Does anyone have a modern compressor installed in a 914?

If so, I'd love more information on this.

I run a shop that specializes in automotive AC systems and my play-toys all have killer ac.

https://granburyautoac.com/

I'm planning a 134 conversion that uses a condenser behind the bumper and I need a modern compressor to make this work. The bumper has to be either a fiberglass replacement or something else (space reasons). I'll be using a modified 916 front cap.

The square York style needs to "leave the building"...

Any suggestions?

Ice Auto Air makes a compressor kit for the TypeIV VW engine. I have used it for years. It is a great, comprehensive kit that fits really well.

http://www.iceautoair.com

It bolts in the same place as the original York boat anchor and uses a serpentine belt to run the compressor.

Hope that helps!

Does anyone know of a source for rebuilt York boat anchors? For originality if no other reason.

Yep. I use Yellow Rose rebuilders when I cannot buy new.
Been in business forever. A bunch of old car guys doing the rebuilds.
Good guys. Only rebuilder I trust.
I am not sure if they will do Yorks but I will be finding out as I will have our original compressor rebuilt and store it for a future owner.
At one time you could buy internal parts for a York. Modern compressors only have seal kits available so a "Rebuilt"-or "Remanufactured" compressor is complete bullshit.
Resealed is the proper designator for the reman stuff.

http://yellowrosedistributors.com/

I go new OEM (commonly Denso) and donate all of my cores to Yellow Rose so they have lots of compressors to snag internals out of.
It is usually cheaper to replace a whole compressor nowadays than to install a clutch so a bunch (50%) of my cores are perfectly good.
Makes for good relations with your rebuilder when you bring them 2-300 lbs. of decent cores.

Yes, I know cheap Chinese clutches are available. I've had too many problems with Chinese stuff to put them on a customer car.

Mine own stuff is a different matter...

[/quote]

Ice Auto Air makes a compressor kit for the TypeIV VW engine. I have used it for years. It is a great, comprehensive kit that fits really well.

http://www.iceautoair.com

It bolts in the same place as the original York boat anchor and uses a serpentine belt to run the compressor.

Hope that helps!
[/quote]

Thanks, that is just what I was looking for. I'm super busy fixing ACs (in February!) but I will be calling them. Changing to a serpentine is a MAJOR improvement in my book...

[quote name='technicalninja' date='Feb 15 2023, 01:51 PM' post='3058301']
[/quote]

Ice Auto Air makes a compressor kit for the TypeIV VW engine. I have used it for years. It is a great, comprehensive kit that fits really well.

http://www.iceautoair.com

It bolts in the same place as the original York boat anchor and uses a serpentine belt to run the compressor.

Hope that helps!
[/quote]

Thanks, that is just what I was looking for. I'm super busy fixing ACs (in February!) but I will be calling them. Changing to a serpentine is a MAJOR improvement in my book...
[/quote]


I am in Hurst, near DFW airport if you want to come by and see one of the kits. I have the engine on a stand in my garage.

OH, thank you soooo much!

Yes, I do want to see that.

Being out of the car is substantially better.

I will also get to see what they are using (brand) for the compressor.

I am INCREDIBLY brand specific regarding compressors...

I will PM you for contact info.

Im a newbie here, but this is my new favorite group of teener resources. I am also local to DFW. (Live in Granbury) and am currently waiting for my restomod to be completed. (work being done by Werks11 in Temple) and will want to get around to visit y'all once the car is finished.

Like other TX drivers, the A/C is a big deal to me too, especially for a summer drive.

Y'all need to come to Mayo Performance in Euless on Saturday. It is a local PCA gathering of Porsche people.



I will be there with our original six. Right now my six conversion is down getting the oil leak fixed, but it will soon be back up and running.

My dad knew Zim and Mayo when they worked for Green Oaks Porsche Audi 50 years ago. My dad was a salesman. Zim and Mayo were technicians.

I used "Zim and Mayo" for my first 70 914 (tranny issues) in the early 80s.

Zim and Mayo changed to just "Zim's" decades ago.

I always wondered what happened to Mayo.

Now I know...

@ClayPerrine
Clay, can you post a photo or two of your Ice Air compressor installed in your car?
I am curious if there are any weight differences between the Ice Air compressor and either a York or a Sanden(I have a Sanden).
My idle drops when I turn my a/c on, so my idle rpm is set a bit higher to accommodate.
For those with a/c, where are you pulling vacuum from to assist with this issue?

The motor is not in the car. It was in our 914 that was hit. The body is in the body shop, and the motor is on a stand in the garage.

It is a lot lighter than the York compressor, and it doesn't pull as much horsepower.

To keep the idle speed up, I used a fuel tank switching solenoid from a Ford pickup plumbed in parallel with the decel valve. When the compressor is on, the valve is open. I put a restrictor in the line with a small hole in it, and kept enlarging the hole until the idle stayed steady when the compressor was on.

There is a picture of it somewhere on this site. Unfortunately, with the car disassembled and in the body shop, I don't have any way to take a picture of it.

Clay

Still a work in progress. Buying a new house that needs work is delaying the finish of this project.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=353794&hl=

Mark Sonners and I are trying to figure out an elegant way to put AC in his 2170 that is at PMB Performance. Chasing the nonelectric compressor. Lots of great ideas including @Larry.Hubby ideas for air controller in stock airbox. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=316728&hl=

One thing is not to put the compressor on Eng in the place the aftermarket guys did for the Porsche dealers but, Thinking of using parts like they are using for 912E Porsche set up. It would go in the same place as the smog pump went in the 75 and 76 cars but without the sacrificial rubber pulley that always breaks when the smog pump freezes and are not only expensive but used ones seen to need new bearings and the parts are very hard to get. This picture shows parts from one of the 912E kits and I think of just using what is shown circled in red. If my bad memory is working, I remember one of our members making these parts but they can be bought from one of the custom / hotrod AC shops.

What do you guys think of this set up on a 2170 type4 end with Webbers?


Best as always,

Bob B Burton


Click to view attachment

Wonder how I missed this thread.

Sanden compressor. Used by all the Hot Rod AC sellers. They come in a few sizes and mounting points. There is also a generic bracket made for them that can be modified for 914 use. Over the fan is probably the best location if you can make an extended pulley.

All the underdash assm are made in China so no need to spend extra at a Hot Rod specialist for "theirs", it's not unique or better.

Seriously think about mounting the cond under the engine lid. The majority of cooling comes from the fans anyways.

Bob, whatever you do make sure the compressor is a real Sanden.
Sanden "style or type" means a Chinese copy.
Sanden stickers are normally green. UAC stickers are solid blue.
UAC is Chinese crap...

Sanden compressors are NOT expensive. Here's one from Vintage Air for $230...

https://www.vintageair.com/custom/product-p...hp?pn=04808-VUA

You can get it polished for another $55 or chromed for $120.
If you look close at the pictures on the VA site, you can see the green stickers.

Do a bit of searching and I bet you can find a real 508 for less than $200.

Sandens are drop dead reliable. The 508 is the single most adapted compressor in history. Mounting one as you have suggested has been done many times. I found threads this forum regarding exactly this.

You can get a 508 with many different drive pullies and many different end caps (where the hoses connect). This model is definitely the most adaptable compressor that I am aware of.
 
This is an old school cycling style compressor that has enough load to be obvious when it cycles. I want to avoid a cycling style compressor if possible.

I'm hunting a variable displacement compressor. All of the new cars have changed to a computer controlled variable displacement, but manual variable displacement compressors were around first.
The GM V5 and V7 compressors were some of the earliest.
VAG had a bunch of these in the late 90s/early 2000s.
These compressors never turn off...
They just vary their displacement as the system requires.
This is seamless and the engine speed doesn't change nearly as much as a cycling compressor installation.
At idle you cannot tell it's on...

A computer-controlled compressor requires a PWM driver, multiple sensors, wiring harness and programming.

The mechanical style requires NOTHING! Many came with direct drive break-away pullies and didn't even have a clutch on it.

I'm also trying to mount it under the tin on the right side.
I haven't found one that can be turned backwards like the York can.

My current thoughts are 4 rib serp belt from crank pully to 8 rib idler bearing.
Second 4 rib belt to 4 rib compressor pully. This should allow me to offset the compressor enough to work.


For Cris914n6

The real cooling DOESN"T happen when the fans are on...

On a 100 degree day running the engine at 1500 rpm with both the cars fans on high and a BIG ASSED shop fan also on high will result in high side pressures at 250 on a well-designed system and 325 on something average. This is in the shop with the car stationary.

Run that same car at 40 mph and you will see 125-200.
Run it at 75 and the numbers will be 100-150.
You get 5280 CFM per square foot at 60.
A Chevy truck has about 6 square feet of exposed condenser.
At 60 you could have over 30,000 CFM going through the condenser.
This is enough airflow to cool a 10-unit apartment block.

The fans are only needed below 20 mph.
If the fans are on at all times you're doing it wrong...

My 914 already has the normal aftermarket AC installed and I'm planning on using two modern condensers stacked on each other and the biggest fan I can stuff in the box.
The box might get modified for more room as I am moving the spare tire to the back trunk.
Multiple condensers are a good idea.

I may stay R12 as the high side pressure never exceeding 300 PSI is a good thing.


HUGE SAFTEY TIP!!!!

If you change to R134 you HAVE to install a high-pressure cut-off switch. Most R12 systems didn't have one. The compressor clutch should be disconnected somewhere above 400 PSI (425 is a common switch point). Failure to install a switch could end badly!!!

Most R12 systems have a low pressure cut off switch installed on the receiver drier.
Two-way switches are common nowadays. I can buy a two way that installs exactly like the original 1 way and gets the job done fine. A two way might be labeled "40/425" so it breaks contact below 40 and above 425.

Be careful of "transducers". These are actual pressure reading devices that give the computer high side pressures. They are very accurate (and how I know what high side pressures look like at 75mph) but they CANNOT be used without the computer control components.

You want a simple two-way high-pressure switch for a R134 914 conversion.

Let's agree to disagree peacefully. Sounds like you are mixing analog car ac and ultra modern digital engineering. None of us regular folk will be using always on variable compressors controlled by a computer. It will be basic 80-90s tech. Fans will be on when the AC button is on.

I'm going to try to fit a non-computer controlled variable discharge compressor from a late 90s VW as a direct replacement for the normal York compressor. I will REDUCE the wiring, not complicate it more.

I decided to fit the simpler system so that enthusiasts like are on this forum can easily use this themselves. Simpler is usually more robust and dependable.

Fans should be set up so they run anytime the high side pressure is above 160 and if you have a two-speed fan second speed happens at 200 psi. Below 160 they should be OFF and you will find anytime you are above 20-30mph the high side will be less than 160.
Those numbers are how the average Japanese/German car from the 80-90s work.
Often the German cars had a temperature sensitive switch in the liquid line and they didn't use pressure, but it all worked the same.

2-way pressure switches for fan control are readily available.
Trinary (3way) are as well. You can buy a trinary that can handle both the low and high cut out and also have a fan output as well. None of this stuff is new. It's all from the 80s or older.

Almost nothing had the fans on all of the time...

The 75 T4 car I have will stay simple, I will re-use much of the original Dealer installed AC system. It will be modified using the easy button. It will be done so others can copy it without much trouble.

The 76 916 clone I have will have a "full monte" PWM system on it, but it will be a water pumper and the compressor will come with what-ever motor I will end up using.

With both cars I will expect to be able to freeze people out of on a 100+ Texas day with the top off...

My favorite complaint is "turn this bitch down or off, I'm too cold."

Eagerly following from Austin (Cedar Park actually) with my BLACK 914 2L, affectionately known as, "the sweatbox".

Did you ever get your original York compressor rebuilt by Yellowrose?

No I haven't yet.

I'm a one-man shop (wife and dog are support) and I have been SO busy that I've finally just flat closed for the holiday season yesterday.
I'm showing "GONE" till Jan 15.

I've talked with Eric at Yellow Rose last month when I dropped off 100 compressor cores.

He's hunting small variable displacement compressors for me and said he should be able to re-do a York but parts might be iffy.

I'd like to redo the York. One of our close friends, Louis O'quin, (son of Green Oaks Porsche Audi owner) advised these worked fine back in the day.

I want to see just how well but I'd stay R12 with the York and I really need the compressor brackets off of my teener to start the conversion process.
I only have the one bracket assembly.

I really should get another one...

Hey @Morrie!

I'm the bahia red '74 you might have seen tooling around. I've seen a flat black 914 buzz down RM620 a few times. Was that you?

I also have an Aftermarket AC in mine. Top-mounted my compressor driven by an aluminum stand-off pulley.

Sincerely,
Fred

Here's a pic of my compressor set-up prior to install. This is a Sanden 508. The compressor mount is from Doug (dlee6204). I had a buddy with a lathe produce the stand-off pulley.

Click to view attachment

That's the easiest and most straightforward way of skinning this cat.
The 508 is the most adaptable compressor and the compressor itself is one of the most reliable on the market.

Didn't you have clearance trouble with the firewall pad?

I want to try and keep an aftermarket compressor either in the original York mounting location or (better IMO) directly under the tin on the same side.

Having the Sanden in the middle up top will affect ideas I have for an EFI fuel system.
I need the space...

If you have no plans for this area this way is probably the most logical path.
It will be damn sure the easiest to install!

That Sanden has enough volume for a medium sized SUV...

The 4 rib serp belt is well done. I'd have spaced that compressor backwards (if possible) so the belt would ride on the forward section of the clutch pully.

Yeah, I'm not saying this is the best way to do it. It's just "a way" to do it. The top-mount has it's challenges too. You've got limited space b/w the firewall in front and the oil fill reservoir in the back. I cut a small square out of my firewall pad to make sure there wouldn't be any problems. Going any further back with the compressor makes issues with the Oil Fill. I have seen things done here by others to provide a more "rearward" mount. With all that said, my current project is an LE with dealer A/C. I plan on buying a new compressor and implementing the traditional side-mount.

I will trade you a side mount for a Sanden compressor for this one. I will even pay for shipping.

Clay

I'm reading that he has two cars...

I would actually like to see both mounts.

Clay, even if you trade him, I would really like to see the side mount Sanden bracket for a York/Sanden swap.

Does the bracket orient the Sanden in the same direction as the York with the clutch facing the rear of the car?

The Sanden will have a much shorter life if driven in reverse.

The York compressor appears to be the only automotive based compressor that doesn't care about direction of rotation.

They all will pump in reverse. (reciprocating only! -vanes/scrolls don't pump backwards).

The thrust bearings in most compressors are directional and will not properly control thrust in reverse.