I'm trying to secure a spot in the Runoffs this weekend. A decent finish at Grattan will allow me to attend this year.

If anyone's interested in spectating or helping out, I'm in the 5th run group. 2 qualifying sessions on Saturday and the race is on Sunday. Our race on Sunday should be just after lunch.

Directions and information about the track:
Grattan Raceway Website

It's early in the morning and I'm about to head out for a rainy practice day....

Good Luck Kevin!

Good luck Kevin

Go Kevin!

Kevin,


Git her done! Just remember, this is a points chase, so run strong and stay out of harms way, you need the points, it's all about the points. When I was chasing points , I knew who was in front of me and who was behind, try to make mental notes if you see a car off. If you have anyone helping you, a cheapy dry erase board and some oversize erasable markers will give you a pit board, determine what you need and make sure your pit pal knows whats up. Good luck Run Strong and smooth.

Erik Madsen

Thanks for the encouragement!!

I finished 4th, behind Loshak, Schmitt and Halkias... if you recognize any of those names, it may be because all 3 were mentioned in the Who will win? section of Sportscar for EP.

There were only 5 cars entered and David Wingett dropped out in his TR6 about 6 laps into the race.

I was turning decent times, but not as fast as the front runners for a few laps, but I'm still fighting high CHTs, so I backed off and ran at 8/10s. I ran out of gas on the last lap, so I didn't take the checker. I was trying to see how low I could run it.. now I know.

QUOTE (groot @ Aug 15 2005, 07:08 AM)

I ran out of gas on the last lap, so I didn't take the checker. I was trying to see how low I could run it.. now I know.

I was wondering why your total time was less than the winner's, with 2 laps less as well.

Good job! That 6 points makes a big difference.

CHT issues, I know something about that.

I think I'm in for the Runoffs, not 100% sure, but these 6 points go a long way towards making the case.

CHT cooling...

I backed the timing out to 31 degrees at full advance and fattened the motor up and still the CHTs get too hot by lap 4.

I think I'm faced with having to make a "sewer pipe" type fresh air duct to the engine. I really don't want to do it.


BTW.... anybody going to the Buckeye Sprints????? I'll be there.

After thinking of this problem for awhile now, I really think this fresh air thing is a must do. Especially for the 4 cylinder guys. There is a reason why people fought so hard to make this ruling happen. And I think some of us are running into the problem. The only solution may be to run the 5 inch duct.

Erik Madsen

Great job Kevin. Hope to see you at the Runoffs.

Erik,

I think I'm coming to that conclusion, too. I don't like it, but I think I'm going to try something this weekend.

I know the conventional wisdom is to run a 5" duct, but do you think I would get enough from a 3" duct?

Kevin,
Sounds like you need your DTM before I finish the "REAL" engine... Thats no problem- I have the 914 version all worked out and could get you one by the runoffs.

QUOTE (groot @ Aug 15 2005, 08:31 PM)

I know the conventional wisdom is to run a 5" duct, but do you think I would get enough from a 3" duct?

I seriously doubt a 3" duct would help much, considering the losses from drag inside the duct.
You're allowed up to a 7" dia. or about 38 sq. inches cross section.

Run the sewer pipe. I really want to see which candy assed 914 competitor will protest first.

Yes,

I was mistaken about the 5 inch, you are allowed a 7 inch duct into the fan area, I do feel this is necessary and if my oil cooler packaging was different I would also be doing this. However, I am going to seal up the cooling in my car a little better and see what I get. I have only seen what I consider hot temps on the 6 once, and that was at Watkins Glen, I saw 380 CHT once and thats my hottest Cylinder head, so I don't think that is a problem. I may have to go that way, but it won't be this year.

Erik Madsen

I'm sure someone would protest it this year! Hell we have spies visiting this (no posting though) board running their mouths every chance they get about STUPID SHIT!

The runoffs could be VERY interesting this year if things follow the same candy assed tangent that they have the rest of the season.

I swear its worse than a bunch of 12 year old girls on the phone wth each other..

A 914 hasn't made any kind of an impressive appearence at the RunOffs in 10 years or more. Maybe the 914 guys got tired of the in-fighting and quit.

Since it will take a car that few 914 people have developed lately to win the RunOffs, maybe 914 guys should stop pissing on each other and start helping each other out.

If Kevin has the motor (and relocates his rear suspension mounting points ) he has a possiblity to finish well. Don't know about Eric, the new kid out there driving Kirby's old car could really play hell with the results if he shows up, but that is about it for the 914 guys.

Don't count me in as I haven't found a reason to run a 914 in production. I am shooting for Super Production for now. Pictures to follow later.

I predict that there will be 3 914s in the top ten in F Prod and one in E Prod this year.

The "sewer" pipe isn't going to be protested. The CRB issued a clarification in the spring which was intended to settle that dispute.
On the other hand, aluminum cylinders??... Anybody runnin' with them?

With my fuel cell in the passenger footwell, I can't run a 7" pipe unless I make a removable section to allow access to fill the cell.

It would be reasonably easy to run 2-3" ducts from the turn signal openings... I may try that this weekend, and if it's not enough, I'll try something else. I hate cutting holes in the sheet metal for this though.



Jake-Does the DTM get its cool air from the backside of the engine (in a 914)?



BTW... don't look for me in the top 10 this year.... I'll be trying not to embarass myself. I expect Erik will be in the top 10 in EP....

Oh, yeah... another question, since I haven't looked real close at any of these sewer pipes.

Should I seal the duct to the fan housing?

QUOTE (groot @ Aug 16 2005, 08:49 AM)

It would be reasonably easy to run 2-3" ducts from the turn signal openings

Double check the rules on that. I think you are not allowed to have ducts outboard of the wheel centerline.

The DTM inlet is on the back side of the shroud, so a pipe from the front is not feasible.

I don't think the duct needs to be sealed at the fan inlet.

If you're going to do the "sewer" pipe do it right. I've seen air ducts on race cars that look like a 5 year old did it.

1. Use HVAC sheetmetal for the pipe. You can get it a Home Depot but they may not have 7". Try a HVAC/plumbing supply house. It is smooth on the inside and will allow the air to move through it with very little friction.

2. Use as little flex duct as possible. The flex duct isn't smooth on the inside. You can get 45 and 90 degree bends in sheetmetal duct.

3. Use the real HVAC sheetmetal tape not the cloth racer tape or "duct" tape. The real duct tape is silver and has a "AHSE" printed on it. It is much stonger than cloth tape.

4. The sheetmetal duct is made with a crimped end to fit in the next section of pipe and be taped. I would cut the crimped section off and butt the pieces together and tape them. Makes a smoother transistion.

I see a lot of HVAC duct work in my projects (hospital construction). I'm doing a surgery addition to a hospital now that has 7 OR's. You should see the ductwork in the ceilings. It's a shame we have to cover it all up.

Paul

Chris,

The ducting outside of the centerlines is not allowed for brake ducting.... That rule is under the brake cooling section.

Paul,

Good input... Can you come up tomorrow to help? Kidding, but I do wish you were closer to help out. I really have a package problem. I'd like to run a hard duct from the front, but I don't know where I can do it. Fuel cell is right next to the shifter, so there's no room to pass the duct.

Kevin,
You have the stock cooling fan right now?
How about a sheetmetal scoop that lifts air from under the car along the front edge of the engine compartment?

Can you get a duct over to the passenger door through the bars? I ran a NACA scoop in my door for a while. But had to remove it when my bars got in the way.
This is probably not SCCA legal.

How high to the top of your cell?
Got a picture of the inside of the car?

Paul

There's certainly room over in the door area, but getting to and fro will required some tight bends....

Chris, neat idea... may try that, too.

Kevin are you running the sheetmetal that surrounds the perimeter of the engine bay? The Scoop from the underside is a bad idea. It will pick up too much crap from the track and there shouldn't be that much air flowing under your car anyway. How about you just cut the hole in the fire wall and run a duct into the passenger compartment. See if that helps.

I'm running no engine tin (except for the stuff around the cylinders). As I understand it, the engine tin is for low speed or no speed conditions, where there's no airflow. I'm not overheating in those conditions. I find it hard to believe that I'm getting hot (exhaust heated) air in the fan inlet when I'm going 100 mph, but there could be some strange flow that I don't know about.

I'll figure out someway to run the stove pipe. I hate to cut the hole and then not use it for Jake's DTM cooling system. I can't just cut the hole to the passenger compartment because the rules state you can use lighting openings to supply air, but do not allow you to make your own.

We all know airflow doesn't like to make turns but what if you brought the air in from the headlight through both firewalls into teh passenger compartment and then made a custom flattened, oddly shaped duct that would clear the fuel cell and other stuff. Then do a remote fill for the cell. You could effectively create some sort of nozzle to compress and then expand the air tract. Thus creating a super high pressure area at the fan.

Kevin,
You need MOST of the tin to retain the factory pressures inside the shrouding.... What did you kee? this may be your issue.

I have some tricks for you- email me.

I'm getting ready to do a test day Thursday. My primary objective is to obtain flow-viz and pressure differential measurement in and around the engine compartment. The purpose is to improve engine cooling. I'll let you know what I learn.

Thanks, Chris.

I'm "testing" this weekend, too, but at M-O. I'll also pass on what I learn.