Some of you know that I am looking at a Speedster replica that needs a motor.....most of ya don't care.....but anyways, I figured that you might enjoy reading the answers I got back from CB Performance.....

They have a pic of a complete engine, dyno charts showing off the wall torque numbers and HP...all Type I VW motors....one shows a turbo'd injected motor and says email for a quote......

So like a gud little lemming, I do it....the subject says "how much for a 200hp, turbo'd injected motor??????"

Here's his response....

Take a look at our dyno charts to get an idea of the horsepower range of the
engine you need. Click on DYNO CHARTS on our home page. You'll see that
there is a big difference power output in VW engines.
Pick your power range and I can supply a quote.

Bob
>>>>>>

Um, bob already did that....how much for a 200hp Turbo'd and injected motor? And do ya do T-4s or just T-1s?


Response....

200hp is pushing the envelope for a street engine, but a turn key with dual
44 IDF Webers is $6700.00.

Bob
>>>>>>

OK, Bob....how much for a 200hp Turbo'd and injected motor? And do ya do T-4s or just T-1s?


Response.....

Turbos are a different subject. From our home page click on TURBO STREET
ENGINES. My Spyder is shown, runs on pump gas, turns low 10's and has about
20,000 miles on the engine.

Bob
>>>>>>>>>

OK HOW MUCH??????

Response......

We no longer do the type 4 engine. Type 4 parts are over priced and the
engine is over rated. We build type 1 engines that will out perform type 4's
and they weight a lot less. Our engines are assembled from all new parts.
Type 4's are put together from a combination of rebuilt and new parts as new
cases and heads are not available.

Bob

>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Fuch it......

CB is a type 1 geared biz...they have a way greater (huge) profit margin on a big T1.

QUOTE

We no longer do the type 4 engine. Type 4 parts are over priced and the engine is over rated. We build type 1 engines that will out perform type 4's and they weight a lot less.

This is coming from one of Jakes suppliers

QUOTE

....as new cases and heads are not available.

Ummmm...new heads are available

Yeah, I know they are Type I only guys.....I just wanted to hear what his opinion was on the T-4....

Obviously he disagrees with VW and most 4 cylinder air cooled engine guys.....I mean, the T1 was dumped for the T-4 due to the fact that the T-4 was more robust.....as recently as last year I was able to source brand new T-4 heads....they were pricey but available.

for 7k, no way would I go t1... I'd be on the phone to Jake!


or I guess you could call Berg

Bernie? Pass.....

I've been talking with Jake but he's got a bit of a backlog....debating on waiting in line or freshening up up the MFI 2.4/6 I have sitting that I got off ebay.

I've been busy too and I just got the 911 back after 6 weeks in the paint shop....prolly gonna be shelved and be my winter project....

QUOTE (SEEMORE BUTZ @ Aug 14 2005, 11:17 AM)

Bernie? Pass..... I've been talking with Jake but he's got a bit of a backlog....debating on waiting in line or freshening up up the MFI 2.4/6 I have sitting that I got off ebay. I've been busy too and I just got the 911 back after 6 weeks in the paint shop....prolly gonna shelved and be my winter project....

yea, that was a crack... Jake and Bernie aren't buds, last I knew...


/6 in a speedster... didn't you do that once already?! I think it needs a big 4

no matter what's pushing it, it will be cool as hell!

go sixer.....

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Aug 14 2005, 08:30 AM)

[QUOTE=SEEMORE BUTZ,Aug 14 2005, 11:17 AM] /6 in a speedster... didn't you do that once already?! I think it needs a big 4 no matter what's pushing it, it will be cool as hell!

Frank is a cutdown coupe....this Speedster is gonna be either the one I keep or sell....depends on how it turns out.

considering your time to sell lengths, i'd say owning and selling is sort of the same thing mike.

k

Well....here's to hoping 356s sell quicker.....

Mike,

This guy was selling one on CL a month ago:

1957 Porsche speedster kit new - $6500

born2bfast@comcast.net

the one mike is considering is more bang for the buck. as in more finished, plug and play. just for driving sake mike could stick a 1600dp in the az car and cruise.

k

speedster

Yeah...here's the one I'm looking at....it was running so all it needs is an interior and an engine. May do a brake upgrade and change out the wheels as well....they seem to be Chebby wheels....

Brakes are VW units with drums in the rear...

is the "burned up" engine included in the sale price? what would be included with it if so. carbs and what not? just put trimmed down t-3 units on the back and go cheapo. i bet they are plenty big enough to haul that little car to a stop quickly. i have the old hotvws issue with the tech article when you're ready.

k

a bad ass car needs a bad ass motor...

turbo type 1 grenade.... or a hot six

He offered but I declined....it's a basket case.....carbs are sold, p&cs are toast....case has been cut and relieved for big jugs and a stroker crank.

If ya know anyone he's selling it.......it's down to a T-4 or a the six I have on a packing crate.

You can send me a copy of that T-3 article if ya like.....send me an email and I'll get you my mail address unless you can scan it.

Thanks

I have been inside CB and asked for type4 stuff and got the same response. Called the type4 a boat anchor then explained how awesome their tubro type1 was.
I have ridden in a kit car with their turbo type1 and it was awesome, but it would never stay in tune. Probably the fault of the owner more than anything, but yeah asking about type4 at the counter will get you the "YOUR RETARDED!" look.

then a cool little car for under $10k, turns into a faster cool little car for lots more than $10k aaron. you'll understand when you have a wife, kids, and a mortage. tech moron kevin is fighting with the new, scanner/printer/fax. it would be easier just to mail it to you and you mail it back. prob faster too.

k

v8??

QUOTE

Obviously he disagrees with VW and most 4 cylinder air cooled engine guys.....I mean, the T1 was dumped for the T-4 due to the fact that the T-4 was more robust.....

T1 engine parts outsells T4 parts 10 to1 or more.
For the buyer parts are cheaper and for the seller better profits.
In CB's case it's way bigger profits.

A hot T1 is still a cool engine.

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Aug 14 2005, 12:09 PM)

then a cool little car for under $10k, turns into a faster cool little car for lots more than $10k aaron. you'll understand when you have a wife, kids, and a mortage. tech moron kevin is fighting with the new, scanner/printer/fax. it would be easier just to mail it to you and you mail it back. prob faster too. k

send it on down

AA

Hey Mike,
Why didn't you just explain to the guy what you wanted in the first place?
Cheers, Elliot

i have a type I longblock from CB and just to be fair she will run at 4500 rpm all day long. power is always on tap and the temp hovers around 190 F. 1955cc to be exact. approx 25,000 miles on the engine.

chris

QUOTE (SEEMORE BUTZ @ Aug 14 2005, 09:17 AM)

....freshening up up the MFI 2.4/6 I have sitting that I got off ebay.

I would like that engine for the Turtlegirl project. Hook a brother up.

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Aug 14 2005, 12:12 PM)

for 7k, no way would I go t1... I'd be on the phone to Jake!

AFAIK, $7k won't make a connection with Jake. Was that just the phone call?



M

QUOTE (914RS @ Aug 14 2005, 01:20 PM)

QUOTE (SEEMORE BUTZ @ Aug 14 2005, 09:17 AM) ....freshening up up the MFI 2.4/6 I have sitting that I got off ebay.   I would like that engine for the Turtlegirl project. Hook a brother up.

Once I get the leakdown figures on it....I'll let ya know.

Time to chime in?

http://snflupigus.com/356photos.htm

Engine case (pictured within above) I think is sold to a local guy for use in his beetle. Anyone else interested in type 1 parts pm me.

Mike, you know you have to call me before you'd sell it again

Everytime I open my garage door, get into my 914 and back out I look at it and think maybe I should be selling the 914 instead - LOL - But then thats how I always feel, I wish I never sold my 87 Turbo T-bird, 92 Camaro, 69 Camaro, 91 z71, or 02 z71.... Selling a car you love to improve another or get a new one is always a double edged sword.

And Mike, I measured from the back of the 4sp to the rear frame crossbar... 20 inches. How long is a 6 anyway?

Remounting the trans a few inches forward somehow is probably doable and would give 2 more inches in the engine bay without cutting any fiberglass.

Remember this car doesnt way much at all... 200hp might lift the front tires hehe.

BTW....I must be getting old, because now that I think about it....prior to email....this is exactly how "It" started out on the phone when I got pissed at Patrick Motorsports....but since I am on the same meds as Miles....I'm mellower now.

I just hate it when some dork tries to blow smoke up my ass and not listen or in this case....READ the question.....then act like I'm an idiot because he's too narrowly focused on trying to Fuch me outta my $$$s....

So screw 'em...I'll find someone else who wants my money....

As to T-1s....yeah they can be made to run....I had an 1835 and a 2180 back in the 70s and did the Bug In thing....had a BAD 57 ragtop.

But I don't want a high strung motor....I want a nice wide power band....

I need to fill my perscription...




M

Z , you can take the CB out of Claudes Buggies--but you can't take the Claudes Buggies out of the CB. They will always be a T1 company, that's their founding cornerstone. Leave the Hi-tech T4 research , development and products to guys like Jake
Attached ad circa June, 1976
Marty

QUOTE

Some of you know that I am looking at a Speedster replica that needs a motor

here's a thought .... speedster/WRX .

why is there so much difference in opinion on the t1 engine?

can one bump compression up and make the mpg acceptable?

The company that builds the gizmag speedster is in Australia... I LOVE their rear fiberglass cover vs the cloth tonnau. Their car interior is equally amazing... with the conversion rate

http://www.specialtyauto.com/PORSCHE.htm - Here is a more "local" company that builds them...

and btw... looked into it..

The typical speedster weighs 1600-1800 lbs... - not sure what mine weighs but I'm sure it's something like that. 200 hp puts it at near the same power to weight as a base 05 vette.

1976. $400 a week wages and you were livin' large. blow was exspensive and gasoline was cheap.

k

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Aug 14 2005, 09:03 PM)

why is there so much difference in opinion on the t1 engine?

It's small block vs. big block

The Type 1 can be made very powerful and reliable if done right...but it's only got two speeds...on and off.
Parts are cheap and you can get new hipo heads (from CB) for just over a couple hundred each. You can even turbo it.

The type 4 is a torque monster, better powerband and close to double the HP of a T1 stock, but done right it will be a lot more coin.
You can't turbo a T4

Both can/will die if mistakes or wrong parts (i.e. cheap) are used during the build. Most times an expensive death....

I have SIX brand new TIV cases on the shelf and about 20 pairs of brand new heads..

The TI guys are just out of the loop and in their own world of mass produced, Taiwan made junk sold in vacuum packs and made for 5 cents an hour south of the border!

Thats the whole reason I got away from the TI, everything is junk.

Sure, there are plenty of new TI parts out there but unless you want to triple check every part and still have a weak foundation for the engine.

Thats why I have sold 100 TIV DTM kits in the past year to TI conversion guys for the TI.... People are getting tired of Taiwanese parts and disposable HP.

The TI is great for unlimited HP potential and thats about it, unless its a 1600 S/P engine.

Was that Bob Tomlinson you were e-mailing?
He's a spretty sharp cookie, my guess is that he gets a gazillion e-mails a day from kids and tire kickers and doesn't have time to answer them with any thought at all.
I have spoken with him on the phone before and he was very helpful.

I'd pick up the telephono and tell him you are interested in buying a type 1 with a turbo and electronic injection system and ask for a price. E-mail prolly won't do it. And don't mention type 4s.
Gary Berg is another way to go but get out your checkbook.
Either that or buy it in kits and assemble it yourself and save some $$$

bob wrote the book i frequently borrow from regarding webers. i'm not alone tho, every trouble shooting guide i've read is lifted nearly verbatim. his book is written in a manner that's understandable. is gary the berg that has/had a shop near seattle?

k

There's a Gary Berg, Gene Berg, Bernie Bergman and a few other combos....can't keep them straight.

Was cruising the Samba and a name keeps coming up...G Serrano in Torrance CA....anyone know him?

QUOTE (Sammy @ Aug 15 2005, 07:56 AM)

Was that Bob Tomlinson you were e-mailing? He's a spretty sharp cookie, my guess is that he gets a gazillion e-mails a day from kids and tire kickers and doesn't have time to answer them with any thought at all. I have spoken with him on the phone before and he was very helpful. I'd pick up the telephono and tell him you are interested in buying a type 1 with a turbo and electronic injection system and ask for a price.  E-mail prolly won't do it. And don't mention type 4s. Gary Berg is another way to go but get out your checkbook. Either that or buy it in kits and assemble it yourself and save some $$$

Yeah it was Bob Tomlinson...

I don't buy the he gets a lot of mail every day thing. His comments show that he is narrowly focused on T-1s and he's dissing the T-4 and promoting his own aganda.

I have my druthers and prejudices but I don't refer to four bangers as crap T-1s or 4s...just not my cup of tea...I DO hate four banger oil cooler leaks though....

I'm having fun going down memory lane looking at engines that I used to play with back HS and looking to plug in to the Speedster.

buttzzi, just found the issue. 8/99 . will send priority mail as it's SO collectable, and i have some assurance that it will arrive in sb within the next 6 months. i do want it back. i can't take a good crap without rereading the article.

k

QUOTE (SEEMORE BUTZ @ Aug 15 2005, 08:45 AM)

QUOTE (Sammy @ Aug 15 2005, 07:56 AM) Was that Bob Tomlinson you were e-mailing? He's a spretty sharp cookie, my guess is that he gets a gazillion e-mails a day from kids and tire kickers and doesn't have time to answer them with any thought at all. I have spoken with him on the phone before and he was very helpful. I'd pick up the telephono and tell him you are interested in buying a type 1 with a turbo and electronic injection system and ask for a price.  E-mail prolly won't do it. And don't mention type 4s. Gary Berg is another way to go but get out your checkbook. Either that or buy it in kits and assemble it yourself and save some $$$ Yeah it was Bob Tomlinson... I have my druthers and prejudices but I don't refer to four bangers as crap T-1s or 4s...just not my cup of tea...I DO hate four banger oil cooler leaks though.... I'm having fun going down memory lane looking at engines that I used to play with back HS and looking to plug in to the Speedster.

QUOTE

I don't buy the he gets a lot of mail every day thing.   His comments show that he is narrowly focused on T-1s and he's dissing the T-4 and promoting his own aganda

.

Send me an email about a TI and I'll do pretty much the same thing.... I believe we all have our specialty and should not wander from it one bit. The ONLY other engine I fool with is the 616 engine (356) because they are fun to play with..

QUOTE (SEEMORE BUTZ @ Aug 14 2005, 08:17 AM)

Bernie? Pass..... I've been talking with Jake but he's got a bit of a backlog....debating on waiting in line or freshening up up the MFI 2.4/6 I have sitting that I got off ebay. I've been busy too and I just got the 911 back after 6 weeks in the paint shop....prolly gonna be shelved and be my winter project....

"Berg" and (Bernie)"Bergman" are 2 different entities. Berg is good and overpriced, Bergman is cheap crap at lowish prices. Ya wanna nice (REAL)125HP T1 motor, call EMS. More than Bergman, for sure, and less than Berg, but still pretty big bux. REAL good stuff, from people who race their motors with a great record of success. You want an "adequate" motor, call me. My lower cost supplier sells one, and I've had no problems with the 2 I've sold. The Cap'n

Gene Berg was the father who's shop is in Orange, about 5 miles from my house. He passed on, his son Gary Berg runs the place now.
They are famous for selling gold plated stuff that runs really, really gud, but the prices reflect that.
I remember in the 70's running against Gene at the bug-in in bracket racing. I got up to the finals in eliminator one year, my dial in was 14.4 seconds, his was in the low 12s.
I saw my light and took off, I was almost half track when I saw him lift his front wheels.
He got me by two car lengths at the big end, but he broke out :-)

The car he was driving looked completely street legal, even had a front licence plate and full bumpers. Except for the louder than stock exhaust and the M&H racemasters on back, it look like it could have been driven by an old lady and that darn thing was almost in the 11s, and it was naturally aspirated, that was 28 years ago!

Yeah I remember the Berg's....never was in the money enuff to play in the big leagues...but I do remember lusting after his stuff....but I don't want to have to do a tear down every two years....

Too bad they let yesterday get in the way of tomorrow..... Tomorrows engines are not built with yesterdays ideas

7:1 compression ratio and 40 degs of timing...

That'll make it run great!

Tom

Yeah...... 40 degrees if you are lucky and running 87 octane.

QUOTE (Sammy @ Aug 15 2005, 03:49 PM)

The car he was driving looked completely street legal, even had a front licence plate and full bumpers. Except for the louder than stock exhaust and the M&H racemasters on back, it look like it could have been driven by an old lady and that darn thing was almost in the 11s, and it was naturally aspirated, that was 28 years ago!

Gene had a classic line. He'd streetrace that car, and usually win. One night he didn't, and got beat by a street super stock Chevelle. As they pulled up afterwards they were all happy and gloating, so he said to them, "Yeah, yeah, so now you get to go tell all your friends that you just beat a VOLKSWAGEN!"

And that's why Jake sells so many conversion engines, VW guys wanting a giant killer.

Them were the days. I was in high school, pumping gas at night to pay for the car and insurance.
The big boys at the bug-ins played hard, but they were cool to me even tho i was small time.

The baddest bug out there was a white fiberglass tube framed deal with huge rear fenders and tires. It was a BAE turbocharged bug burning alcohol, IIRC it was running in the 7s.
Thing sounded wild.