Hello all,

I think that my gearbox might need a rebuild but needs confirmation for you all with more experience

First, the facts:
-car is my 1974 1,8l, side-shift gearbox, total mileage unknown, no bill about any rebuilt.
-Short shift from Martin Bott in it since ~3000kms, adjustment fine, never had issues.
-all bushings are 2 years/5-6000kms old so quite new
-Gearbox-oil is ~2500kms/8 months old

The issues I encounter:
-since I own it, it NEVER was possible, from 2nd to 1st to downshift while the car is rolling (by impossible I mean impossible without huge grinding).. The PO told me at that time that it is like that with all 914s, never checked and trusted him but unsure now is it true? Since I own it I always put first only with the car not rolling, otherwise stayed in 2nd gear. .if the car is not moving, no issue at all putting first gear (or reverse), no grinding,..

-since the last 2 rides (40kms?), I have grinding issues putting the 2nd gear downshift or highshift. Increased and at the beginning I thought it was when the car was cold, now I don't think so and it happens every ~2 of 3 shiftings
3-5th gears are absolutely fine. And as I can select them fine and without any issue, I assume clutch and shifter setting to be fine, do you agree ?

-it seems to be a couple drop under the gearbox, but nothing big. Can't think that a small leakage could cause such issues, what do you think?

My plan:
-put the car on the lift, check every bushings and linkage adjustment
-if I see any issue: bushes, leakage,... I will fix it and try
-if good..Happy me
-if not..gearbox out and rebuild

What are your thoughts on my issues?

Thanks

Antoine

Defiantly refresh any linkage issues- makes a huge difference in usability.

But your issue sounds similar more like the clutch is not fully disengaging. Check that adjustment first if you have not already.

Pete

Oops, forgot to mention, all bushings are 2 years/5-6000 kms old..so should be ok.. but will check them!

Antoine

I would check clutch adjustment first, even go a bit past where you might normally go with the adjustment. So far as leakage, look at the speedo drive and selector shaft, both reasonably easy fixes. This also assumes the linkage is in order.

Thanks, I will check it as a first!

One thing I feel unsure: how does a clutch adjustment could affect only the 2nd gear and not the others?

Thanks

Antoine

Difficulty in R AND 1st?

No! The first gear comes without grinding only if I am not rolling but always was the case.. (but should it be like that?)

I have never attempted to put the trans in 1st while moving. Try engaging 2nd before going to 1st.

You should be able to select 1st gear while rolling to a stop or going slow- I can. Good luck, Michael

Tighten your clutch

There is no syncro between 2nd and 1st for down shifting. You cannot power shift, you must idle and align the dogs to engage without clash.
A number of 901 gear boxes have difficulty shifting to 1st at a standstill, a little bit of roll helps the dogs to engage.
Up shifting with gear clash 1st to 2nd might indicate a rebuild, down shifting 3rd to 2nd with gear clash is a strong indication that you need new syncros. Shifting from neutral to reverse with gear clash is usually a clutch problem. Your issue is probably clutch adjustment related, your clutch needs to be adjusted perfectly to determine if the gearbox is at fault.

While you are checking things, look at your pedal board too. Sounds strange but mine did not have the correct hardware and started to move around. Then I found the clutch adjustment was not correct after that was sorted. Then I found some hardware was missing at the clutch end too. After chasing all of that it got better. Look at them as a whole system and go through all of it.

Thanks a lot for the support !!

I won't have access to a lift until tomorrow evening but I just slide myself under the car and tightened the clutch (which looked a bit loose) and checked the bushings. All are looking good..but the "pointy screw" holding the two selection bars together at the joint near the firewall was a bit loose! So I also fixed it.. I will do a short test drive tonight, I will keep you all informed on the result !

Bests

Antoine

grinding with a loose clutch cable occurs first at a standstill in first reverse and then as it worsens the higher gears

no grinding in first and reverse at a standstill, but rolling downshift into first means first gear is bad (dog teeth and slider


HOWEVER check the transmission oil level first 80/90 weight


rare instances, the clutch disc is beginning to shatter, or the pressure plate is cracked

Hi,
there is of course a synchro for downshifting into 1st gear. You only need it for downshifting, what else for? If you shift into 2nd from 1st the synchro unit of the 2nd gear does this job!
You must be able to shift from 2nd to 1st whilst still driving about 20 km/h. That requires good synchro unit. If I write good synchro unit I mean synchro ring, synchro sleeve and also dogteeth.
Nice to hear that you use my shifter!!! Thanks for buying it.
If you need some more info about the problems with the gearbox, feel free to call me.
Martin Bott
Bott Fahrzeugtechnik
www.bott-fahrzeugtechnik.de
Instagram: bott_fahrzeugtechnik

Agreed on this. Right as you're about to come to a stop, but while rolling, you should be able to slip it into 1st.

i agree with all of these, and i just had this issue this past weekend, and it was that the clutch was not fully disegauged as either the newer cable was stretched or the nuts had loosened slightly since i just put the motor and transmission back in the car 2 weeks ago. I was having a heck of a time trying to get it into gear from neutral even with pedal to the floor, and just barely letting it out it was already moving forward. Tightened up the cable a bit and immediate difference was felt and no issue with grind going into 1st from second.
i would ask, how far out do you let the clutch pedal before it starts to engage and move if you are sitting flat and stopped? I think it should be about 1/4 of the total travel before you feel that happen.
Phil

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the information. I definitely can't shift from 2nd to 1st whilst driving above 2-3km/h so there is an issue there for sure.
I will certainly come back to your offer and call you.
Concerning your shifter, I already told it in my build thread but that is certainly the best thing I bought for my 914!! The feeling, the position closer to the steering wheel, the quality and look (without the leather bag!), I just love it !

To all: thanks a lot for the support.

Clutch cable tightening yesterday did not bring the expected, still grinding 1-2 or 3-2, even if a bit less often. I will check everything again tonight and keep you informed!

Antoine

I had that issue when I bought my car. It was bushings. Especially the bush on the transmission. Also, realized that going from 2nd to 1st needs to be steady pressure while the car is slowed down to a steady jogging speed. Any faster and it will bind.

@TRS63
Would you mind adding your car info to this thread?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2969526

Is your car an original German spec or a US import?

I was hoping something like that but truth be told, all my bushings were replaced not long ago. First inspection lying on the floor showed nothing there but I will inspect it better on the lift! Thanks!



Would have been a pleasure to contribute but in fact..my car is already in the list (4742920421), as I did contribute to the original post

Bests

Antoine

I also agree with those who would focus on a clutch adjustment. Could be a simple and effective fix. You'll need a couple of 11mm wrenches.

i dunno.

i never force mine into 1st on a downshift. because i never go there if i can help it if rolling. i adhere to the f piech plan of mass destruction and stay in the H pattern while rolling along.
but if forced to stop at those things that are illuminated i just pull up and slip it into 1 while stationary after a slight pause.
or gun it through a give way sign in 2 having determined there is nothing of similar mass i will run into.
i don't really do the go slow enough to drive in 1.
must be a european street scale thing? pottering in 1?
down here in australia we don't do that as a general rule.

if i don't wait for the gearbox to do whatever its doing before i go get reverse i will get a crunch.
i always wait with the clutch in for a second or two before going for r from 1 via n.

your clutch probably needs adjusting.
and your gearbox is probably half farked.
but it is half a century old.
just drive around it and keep driving.
its not as bad as a jaguar. even new those cars didn't know what gear selection was.

Because 1st gear has no synchro, the only way to put it into 1st is having the gears line up. That is luck and timing while you are moving.
I don’t try, nor do I try on my 911/915
It’s a pretty useless gear 0-15 mph…..so I wait until I am not moving to put it into 1st.

I agree you should adjust the clutch, it’s yet another cable that stretches, and can get loose in the tunnel, and needs attention at least annually.

I actually slide into 1st just before the car stops to be sure things are lined up. Then after stopping go to neutral and wait for the light etc.

My needed adjustment was the pedal stop. I had it too high and with the car stopped it was impossible to get 1st or reverse without a “grrrranch.”

Pete

I'm pretty sure there is a synchro on 1st gear. At least, when the box was built there was. Might not be by this point in a lot of cars, but ....

--DD

So, I put the 914 yesterday on the lift :



What I did:
-clutch adjusted (and clutch tube checked, but all fine there, I welded it right last year !)
-Oil level checked
-bushings checked (all still good!)

And sadly no improvements..still no issues with any gear change except the 2nd gear grinding 2-3 times out of 4, either by down- or up-shifting.

Well, I think it will need a rebuild for its 50 years, will start that when my beetle is back on the road (interior renewal currently) so that I don't stay without a fun car

Bests

Antoine

Hi,
can it be that you mounted the "Sperrband" (sorry don´t know the English word for it) to the wrong side? If you look on the gearwheel it must be placed on the right side of the gear. I have an old 914 manual where it is shown on the left side, what is incorrect.
Once more: 1st gear has a synchronization for downshifting and these cars were built for racing. And depending on the course it was necessary to shift down into 1st gear and nobody would have spent time to wait until car stands to shift into 1st!!!
The gearboxes that leave my house allow this.

Martin Bott
Bott Fahrzeugtechnik
www.bott-fahrzeugtechnik.de
Instagram: bott_fahrzeugtechnik

Just love your ancient barn, but not too weather tight

I'm with 930cabman, that is a grand barn. Love it.

Antoine,

You mentioned in post #13 in this thread that the " pointy screw" / cone screw was loose and you re tightened it. Did that make any difference?

I had similar symptoms to yours. Adjusted the shifter, tightened the cone screw, went for a drive, all good until after a number of shifts I had to stir around to find 2/3. Got home and found cone screw had worked itself loose only by half a turn but enough to throw the whole adjustment out.

It seems as though I appeared to have the cone screw adequately tightened but I suspect that the tip of the screw had hung up on the taper a little and was not allowing it to seat fullyand it worked its way loose. I backed off the screw, jiggled the shift rod around and re tightened to where I think the screw is fully seated. Got back all gears.

I have subsequently fitted a new cone screw with its nylon button and added some blue Loctite for good measure

Yes, it is recommended to use a new cone screw everytime.