I'm putting in a 327 chev into the old 914 and would like to upgrade the Axles and CV joints. I had some info on this but cannot locate it. I seem to remember using Bus axles and 930 CV joints, or was it all Buss axle/cv?
Can anybody come the the rescue? A friend with a 914 v8 went through many CV's and I want to do it right the first time.

Gary S.
72 914 w/ Chalon kit
327 chev with converted 4 speed 901 and 73 sideshift

ok, 1st, welcome to the club.

second- lets go through a logical thought process on this.

ill ask you "whats the weakest link in your current method of getting the power to the pavement?"
you say "The CV's and AXLES"

now, what happens when you beef up your weakest link? what is NOW become yuor weakest link????\
YOUR EXPENSIVE TRANSMISSION

i dont know about you, but id rather break CV's than have to rebuild a trans.......

your mileage may vary
Aaron

i'm know expert on 914 v8s, but i agree with aaron. the cv and axles look to be fairly stout as long as their in good shape and not worn out.

they don't look like they will handle abuse, ie burn outs and clutch drop launches. neither will GM 10 bolt axels. also they car its self can't handle the abuse of the above, this would twist up the unibody and cause tearing and cracking of the spot welded seams.

so enjoy the power with out the shock and awe of the burn outs and hard launches.

QUOTE (messix @ Aug 10 2005, 08:39 PM)

so enjoy the power with out the shock and awe of the burn outs and hard launches.

i've got a V-8 and don't have the axles upgraded. Unless you plan on smokin the tires ALOT i don't think you need to upgrade from stock.

And if you do plan on smokin the tires you better have a garage full of Trannys or upgrade to a 915

Just give them a head start off the line. you'll still pass them before you get out of third gear

I'm on my third tranny and my first set of half shafts. I don't think they axles are that weak.

I on the contrary...

am on my 1st trani and my 3rd cv replacement....

One autox run and BAM.. blew it up....

must be my massive amount of tq (haha, or lack there of.....)

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...cv,and,v8&st=20

Goes to show you how different every car is. Comp dyno puts me at 284 hp and 330 ft/lbs

I broke two axels on two different occasions with a stout little four. It all comes down to the amount of traction you have. Even the GT2 (twin turbo?) will twist the input shafts on the transmission. But Sway-Away can make some axels that will work with 930 CVs. Bus Axles are larger than stock 914 and I believe they are the same size as stock 911 joints. The 930 would be the stoutest pieces but you will have to do something about custom or semi custom stub axles.

QUOTE (Brett W @ Aug 11 2005, 03:44 AM)

But Sway-Away can make some axels that will work with 930 CVs. Bus Axles are larger than stock 914 and I believe they are the same size as stock 911 joints. The 930 would be the stoutest pieces but you will have to do something about custom or semi custom stub axles.

Whoa, I havent heard about this combination. What all is involved in this one?

CAll Sway-Away and get some axles custom made. They stock different splines for the beetle and sand rail guys. I want to say they are about 250 a pair. You just get the same splines as the 930 joint and any length you want and go from there.

I've advertized these before in the classifieds and had no takers, but I'll mention it again in case anyone's interested. I parted out a six conversion a while ago and removed a set of 911 rear axles, matching hubs (5 bolt), stub axles, CV's, and transmission drive flanges. These were all up and running on the converted car and are early 911....very beefy stuff. I'm told to use these properly on a 914, spacers are needed because the 911 axles are a bit shorter than the 914 axles. I've also been told that they'll work just fine as-is (they were running without spacers on the parts car). Can someone give a definitive answer to this question? I've also got some 911 non vented rotors and M calipers to go with 'em.
The first reasonable offer takes all.

-I think your right about the weakest link aspect. I can see clearly now,
-I'm "staying stock" and buying an extra CV, tools and grease for the road. And yes I'll apply the power and shift smoothly but with "determination".

Bottom line is I'll spend the money on Hydraulic Clutch setup instead of Axles.

-Thanks for the welcome into the Club! I've been working on this car upgrading for the last 25 years and it's nice to have a group to bs with.

QUOTE (goose2 @ Aug 11 2005, 10:47 AM)

I'm told to use these properly on a 914, spacers are needed because the 911 axles are a bit shorter than the 914 axles. I've also been told that they'll work just fine as-is (they were running without spacers on the parts car). Can someone give a definitive answer to this question?

the 911 axle shaft is about 1" shorter. it'll work fine if you intend to run your 914 on the racetrack only.

it's pretty easy to imaging what will happen if you hit a bump on the road with a axle shaft that is 1" too short.
it puts the CVs under "preload" as they're already almost fully extended with the car just sitting there ...

that's why i went with the 944 CVs and the stock axle shaft ...
Andy

just something stupid to add....

instead of using constant velocity joints, why not use spicer universal joints???

QUOTE

i dont know about you, but id rather break CV's than have to rebuild a trans.......

okay, and a "what if"............

"what if" the drivers side CV breaks @ the transmission flange side of things and "what if" you are moving and now the flailing axle decides to get "intimate" with the starter, knocking it clean off the transmission...of course when it does this (and it does happen), you'll now have to repair a transmission with a broken case...and if the transmission was mounted to a /4 or a /6, good chance the back of the case will suffer as well

Gary:

You got a lot of responses....is your head spinning?

I hope I can pull it all together in a clearer picture:

1) It all depends how you drive! I have a friend with a 300 HP 350 and he's pretty tough on the 901 and it has not failed nor have the CVs. His approach is to have 2 extra 901 trannies as spares: they are cheap at about $250ea.

2) torque is what breaks trannies, not HP. Since the 327 is such a revving engine, I would suggest camming to the high-end for HP rather than low-end torque. This will save the trans! If you drive like a ROAD RACER rather than a DRAG RACER, you will probably never break anything this way.

3) The 911 half-shafts ARE shorter than 914 units. As I remember it is something like .400" per side. So in using 911 half-shafts and spacer plate is required.

4) Sway-Away has a LOT of goodies for the sand-rail world and they LOVE the 930 trans. They have a number of offerings using 930 CVs and a good one is with the transporter half-shafts. I would suggest talking with them about YOUR application and see if they can make a set of the RIGHT LENGTH half-shafts & 930 CVs (avoiding the cost of spacers)

5) The problem with the 914 is that it uses a smallish CV, but to make it worse only 4 bolts with pins for the last 2 positions. The 930 CVs are a great answer, but they also
require a 6-bolt 911 flange on the swing-arms or use adapter-spacers. More parts to chase. The early 911 flanges ('69 and earlier) have the same dimensions to fit the standard 914 hub bearing and thus a conversion can be made to 911 parts.

So, WHAT TO DO? I'm thinking the cheapest way to go would be to build a hi-revving 327, drive like a PRO Road Racer with UP and DOWN-shifts (you know: heel & toe and double-clutching) and see what happens.

If that doesn't work, get out the check-book!

Best of luck,

Terry

QUOTE

the 911 axle shaft is about 1" shorter. it'll work fine if you intend to run your 914 on the racetrack only.

Thanks for the clarification Andy...it would seem pretty simple to machine a spacer to go between the tranny flange and the inner CV, yes?

About the "weak link" idea....I don't think I'd like a broken axle flailing around tearing up my exhaust, oil hoses and stuff...and as Mueller says, it could do some serious damage to the trans anyway, maybe the case too. I've also heard of cars "vaulting" over a broken axle on a curve. Scary stuff...maybe best to just leave it on the jackstands

as for the stock axles, make sure they're in good working order and they should last you a long time ...

- repack the CVs with grease, don't cheap out, the more, the better!
- clean the threads of the CV bolts before you torque them down correctly!
- ALWAYS use a new CV gasket
- ALWAYS use new "rippled" washers for the CV bolts. every time you brake them lose, new washers!


if the CVs are tight and don't have any play after you repacked them, you should be good to go ...
Andy

PS: most of the time, the CV doesn't actually brake. it's the bolts that come lose. altought i have seen broken CVs.
i have *never* seen a broken axle shaft ...

dana spicer universal joints connected with regular halfshafts.....

QUOTE

Thanks for the clarification Andy...it would seem pretty simple to machine a spacer to go between the tranny flange and the inner CV, yes?

this is the route I think I'll be going...I am keeping my car 4-lug, so I see no real benifit from the 944 solution (except easy to find 944 CV's)....what sucks is that I use to have a pair of early 911 complete axles and I thrashed them thinking I'd never, ever find a use for them

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Aug 11 2005, 07:36 PM)

dana spicer universal joints connected with regular halfshafts.....

CV joints are better due to the angles involved....you'd also have to have a 2-piece axle with Universal joints or transmission input shafts that "floated"

QUOTE (Mueller @ Aug 11 2005, 08:44 PM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Aug 11 2005, 07:36 PM) dana spicer universal joints connected with regular halfshafts..... CV joints are better due to the angles involved....you'd also have to have a 2-piece axle with Universal joints or transmission input shafts that "floated"

hmm...

well it was worth a try anyway. parts are el cheapo...and survive tremendous loads.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Aug 11 2005, 08:04 PM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Aug 11 2005, 08:44 PM) QUOTE (bd1308 @ Aug 11 2005, 07:36 PM) dana spicer universal joints connected with regular halfshafts..... CV joints are better due to the angles involved....you'd also have to have a 2-piece axle with Universal joints or transmission input shafts that "floated" hmm... well it was worth a try anyway. parts are el cheapo...and survive tremendous loads.

i've broken them with small block Fords....nothing is bullet proof....

just seems like a good idea over here...

CV joints are a much better design. U joints wear out rather quickly. They also "normally" live between the trans and the final drive, so they see 1/4 to 1/3 the torque.

i agree...but a person just can't walk to FLAPS and buy a new CV axle for a 914 anymore....

You can still get them rebuilt, or upgrade to better CVs. I bet it's cheaper to upgrade CVs than to devise a ujoint setup. (remember, the length of the shafts changes with suspension movement.. Ujoints don't do that)

Check out this site for CV info.

http://www.blindchickenracing.com/How_to/C...les_and_cvs.htm

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Aug 11 2005, 08:16 PM)

i agree...but a person just can't walk to FLAPS and buy a new CV axle for a 914 anymore....

okay, then you'd have to pick a universal joint that will never go out of production and would be stocked "everywhere" with that logic.......does not matter what kind of car you drive..there will come a time when you have to special order parts....times change and so does the stock room at the auto store....besides, how often do CV's fail?? not very often......with cars this old, it's either have spares or deal with having to have parts delivered.....

hmmm.....

i haven't really spent any time looking for universal joints....

i did find out that my flaps has rebuilt axles for 100 a piece...

Another axle option, not sure you guys may be aware of. Todd Francis at Precision Alloy Ltd. can modify standard stub shafts to make T2 CVs a bolt on deal. Fit a set of 33 spline SAW axles and you're good to go. The SAW axles are supposed to be a bit more "springy" than standard, providing a little more "give" for absorbing torque.
This isn't the lowest dollar solution, but it would get rid of adapters, provide a stronger readily available 100mm CV and a little more give in the axle dept.
Todd did my 914 trans output stubs for about $100 - excellent work and delivered with a nice and new looking black oxide finish. I don't see why he couldn't do the same with the outboard stub axles.

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Aug 11 2005, 04:56 PM)

QUOTE (goose2 @ Aug 11 2005, 10:47 AM) I'm told to use these properly on a 914, spacers are needed because the 911 axles are a bit shorter than the 914 axles. I've also been told that they'll work just fine as-is (they were running without spacers on the parts car).  Can someone give a definitive answer to this question? the 911 axle shaft is about 1" shorter. it'll work fine if you intend to run your 914 on the racetrack only. it's pretty easy to imaging what will happen if you hit a bump on the road with a axle shaft that is 1" too short. it puts the CVs under "preload" as they're already almost fully extended with the car just sitting there ... that's why i went with the 944 CVs and the stock axle shaft ... Andy

I thought it was ok to run the shorter axles, is Brad's info only applicable to racing?

Where can you get a hydrolic clutch setup or does it have to be custom?

QUOTE (Neo914-6 @ Aug 12 2005, 11:47 PM)

I thought it was ok to run the shorter axles, is Brad's info only applicable to racing?  :confused:

not good unless your shock travel for the street is about 1" or so and you're never ever going to hit a bump ...

brads quote:
"We have raced the cars for years without the spacers."

on a racecar, you don't see as much shock travel, plus the road surface on a track is usually less bumpy than the average CA highway ...

i wouldn't recommend to run a axle that is 1" too short on the street. for obvious reasons.

but hey, it's your car!
Andy

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Aug 10 2005, 08:18 PM)

ok, 1st, welcome to the club. second- lets go through a logical thought process on this. ill ask you "whats the weakest link in your current method of getting the power to the pavement?" you say "The CV's and AXLES" now, what happens when you beef up your weakest link? what is NOW become yuor weakest link????\ YOUR EXPENSIVE TRANSMISSION i dont know about you, but id rather break CV's than have to rebuild a trans....... your mileage may vary Aaron

Hi, Gary welcome to the club.

And Aaron, I just wanted to say, very Logical statments concerning beefier axels and cv's and tranny's.

And, as for universal joints, couldn't keep them in, the mid engined SBC (302) powered corvair, and when a U joint went, that drive shaft would scare the piss out of the dead, and when it stoped flopping around in the car, the car would drop where it stoped and wouldn't roll any more.

thanks for the insight....

I didn't think about the actual stresses involved...