropriate ducting, you could even arrange a chimney effect. However, fitting enough radiator and intercooler area to keep a turbo engine happy will be difficult, esp. if you tuned to engine to the 225hp level rather than the 180hp level. One avenue I've thought of is using the rear trunk area. If you sacrifice the rear trunk and remove much of the floor, then replace the panel between the taillights with a grille, you should get a lot of airflow from under the car out the tail and up out of the engine cover. The rads/intercoolers/etc, would all be mounted above the transaxle, where there's lots of room. No long coolant lines up to the front, and you get to keep the front trunk intact. You'd need to rig up some exhaust heat shields to try to reduce the pre-heating of the air by the exhaust, but those can be attached directly to the exhausts, and mostly out of the way.

QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Aug 9 2005, 11:02 AM)

If you have to swap a trans to, plan on losing the rear trunk, or at least most of it. I've been tempted w/ the 1.8Diesel. Be a GREAT commuter car

huh??

I guess if you do it the "wrong" way and use the standard VW FWD transaxle, the Audi (not a TT) gearbox goes the "correct" way.

I'd say use the audi gearbox, sure it would be fairly easy to make the adapter plate for a 901, but the flywheel would be a pain.

Sonu's conversion is using the 1.8T with the Audi gearbox, for axles early 911 units worked (bolted right up I think)

A few years ago someone back east swapped in a turbo 4-banger dodge motor and mounted the radiator "sideways" next to the engine...claimed it worked okay.

QUOTE (Mueller @ Aug 9 2005, 10:17 AM)

huh?? I guess if you do it the "wrong" way and use the standard VW FWD transaxle, the Audi (not a TT) gearbox goes the "correct" way. I'd say use the audi gearbox, sure it would be fairly easy to make the adapter plate for a 901, but the flywheel would be a pain. Sonu's conversion is using the 1.8T with the Audi gearbox, for axles early 911 units worked (bolted right up I think) A few years ago someone back east swapped in a turbo 4-banger dodge motor and mounted the radiator "sideways" next to the engine...claimed it worked okay.

My bad, thinking FWD VW stuff, not Audi stuff

My bad

Brian,

The engine to trans adapter plate may be more of a challenge than mounting the Audi trans (unless KEP already makes something, but you'd pay $$ for not just the plate, but the flywheel/clutch/PP/TO bearing). With the Audi drivetrain, you'd already have the whole package. If you look at the Audi/Passat model 012 5 speed, they have a pretty adapter-friendly bolt pattern on either side at the rear, so making something to fit the 914 trans mount should be relatively straight forward.

If you bought the engine/trans as a package, the ECM would be part of the package. It would likely have some benefits....one, would be a VSS, which would make an electronic speedo swap using the 911 speedo a nice option. Another *might* be an ECM controlled electric fan output....speculation on my part, as I've never seen the pin-outs on an Audi/Passat ECM. FWIW.

Andy

Good points are mentioned about the electronics (i.e tach, engine trouble light, etc). I believe I would NOT attempt this in my current '76, but instead do it in a non-emissions '75 and older.

IF the Audi follows the watercooled VW bellhousing, then there already exists the adapter parts via Kennedy, or VW itself (South African Vanagons w/ Audi straight 5 engines), as well as the VW diesel Vanagon. Flywheel would be a pain to fabricate from scratch.

So the "stick points" in using Audi trans are basically pickup points for transaxle, and probably, custom drive shafts if nothing off the shelf matches the length/spline requirements.

Not looking to reinvent the wheel. Goals would be to NOT molest the 914 in any way if possible, with "bolt up" fabrications rather then anything requiring welding/hacking the body.

Of course, buying a Fiat X1/9 or Toyota MR2 or even a (shall I say it.. Fiero) would get me effectively the same thing functionally, I just don't like ugly cars....

you cant turbo a 914 or put the radiator in the engine bay

the suby motors are in the family in my mind, flat 4, and the design is based on the vw flat 4's

and the adapter is proven already and i have had a few people who owned 914 years ago (many years) think it was stock when they looked in the engine bay

If your going to go with a 1.8t...i'd use the audi fwd transmission. They can be had for as little as $350 if you look around and bolt up to the 1.8t engine (of course) and no need to waste money on parts to mate to 914 trans. Correct gear ratios and all.

During my searching I dound that early 911 axles will bolt up and fit almost perfect...I may need very thin spacers but i'm trying it out right now with just the axles. My goal was to build it with the least amount of special (custom) parts and keep as many off-the-shelve parts as possible.

914 1.8T.. sounds like you've been there done that.. you have PM!

thanks

Welcome to my world......

KEP makes the trans plate adapter and the rest of the eng/trans adaption peices.

You can use the 901, as I am, but your ultimate driving goals may want to include the Audi tranny consideration.

I had my 901 beefed w/intermediate plate, and a Quaiffe installed to take advantage of the low end torque of my 1.8T.

The rear firewall is the interfearing part of the sheetmetal.
I'm prettysure modifying the tranny mounts will let everything shift forward enough. Mine is using the stock pickup points, and I have about 6-7" room between the firewall and engine on the bottom, and a few less up top.

I'd considered using Boxter radiators in the back as well,
but went with a single up front from my old MR2 turbo.

Revo now makes a software flash to bypass the imobilizer in the ecu, and i'm in the process of getting a program from them to let me eliminate the cat, secondary air injection, and evap purge.


Kevin

QUOTE (okieflyr @ Aug 9 2005, 06:18 PM)

Welcome to my world...... KEP makes the trans plate adapter and the rest of the eng/trans adaption peices. You can use the 901, as I am, but your ultimate driving goals may want to include the Audi tranny consideration. I had my 901 beefed w/intermediate plate, and a Quaiffe installed to take advantage of the low end torque of my 1.8T. The rear firewall is the interfearing part of the sheetmetal. I'm prettysure modifying the tranny mounts will let everything shift forward enough. Mine is using the stock pickup points, and I have about 6-7" room between the firewall and engine on the bottom, and a few less up top. I'd considered using Boxter radiators in the back as well, but went with a single up front from my old MR2 turbo. Revo now makes a software flash to bypass the imobilizer in the ecu, and i'm in the process of getting a program from them to let me eliminate the cat, secondary air injection, and evap purge. Kevin

Havn't talked with you in a while. How's your project going...close to up and running yet?

Currently only running in my dreams, but she is fast!

Been working on the GT replica portion (fiberglass flares),
and the roll cage. Looking to mount the motor back in soon, and start all the auxillery wiring and plumbing this winter.
My hope is that I'll be driving next spring, but it will still be a work inprogress, just off the jack stands.
Kevin

QUOTE (okieflyr @ Aug 9 2005, 06:18 PM)

Welcome to my world...... Kevin

Welcome to the 914 conversion world Kevin!

Just added you to the "list", see my signature...

QUOTE (914_1.8t @ Aug 9 2005, 11:49 AM)

If your going to go with a 1.8t...i'd use the audi fwd transmission.  They can be had for as little as $350 if you look around and bolt up to the 1.8t engine (of course) and no need to waste money on parts to mate to 914 trans.  Correct gear ratios and all. During my searching I dound that early 911 axles will bolt up and fit almost perfect...I may need very thin spacers but i'm trying it out right now with just the axles.  My goal was to build it with the least amount of special (custom) parts and keep as many off-the-shelve parts as possible.

Come on Sonu, tell them you're going to have set's of linkage adapters made for the fwd tranny...

If you make CV spacers, you can probably sell a bunch of those too. If you don't I just met someone who's father has a machine shop...

I may see you this weekend if you're home, I've still have to pick up a engine harness in Hayward.

Brian,
If you're changing to modern powerplant, you might as well go modern transmission too...

right now i'm putting a g-60 in my 914, its almost the same as the 1.8t, minus the 20 valve head. Its a fair bit easier than the 1.8t because it's supercharged. I have also ran into problems with the rear trunk, but i'm just going to notch out a small section and run my boost tube straight down off the throttle body then across to the intercooler. Where to put the intercooler was also a bit of a problem, but i've decided to cut in behind the drivers door and run air into it via a mr2 scoupe and fan. I helped build a 1.8t scirocco, that car is crazy fast it will out run most cars its, hard to imagine that in a 914. I hope to challenge my friends scirocco with my 914 g-60 but the only advantage i have is rear wheel drive, that 1.8t revs so quick that a 901 would be useless, we blew his old o2o tranny right out of the car we couldn't shift the car fast enough it would bounce off the rev limiter