I'm having trouble tracking down sway bars from 75/76 cars.
Lots of info about 74 and earlier...

Did Porsche install factory sway bars on the later cars?

I have an extra nice 75 that did not have factory sway bars.
I have a semi nice 76 that did not either.
My ratty 73 2.0 has both!

I worried about making sheet metal changes to the 75 due to its originality.

How did Porsche do it?

Is there a non-body cutting way to install a front bar?

Thanks for any info, tips, pointers to threads, etc...

additional cost option on the last years as a cost cutting method...

I believe all of the 73 model years would of had the bars
but as the cars were becoming more expensive... the factory dropped some of the equipment from standard and made them an extra cost option so they could slightly lower the price of a base model. (sway bars, appearance group packaging)

Supposedly 76 MY (late 75) cars were "loaded" IE 2.0L with all options but in reality it was parts bin time, with whatever was left on the shelf as the factory was drawing down the 914 & ramping up the 924/928 with a sprinkling of 912E thrown in.

I believe my 75 has the appearance group. I have center console, fog lights/dual horns.
I don't believe it has the sports group.

@JeffBowlsby website.

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm

nothing in literature i've read describes a different sway bar for 75/76.

EDIT
it definitely was not standard equipment on all 74 1.8s
you had to tick the option box.
some got them, some didn't.
mine did, option box ticked. specifically.
as for 2.0s ask jeff bowlsby.

the surgery to install an OEM/factory bar is not what i would describe as invasive.
the wheel arches are already pressed with an indentation you drill out for the front bar and the A arms already all came with tabs for the drop link connection. the bar runs under the fuel tank inside the front cavity.

the rear bars are not particularly invasive either. i would have to look under mine again but its a couple of bolts to the underside. the bolts do not come through trunk floor.

@technicalninja

here is a 76 on BAT archive.
COA verifies sway bar option.
extensive underfloor photos.
i'm seeing the same sway bars as my 74, nothing different.
(i did have a thought that maybe cat exhausts and EGR on late models might have fouled original sway bars from earlier cars as a result of your comment, but not so.)

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1976-porsche-914-50/

Factory bars are straightforward to retro install.

The front bar reqs R/R of the fuel tank and holes drilled through the wheels and bolted brackets and the A-arms need to have facotry U-brackets on them (not all do) or they also need to receive new brackets. There used to be bllot on aftermarket front bars where no drilling was requied but I have not seen those for awhile. Check around if that interests you.

The rear bar requires brackets that should be welded on under the trunk and reinforcement plates that should be welded to the trunk floor inside, but there is no cutting involved.

The front bar is the most important of the two for overall handling performance, some AXrs run without a rear bar.

Rear bar brackets for the 70-74 are different than those for the 75-76 due to the rear bumper shocks.

My 76 came with front & rear bars but w/o appearance group. I have no owner history.

another one of those PET inaccuracies!
only lists one A arm type - shown with bracket included.
but you are dead right, just looked up a 75 1.8 on L jet research file.
no sway bar and no U bracket on front A arms!

EDIT
i could be wrong about this but i think the idea of the rear sway bar is the factory coupled it with the softest of the three springs. it was a comfort idea? softer riding and the sway bar compensated for that. otherwise stiffer springs used. at least this was the case with mine when i went through rebuilding the suspension a few years back.

If you meant the brackets that required no "welding" on the inside JP Dansk now makes reproductions.

You kinda corrected yourself. The 75/76 cars don't need the reinforcement plate as the bumper shock reinforcement handled it. The rear "bracket" is just a weld in plate with 2 nuts.

Same factory swaybars for all 914s. Non swaybar 914s don't have the front arm tabs, but the arms are fairly easy to come by -- or weld on tabs.

911 SC & Carrera underbody swaybar fits. You need the 911 arms/torsen bars, or weld on loops. You will need to drill holes to mount the brackets to the crossbar. Drawback is the smallest one is 20mm which is thicker than stock thru-body.

Thanks for the reply. I'd really like to add the front bar first and just see if the rear bar is really needed. I am using 140lb springs in the back at this time.
I'm most likely going to install the front bar from the 73 (may never run again anyways-organ doner!) and do it very carefully trying to re-create what Porsche did in the first place. Seeing a late car with factory equipment eases my apprehension a bit.
The control arms on the 75 do not have the shackles for the front bar installed so I may just use everything out to the 73...

And I FAIL at multi-quoting again!

And here's the stupid question...

The 73 which has the bars I'm wanting currently has a 1-piece fiberglass "buck" for the front end. Until my father finishes the bodywork and makes a "splash" mold (read cheap non-stiffened mold to make 2-3 better "bucks" from) I do not have access to the front trunk area.
This buck used 944 front wheel arches and a 1988 Fiero GT nose.
My dad is the guy responsible for the raised letter ABS rocker panels and has been making fiberglass body parts for longer than I have been breathing...

The question.
Can the front bar be removed from a stock car without accessing the fuel tank area?

The 75 has full access for the install.

yes

factory 16 front 15 rear 72 914-6 optional

factory 15 front 16 rear 73 914 2.0 standard equipment

factory 15 front 16 rear optional 74-76 all 914s

kits now available from Dansk, but you will have to weld in brackets and reinforcements (in the rear trunk) not worth it on a nice car

although @technicalninja has a 75 so the upper reinforcement is not needed?
any welding would be on underside to attach bracket fixing - so less of an issue in terms of messing with a nice car? about equal to install of front bar and changing away from original.

though i tend to agree with you, if i had a nice original condition car i wouldn't mess with it. just leave it alone. enjoy the contrasting driving and put the sway bars on the less nice 75.

The front bar on my 74 2.0 is also missing and no tabs on the arms, previous owner did not click on the option, and I really think will change the overall driving feel of the car, please let me know when you install it to yours.
Elephant racing sells also the part.

The front sway bar makes a major difference in cornering performance and feel. Well worth it.

The rear bar makes less of a difference--and stiffer rear springs can do almost the same job that a rear bar would do.

The option was for both bars. AFAIK, none were delivered with only one bar unless there was some mistake by the factory.

Some 73 2.0s do not have sway bars, either due to being special ordered that way or some other odd circumstance. Those are quite rare cars.

--DD

Mine is the same 75 1.8

although its been 30 years since i drove one that did not have sway bars.
it was a 6 actually. my humble 1.8 handled a lot better i thought.
quite a bit of cornering lean without them. i can remember that.
the owner of that 6 installed sway bars front and rear in it and copied his euro 2.0 to do it. he was used to his 2.0 and did not like the feel of the 6 without them.
he used to attend organised hill climbs back in those days.
so it wasn't just subjective preference. the cars are better with them or something equal to them as a set up.

also agree that stiffer rear springs do much the same thing as a rear sway bar.
in terms of handling, if tweaked up right.
the difference is in ride quality. that rear bar let them soften the rear purely for comfort i believe.

i got nothing to complain about with the factory sway bar set up.
either handling or comfort for everyday street use with occasional bit of give it to it out on country roads. and i am running bilsteins which are notably firmer than original boge shocks.

If you need pics, let me know where (specifically)

75-76 appearance group, and both F/R anti sway bars
All original

FYI, I have owned two 73's that had no sway bars but had the brackets on the control arms. Now something could have been changed in the last 50years but thinking these were both delivered that way based on rest of car.

john

My 76 came with appearance group but no sway bars, although front control arms had the tabs. I mounted a factory front bar as done on earlier models and it made a significant difference in handling.

I have some photos that show the location of the rear swaybar brackets, top and bottom, and the installed rear swaybar. On the underside you can see the 2 brackets welded on outboard of the transaxle mounts, small tabs with 2 taped holes. In the interior of the trunk, in primer, you can see the 2 top tabs welded on for added strength for the swaybar brackets. Hope the photos help. Actually very minimal welding.


Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Everyone always assumes stiffer spring rates = better handling but this is not always the case.

Softer rear spring rates in the rear (with bar for roll control) also get you better handling. Especially on a narrow tire with tall sidewall.

Compliance of the wheel vertical travel is a good thing. Too stiff and the tire doesn’t tolerate bumps well, losing grip when it becomes “overloaded” when encountering bumps.

Think of the suspension spring and the tire carcass as two springs in series. In this situation, the softer spring has to be compressed to some degree before the larger spring will even deflect. In an extreme case, the low rate spring will need to go to coil bind or full compression before the larger spring deflects at all. Don’t allow the tire spring rate to be tiny in comparison to the suspension spring rate. No good at all.

And here's a car that is substantially cleaner than mine!
That work is exquisite!

Rotisserie to clean up the bottom is in this car's future as well.

How did you recreate the factory look with the seam sealer?
To me it looks like the factory used pressurized application out of something similar to an undercoat gun. Mine is in excellent shape and I'm planning on not disturbing it as it looks like a PIA to get the "splatter pattern" correct.
That car looks "over" restored.
Just exquisite to the point of not being able to drive it anymore.
A piece of art...


I am aware of how to install the tabs on the rear and the fact that the latter straight tabs look crappy vs the bent tags of the earlier cars. If I do the rear I'm planning on using the early bent tabs if possible. I am aware that the later cars already have strengthening in the trunk floor for the bumper shocks and the early bent tabs will take some massaging to work properly. Pretty good chance I'll not do the rear.

Great info from you all. The tidbit on all factory installation having both bars is very interesting.

Thanks
Rick

So true...
If you look at the Italian cars of the same era you will notice softer spring rates and more compression dampening vs cars from other countries.
With the stock sized tires this works great.
You put low profile tires on an Alfa spider and the handling goes to shit unless you also change springs and dampening characteristics.
It all works together in my book...

@technicalninja - Thanks; it is a driver and not a trailer queen. I just try to take care of it.

@Superhawk996

i always like getting the full story from you.
i've got the lot then. handling to boot with comfort thanks to soft springs/s bar.
it definitely has the softest of the 3 factory springs and thats the way it came.
and i'm riding on tallboy XAS - such soft rubber, its got no grip problems.
probably equal to a 195+ in more conventional everyday compound.
it feels like it driving it.

the only thing that is tweaked is the tyres.
no way were XAS this sticky back in the day.
these current ones are designed to wear out from maybe 10,000 kms of hard use.
i reckon.
anyway its all back to stock and like new with bushings etc done.
set up level.
and it makes you realise how good these cars were straight out of the box.
in 1970!!!!!!

My 76 was not equipped with factory sway bars but did have front sway bar brackets on the a-arms. I added H&H sway bars later. The front bar drop links fit the a-arm brackets with no problem.

beginning to think they just put whatever they had stocks of on the cars at the karmann factory. if they ran out of A arms without brackets they probably just reached for the bin with the bracketed arms. the only ones that really mattered were cars with sway bar option ticked. not only for the arms but also for the rear trunk bits welded into the body shell right from the get go.

if you look in the PET catalogue though, they only list one arm type.
and the diagram that goes with it has the brackets on the arm.
so i'm guessing the spare part was reduced to one type to keep it simple.
and probably only cars on the production line received the arm without the bracket.

this would have also made them more money at the dealers if an owner came back and asked for sway bars to be fitted after purchase.
you would have to buy new a arms as well as the sway bar parts.
$$$

Yes the car undercarriage is actually nicer than my car in the upper side.

My '73 also does not have any sway bars, but the control arms do have the tabs for them.

I think 73 2.0l's had sway bars stock, but it was optional on 1.7's.

Earlyish 74 (9/73) has tabs but no bars.
I added the front with 160 lb. rear springs - works well, but I have the rear bar and mounts on my shelf too, so I think I will try softer springs with a rear bar this year.
Thanks @Cairo94507 for the pictures of where/how the rear bar mounts - that is a big help as I now do not have to go digging for them!

If you like the front bar from your '73 in there(16mm- I know you will), their was a 19mm 911 bar that is a slide in replacement. Those mounts can also be had from 914 rubber.