Hello,

I am going to drive out and look at a 1974 914 on Sunday. I've had a lot of conversations with the owner and I feel good enough about what I know to make the 4 hour round trip drive to look at the car. I'm looking to buy a solid 'driver' car that I can clean up and have fun with. I am not looking for a concurs or competitive 'survivor' show car. I'm in my 50's so not going to be hooning it around the streets, but would like to maybe try a beginner autocross event.

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I hesitated to post this car here for fear of someone seeing it and buying it out from under me, that's a risk I'm going to have to take as I don't want to make a bad purchase. The car in question is a 1974 Zambezi Green 914 with the original 1.8 motor, trans, and stock fuel injection system in place. The car has been owned by the same owner since 1995. I like the car because it appears sound and mostly original. The only obvious changes appear to be the rear "PORSCHE" reflector between the tail lights and the 'snow shovel' looking front valance/spoiler. Regular maintenance but hasn't been driven much in the past 20 years. The owner has set their price at 20k and have listed it as 'firm'.

I'm assuming the front spoiler isn't a factory / OEM part, is that correct? That's one of the first things that would come off the car if I purchased it.
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The interior appears stock which is another bonus for me. The dashboard isn't cut
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The car has minimal surface rust in the front trunk (under the spare tire) and along the middle/center seam in the rear trunk.

There is some surface rust directly around / under the battery tray:
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This is the one area that is causing me some concern:
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I can't tell where that rust is located, but it appears to be more than just surface rust. Do you guys know where on the car this might be? Is this a reason to walk away from this car?

I believe this is directly to the side of the battery, not terrible?
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I haven't been able to get a really 'good look' at there rockers/pans yet, but the owner did supply these two photos:
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There is an area in one of the rockers that causes me some concern, which I'm assuming it under the battery area.

The car appears to be all original paint, or at least nothing stands out to tell me that there has been a complete repaint. I also saw in one of the photos that the door stay / door check strap is broken.

All gauges work, regularly maintained, 120k mile car.

My question is - based on what you're seeing is this a car I should even consider? I have owned many air cooled cars, several classics, and am not afraid of a pulling motors/transmissions/etc. (I'm assuming the motor is tired and will need refreshing)

Is 20k too much for a car in this condition?

Thank you
Ted P
Mogan Hill, CA.

Ted,

You have come to the right place for just about anything Porsche 914. She looks like a great example.

agreed, The snow shovel is not an original part.

When inspecting, I would request (demand) to have the rocker panels removed. It is a simple operation (or should be), if the screws are frozen, it can be a red flag. Removing the rockers are part of a regular maintenance program, even though not many guys complete this.

Rust is a major downfall of these 914's

That certainly appears to be a fairly original car; that is a terrific head start. The front valance is not a big deal to replace with a stock valance. The rear reflector is pretty easy too but will likely leave some holes when the reflector is removed. Easy to weld up, body work and have that small panel painted to match the car to restore it to original appearance.

All of these cars have rust. It's a matter of how much and how badly rusted. I would get it up on a lift somewhere and using a pick poke around those areas and probe for holes or complete rust-though.

Below the battery, the "Hell hole" is typically where it all goes wrong when it comes to rust. But it is repairable and panels are available to make it like new. Zambezi Green is a very desirable color. I think the price as listed is a little high and assuming nothing major jumps out at you, I would make an offer. Good luck- Michael

Based on the rust in the photos, $20k seems high without more detailed pics and info on what shape the engine is in, but prices seem to be all over the place at the moment. For $20k I'd want a 2 liter, but that's me.

As 930cabman said, you need to see what it looks like under the rockers. I'd ask for pics before making the drive as the screws holding them on will likely not budge and it won't be a quick affair to remove the panels.

Looks like a decent amount of rust under/around the battery. Might just be surface rust, but that pic from the underside suggests otherwise.

Edited:
Yes, that position is right under the battery tray. The aluminum silver rectangle is the resistor pack, unique to the 1.8L.
For touch up in secondary areas like underneath use the Rustoleum 2X Meadow Green. Near perfect match but not real good for topside appearance.
Lots of 1.8 threads here to help once/if you pull the trigger.
Best wishes.

Too much rust IMO. Wait until you get in there & start digging around.

As mentioned before, for $20k I'd have to see under the rocker panels. Both sides.

Also if you drive it, see how well it shifts into 1st gear.

Thank you all for the replies so far. I'm a bit bummed because I was already seeing that in my garage, but that's why I posted here. I'd rather be an informed buyer than a sad buyer.

There was a Metallic Gold 914 that just sold on BAT for $13,800 plus buyers premium. Not into the Gold Metallic (sorry to any of you that own such a car) - but the price point seems more appropriate. When you take into account the buyers premium, the cost to ship a car, that would put the cost up around $15,500 - $16,000.

Prices on BAT vary, as they do everywhere else. Depending on the day, $15k or $25k will get the same car. It seems to me that well priced (and low rust) cars do come up somewhat frequently, and since you're ready to buy you'll be ahead of many.

Good luck!

Is there a price on this car where it starts to make sense?

It really depends on if there's more rust than the photos show. It's really hard to put a real number on a car without seeing it in person, poking around, getting under the rocker panels, seeing if any of that surface rust is more than surface rust. If it's all surface rust and there's no other surprises, I'd put it at a $15K'ish, give or take.

If it were me, I'd try to be patient and find one that's not on BaT. YMMV and welcome!

That car has been up for sale for a while. I wouldn't worry about someone slipping in and buying it out from under you. A few people have looked at it already. Can't remember when I first saw it on CL, but it was more than two months ago. Here's another member's post from around that time regarding the trunk latch mechanism on that car. They might be able to tell you more about the car. @sm914650

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=366226&hl=

Hard to tell from the pictures, but I'd be worried about the hell hole and longs. Best to pull the rocker covers and take a look. Second best is to look with a borescope. If you decide you like the car find the number you want to pay and walk if they won't do it. It's my number one rule when buying. If my car was up for sale for over two months and nobody had bought it I'd be in a dealing mood.....

Good luck!!!

very good link.

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if you are going to throw down 20K go take a look at it in person.

it might be good.........or it might be screwed.
its not hard to get the ECU out and take a good look at the top of the long in the critical area. would take about 10 minutes to pull the ECU.

lots of good advice here already, with that floor pan rust and the battery tray/hell hole area looking suspect, you dont know how deep it goes, but go look . look under the rockers under the seats and under the battery in that engine shelf, if that is swiss cheese its going to cost $10k minimum to fix so keep that in mind, mine was bad in the floors and longs, but not the hell hole or engine shelf and that cost $7500 for just the long and floor repair and that was almost 5 years ago! since you want a driver and not a fixerupper this might not be the car for you, not at $20k , maybe if it were a 2.0 LE, so be cautious.

Good Luck!!

Phil

Agree with the others about rust. Too difficult to tell from the pics, but there are indications it may be way more than you can see (typical for 914s). Not sure if you’ve seen George’s/auto Atlanta’s “HowTo Buy a 914” or my “914 for newbies series” (https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmCYkBdjzDJ2BrrCZDPWMX9ecEK-qsKZs&si=9p-q1BS3uPBCkQBL), but there’s lots of good info in there. I wouldn’t buy a 914 without seeing the naked longs and having a PPi done by someone knowledgeable with these cars. I’m sure someone here could do a PPi for you, or better yet, meet you at the seller’s place and go through it with you…

Take some time to view Ian's videos, as well as the ones that George did. I think you'll find those to be really helpful.

Thanks for the tag @fiacra , just shot @TRP a message regarding the Car. As mentioned to him, i think this car is closer to a 10-14k car than 20k. A bit of a jerry rigged car that needs some good TLC

A perfect example of why this place is so great

@TRP Two weeks into being a member here and you’ve been educated enough to either save yourself some $$ or be inspired/convinced to look somewhere else.

Btw

I’d agree, 20k is a bit steep, but may be worth a look and an offer you’re comfortable with after checking those critical areas with your own eyes, or even better, with someone familiar with 914’s.

Good luck either way

Check the rear window to see if it is loose or rattles. If so, then it means that water has been running down the interior side of the firewall and puddling under the seats and rusting out the floor pan . Slide the seats fully forward and pull up the carpet and insulation to look for rust out there.

Using the pics supplied as a reference, I would say you have $5K of wiggle room when you haggle the price. It does not appear to be a 20K car. Parts prices have climbed in the past couple of years and after you get the car you will be wanting to fix or improve one thing after another. So haggle for the best rock bottom price you can, as you will be spending that money you save anyway on restoration.

Osnabruck914

Thank you all for the advice and for taking the time to reply. We will see what happens tomorrow.

Hello,

I drove to look at the car this morning. I picked up my older brother on the way, armed with my hand written checklist, we went to check it out.

First impression was that the car photographs way better than it looks in person. A good reminder of how important it is to put eyes on a car before you purchase it! The good thing about the car was that it's pretty original, without a lot of makeup to hide the sins. It's a two owner car, with the current owner having owned it since 1995. Aside from the snow plow airdam and the rear panel reflector, the car is completely untouched. It even has the black plastic and foam pad in the front trunk!

The paint has a lot of scratches on the passenger side. There were lots of door dings and chips down both sides of the car. Not out of the ordinary for a nearly 50 year old car. There were several places where rust was showing on the body. Nothing too drastic, some paint bubbles under the driver's side sail panel by the door handle, the leading edge of the hood, and a few deep scratches on the passenger side. The rear bumper cap was rusted pretty badly around the license plate lights. The passenger rear corner of the tub had a spot they had hit something which allowed rust to form. I poked at it and found a spot where I put my thumb through the pan. The hell hole just had a lot of scale (thick scale) that I scraped off, but nothing that went through the metal. There was some scale around the circular vent in both door jambs, and both front corners of the trunk seal channel.

The rear trunk had a solenoid release system that requires two people and some monkeys to open the trunk. All of the floors were really good. The rear window leaks for sure, but because the car has been garaged and rarely driven in the past 20 years, no rust had taken root. The jack points were solid, I used both of them to jack each side of the car completely off the ground. They didn't flex, creak, or move at all.

The interior was completely original and in good shape. The carpets were crispy and it was obvious they had signs of mold/mildew. Most of the black surfaces showed signs of some sort of dried up mold/mildew (white/grey spots)

The shift linkage was vague, at best. The car would need all new bushings and guides. The brakes were supposedly redone in the past few years but they didn't bleed the system very well.

The car fired right up and idled well. There is some hesitation when you first step on the pedal but that goes away once you get some rpms in it.

In the end the owner was willing to negotiate off the asking price and asked me to make an offer on the car. After reading all of your comments and taking your advice, I simply declined to make them an offer. For me it came down to the fact that it would be a long term project that would need everything done, including paint.

Thanks again to each of you who took the time to reply. I am comfortable passing on this one knowing I made a very well informed decision.

Ted

Right on!!! Play it cool. There are lots of 914s on the market now. Keep shopping!!!

@TRP

Smart move to show up prepared and with an extra set of eyes. That rust around the vents and base of the sail panel tells me there is a lot more rust in there. Unless they came down considerably you were best to walk away.

If you want a lead on another car in the area let me know. It's a 1973 1.7. Not my car, and any sale does not benefit me. About one month ago I saw it in the background of a garage sale ad. The sale was being held in a building with multiple shop spaces and I went out of curiosity. It turns out he was interested in selling it and I looked it over as best I could in the limited room I had. Looks like a decent fairly recent restoration, with a less than professional paint job in that there were some areas of overspray, some bubbling, and some drips. He thought it was a 2.0, but it clearly is a 1.7. Some question as to whether it was actually a 1911. He has records, but has not owned the car for very long. Everybody has a "story" and his was that he sold his house, bought a condo, was renting the shop space to have a place to store his cars, but now wanted to make more room for another project. The other car in the garage was pretty amazing, although I'm not an American muscle fan... I got a few pictures, but not many. We made arrangements for me to come back and give it a thorough inspection, but I got a lead on another car and ended up buying that one. Plus Sunflower Yellow is not my favorite color, and I'm not a fan of a few of the other modifications (Monza muffler and the ducktail). The interior, as best as I can remember, was pristine. He was willing for me to take off the rocker panels, look in every area I wanted to, take it for an extended test drive, etc. Seemed like a nice guy and pretty knowledgeable about cars in general. We spent at least a half hour just talking about old VWs. He wanted 20K, but quickly went down to 15K when I was able to show him it was a 1.7. I texted him the other day and he is back up to 17K! He hasn't listed it for sale anywhere yet, but told me he has had a lot of interest (I'm going to discount that as a typical sales tactic.) PM me and I can give you his contact information if you want it.

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It's the "condition" of the car that's important. A 1.7 is fine if you don't weigh a ton. Mine flies. I see several items that aren't stock. Then again, how many 50 year old cars are still stock? Mine is. Whatever. Drive the thing hard & then look for rust. Or visa versa perhaps. The hell holes are almost always rusty. It looks like there was some sloppy touch up around the battery tray. This is just a start. How old are the tires? And the spare? PM me if you want some free advice from an old fart who's pushing seventy.

@fiacra - Thank you for the info. My wife wouldn't like the yellow, I can't see past the 1.7 and the duck tail. I appreciate the offer.

@windforfun - I will give the 1.7 a second look, thank you for the advice. The yellow and the duck tail would grate on me.

Don't discount the utility of a well tuned 1.7L like mine, an original survivor first owned by my Dad.

For future reference an ice pick or small screwdriver is your best friend when assessing rust. Depending on permission from the owner, you can scratch or stab. Often the pick will go straight through metal with serious rust, even when the paint looks ok.

Thanks @bkrants. I should take a picture of the assortment of tools I brought with me today, the poor owner must have thought I was a lunatic.

RUST is what will make the difference. It has some,but without removing the rocker panels and really getting a good look at the hell hole, it's a guessing game.
For 20k range I wouldn't expect to have to spend another 5-6k in metal work.
May still be a good deal but you need more answers with photographic evidence.

I have 1.7 I'm trying to sell and wound up digging into the metal that looked questionable, fortunately no rust, but as a buyer, if the seller will not get you more detailed specific shots, not a 20k car.

If someone is looking for a “drive & enjoy” car, this example is not it. The pictures show a significant amount of rust, probably entailing structural issues and major body repair – 5-6K was mentioned above and I would expect to spend every penny of that. With the rust repair work this car WILL need at some point, in my opinion 15K is too much to spend and 20K would be out of the question.

There are much more solid cars in the 15-20k range – albeit sometimes needing cosmetic attention – ones that can be “drive & enjoy” without an extended stay at the body shop required first. Unfortunately, there are a lot of 914 cars out there that need extensive work and a significant number that have been “repaired” by unqualified butchers (on display here from time to time). They can look very attractive with a nice coat of paint and there is a tendency for a buyer to focus on that pretty paint, instead of potential horrors underneath.

I passed on a long line of cars for sale before I bought my 914, because I wanted a solid example to start with. Eventually, a very clean (it lived much of its life in California) 1973 1.7 presented itself, one where the seller documented every inch of the car, it proving to have very nice rockers and no problems in the hell hole. I paid a strong price, 21K, for it being only a 1.7, but after two years there have been no major surprises (two minor ones however, in the form of firewall rust holes behind the engine compartment pad – well, it IS a 914 after all).

Now if someone WANTS to learn body work and rebuild a car, that is totally understandable and cool, and none of the above applies. As long as it’s not too far gone to rebuild (we recently saw an example of that here), buy what trips your trigger and have at it!

But if one wants to drive, not rebuild, a car, the challenge is to keep your enthusiasm in check and not ignore the warning signs. Which is not easy I know, as I have talked myself into bad purchases (not a 914) before, even with the evidence rather visible. And one should stay away from the “it doesn’t look too bad” school of advice too – even here there are those that believe structural integrity to be a suggestion, not a requirement.