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Full Version: Are there any step by step threads to troubleshoot a 914 that's been sitting a few years and runs rough?
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914rrr
When I picked up my new to me Sepia Brown 73 2.0 it was running well enough to get it on the trailer, but not much more.

It was running and idling well a few years ago but after sitting, now not so much. It takes a long time to fire it up, idles rough, sounds like it's running on 3 to 3.5 cylinders and makes this random odd backfire noise at idle that sounds like somebody hitting a chain link fence post with a hammer.

From what I'm told, it's had most of the rubber fuel and vacuum lines replaced, new plugs a few years ago, points cleaned, and some fuel relay issue resolved.

I'm assuming that the gas in the tank is way past it's expiration date and needs to be drained / flushed, needs new gas and fuel filter, check plugs, valves adjusted and static timing checked.

As the car resides in an attached garage and in the interest of keeping the wife happy (gas and chemical smells) and not re-doing any steps, are there any "awakening from a slumber" threads for troubleshooting a rough running 914?
mate914
QUOTE(914rrr @ Dec 16 2023, 09:22 AM) *

When I picked up my new to me Sepia Brown 73 2.0 it was running well enough to get it on the trailer, but not much more.

It was running and idling well a few years ago but after sitting, now not so much. It takes a long time to fire it up, idles rough, sounds like it's running on 3 to 3.5 cylinders and makes this random odd backfire noise at idle that sounds like somebody hitting a chain link fence post with a hammer.

From what I'm told, it's had most of the rubber fuel and vacuum lines replaced, new plugs a few years ago, points cleaned, and some fuel relay issue resolved.

I'm assuming that the gas in the tank is way past it's expiration date and needs to be drained / flushed, needs new gas and fuel filter, check plugs, valves adjusted and static timing checked.

As the car resides in an attached garage and in the interest of keeping the wife happy (gas and chemical smells) and not re-doing any steps, are there any "awakening from a slumber" threads for troubleshooting a rough running 914?


Yes, lots of them. Good luck with the car.
Matt flag.gif
DRPHIL914
1 pull tank , clean or get new one from dansk
2 all new fuel lines and vac lines
3 if not done before new SS lines thru the tunnel, new filter too.
4 flush brakes all new fluid check venting clearance etc.
5 i would pull plugs check maybe replace,

thats a start other than what has been said already - thats what got me going 14 years ago, then short drives testing and sorting it out.
rjames
In addition to the above, change the oil, adjust the valves and verify timing.
If you ran it with bad gas your injectors could be gunked up, too.
Lockwodo
I found this to be really good for systematic approach to go through, test, verify and replace as needed all DJet system components:

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Man06.pdf
914rrr
QUOTE(rjames @ Dec 16 2023, 11:01 AM) *

In addition to the above, change the oil, adjust the valves and verify timing.
If you ran it with bad gas your injectors could be gunked up, too.


Suggested methods for DIY injector cleaning if they are gunked up? Gas additives, spray solvents, soaking, etc.?
914rrr
QUOTE(Lockwodo @ Dec 16 2023, 03:13 PM) *

I found this to be really good for systematic approach to go through, test, verify and replace as needed all DJet system components:

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Man06.pdf


Thanks! That reminds me to pull out and go through my pre-interweb hard copy 914 tech stuff I have in storage.
emerygt350
Just buy new fj67s after you make sure the gas is clean.

I wouldn't rebuild the whole car if all you want to do is to get it running. I bet your dizzy is all solidified. Cleaning it up and greasing the stuff that needs it is easy and satisfying.
914rrr
QUOTE(emerygt350 @ Dec 16 2023, 08:43 PM) *

Just buy new fj67s after you make sure the gas is clean.

I wouldn't rebuild the whole car if all you want to do is to get it running. I bet your dizzy is all solidified. Cleaning it up and greasing the stuff that needs it is easy and satisfying.


Thanks for the tips! I was planning on removing the dizzy anyway to check the trigger points. Best source for the FJ67's?
914rrr
Best practices for cleaning the tank if it's varnished / gummed up?

Reading other car / tractor forums for ideas was a hoot! Acetone, MEK, lacquer thinner, Seafoam, POR-15 Marine Clean, E85, pebbles, chains, nuts, attaching tanks to tractor wheels in the field to slosh things around, etc.
emerygt350
Apparently tanks are crazy cheap right now, so just buying a new one is the way to go if it's an issue.

Amazon is fine for the injectors.
brant
Redo all of the steps
Don’t trust what you were told
Verify and inspect
Do everything
FlacaProductions

@914rrr - FJ67's at Rock Auto:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/standard+...l+injector,6224

don't forget that each injector needs two seals - a small one near the tip and the larger one around the body. Rock has those as well.
914rrr
Any ideas / best practices for treating , encapsulating and sealing a 2.0 air cleaner bottom housing with several rust pin holes?

Also, regarding the top air cleaner housing port that goes to the charcoal canister, is it best to keep it hooked up or just cap it?
914rrr
Best spark plug options to use?

Is the use of anti-seize compound on plug threads still a good idea? If not, why not, and if so, what brands?
dr914@autoatlanta.com
Try the non starting procedure in the appendix of the tech tips 700 book http://www.autoatlanta.com/Tech-Tips-700-F...PN-RBK7074.html

QUOTE(914rrr @ Dec 16 2023, 07:22 AM) *

When I picked up my new to me Sepia Brown 73 2.0 it was running well enough to get it on the trailer, but not much more.

It was running and idling well a few years ago but after sitting, now not so much. It takes a long time to fire it up, idles rough, sounds like it's running on 3 to 3.5 cylinders and makes this random odd backfire noise at idle that sounds like somebody hitting a chain link fence post with a hammer.

From what I'm told, it's had most of the rubber fuel and vacuum lines replaced, new plugs a few years ago, points cleaned, and some fuel relay issue resolved.

I'm assuming that the gas in the tank is way past it's expiration date and needs to be drained / flushed, needs new gas and fuel filter, check plugs, valves adjusted and static timing checked.

As the car resides in an attached garage and in the interest of keeping the wife happy (gas and chemical smells) and not re-doing any steps, are there any "awakening from a slumber" threads for troubleshooting a rough running 914?

914rrr
Any brand recommendations for a new ignition coil? Are Beru coils still avilable, and if so, is the quality still there?
jhynesrockmtn
This thread needs some pics!

Good advice here. A car that has sat will need a lot. I've refreshed a couple. New fuel lines, clean or new injectors, new vacuum lines. Valve adjust, new plugs/wires, inspect electrical system. Tanks are cheap now, just buy a new one unless yours is miraculously rust free. It likely will be a mess. Best of luck!
914rrr
Speaking of vacuum lines, is there a source for this multi-port vacuum fitting?

Somebody along the way tried to insert too large a tube fitting into it and split it.

In the meantime, has anybody had any luck using a multi-size plastic vacuum T- fitting from a FLAPS as a temporary fix?

Click to view attachment
emerygt350
You can get that from 914rubber.com. I couldn't find anything like that at the flaps. I taped and super glued mine while it was shipped. You could just plug that whole thing while you wait for it to arrive. It's just the pcv and the decel valve. Both important, but not while troubleshooting.
FlacaProductions
Is this it:
https://914rubber.com/branch-piece-air-dist...with-fittings-1
914rrr
QUOTE(FlacaProductions @ Jan 4 2024, 08:58 PM) *


Yes, that's the one. I couldn't find it when I did an interweb search or while looking on the website earlier. Thanks to alerting me it was on there and kudos for providing parts like these... and at reasonable prices! I paid $10 for a USED thermostat boot years ago!

914rrr
QUOTE(FlacaProductions @ Jan 4 2024, 08:58 PM) *


Yes, that's the one. I couldn't find it when I did an interweb search or while looking on the website earlier. Thanks to alerting me it was on there and kudos for providing parts like these... and at reasonable prices! I remember paying $10 for a USED thermostat boot years ago!

Click to view attachment

914rrr
Well, that sucks. Tried the vacuum test on the MPS and it flunked. headbang.gif

Now the question is, does Tangerine Racing still offer the MPS rebuild and tuning kit? I found it on Chris' website but didn't know if these are still avilable.

If they are, what else is needed beside the diaphram and the tuning kit tools to repair and calibrate my 73 2.0 MPS?

https://tangerineracing.com/shop/ols/produc...MPS-DPH-MPS-DPH
emerygt350
Wideband O2 sensor and gauge to tune it. The kit from Chris is great. Super easy.
914rrr
QUOTE(emerygt350 @ Jan 5 2024, 03:59 PM) *

Wideband O2 sensor and gauge to tune it. The kit from Chris is great. Super easy.



Thanks!

Q: Is it possible to have someone "bench set" my MPS after I rebuild it for use with my bone stock 2.0?

I read through the previous thread below and it seems the MPS values / settings varied quite a bit even when new.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=348044

If I were to use a wideband O2 sensor and guage, is this similar to what I would need?

https://www.vividracing.com/-p-151339709.ht...cRoCTk8QAvD_BwE
emerygt350
Yes, Chris will give you instructions on where it will likely run reasonably well with the kit. After you install it you can set it by feel using the tools he sells with the kit. Definitely buy the little tool. You can get it into a healthy spot just by looking at the plugs and how it is running, but to really tune the car, and feel safe about it, you will want the AFR gauge. That said, a CHT gauge is also super important for engine health when playing with stuff like this. Although it is a slippery slope...
Click to view attachment
CCE
You are about to turn it on, remember you will need brakes, review all the inner rubber on your calipers, don’t know how lang it was not used, but in my case I just went through all the rubber, fluids, etc…

Good luck, and share pictures biggrin.gif
Click to view attachment
914rrr
Q: Are all Bosch MPS's pretty much the same internally and tuned for the indivdual engine / application / manufacturer such as VW , Porsche, Volvo, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, etc.?

Is it possible to hook up any old used MPS with good vacuum to my 73 2.0 to test it, get it running, etc.?
emerygt350
Yes, I am sure you could, but it won't run 'great' (although you could tune it a bit). 73 is particularly a strange year. The computer is a stock 1.7 which they jiggered for the 2.0 by modding the mps and the cht sensor. There is a plate installed in the mps besides the normal tuning.
914_teener
QUOTE(914rrr @ Jan 5 2024, 11:37 PM) *

Q: Are all Bosch MPS's pretty much the same internally and tuned for the indivdual engine / application / manufacturer such as VW , Porsche, Volvo, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, etc.?

Is it possible to hook up any old used MPS with good vacuum to my 73 2.0 to test it, get it running, etc.?



First question:

No.

Second Question;

Maybe, but why?

From the looks of the few pictures you posted...I'd take everything off the top end...go through all the hoses while your're there. Think Brant already posted it, go over everything don't skip anything or assume anything is or is ok.

Good Luck.

Good Luck.
914rrr
I need to buy a lottery ticket! I was cleaning up the MPS getting ready to disassemble it and noticed there was something that looked like dirt / mud in the vacuum port. So I thought, why not clean that dirt out and retest it for vacuum? I did, and it holds great vacuum! dancinnanner.gif

I was able to repair the manifold elbow mentioned previously with some regular crazy glue as a temporary fix. While I was cleaning it I noticed there was some gunk in the small port that was blocking it off and preventing it from pulling vacuum as well.

Needless to say, I'll be checking ALL the vacuum ports on everything! Now my question is, how did that dirt / mud / gunk get in these vacuum ports in the first place?
emerygt350
Wow, what luck. And that gunk problem is strange. No clue how that would have happened. Maybe buying a hose kit would be a good move. And make sure you verify each and every hose connection.

And... When I bought mine it was rarely driven for many years. My mps was good till it suddenly wasnt. Took about 3 months of heavy driving and my diaphragm gave out

Make sure your decel valve is hooked up correctly.
914rrr
QUOTE(emerygt350 @ Jan 11 2024, 07:52 PM) *

Wow, what luck. And that gunk problem is strange. No clue how that would have happened. Maybe buying a hose kit would be a good move. And make sure you verify each and every hose connection.

And... When I bought mine it was rarely driven for many years. My mps was good till it suddenly wasnt. Took about 3 months of heavy driving and my diaphragm gave out

Make sure your decel valve is hooked up correctly.


Some / most of the hoses were already replaced before I bought it. My only guess is that maybe during outdoor storage the hose was missing or not connected to the MPS port and a wasp tried to make a nest in it. The hose on it now is new(er).

Speaking of decel valves, I was just about to clean and test it as well. It wasn't hooked up properly anyway. A PO tried to use too large a hose and corresponding metal tube for the decel valve on the small end. They tried to insert the tube into the small port of the rubber manifold fitting causing it to crack. Also, since the hose was too large, it was too loose / didn't fit well on the small decel valve fitting. They tried wrapping electrical tape around the decel valve fitting causing a questionable seal at best and a gooey mess on the fitting.

I ran across this decel valve thread describing functionality, testing, etc. and thought I'd share. Thanks to all that contributed to this thread!

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...342479&st=0
914rrr
While cleaning out the engine bay I discovered the vacuum nipple had pulled out of the passenger side head at some point. Is it OK to simply plug that nipple back into the head or should it be secured with some sealant or adhesive? See yellow circled area below.

Click to view attachment
TP914
Check your head temp sensor ground.
914rrr
I was looking through vacuum diagrams and found this one. Are the decel valve hoses correct on this one?

Click to view attachment
emerygt350
I have never seen that diagram. It looks right but I can't be certain without looking at mine (in a meeting).

That big hose on the head is part the PCV, you will be fine just putting it back on. That is pulling in fresh air if everything is hooked up right.
914rrr
QUOTE(emerygt350 @ Feb 14 2024, 03:50 PM) *

I have never seen that diagram. It looks right but I can't be certain without looking at mine (in a meeting).

That big hose on the head is part the PCV, you will be fine just putting it back on. That is pulling in fresh air if everything is hooked up right.



Here's the thread it came from, and the reason why I'm not sure if that diagram is correct.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=67150
emerygt350
Yeah I came after that discussion but in time for the mixed maps to be floating around confusing people. As long as you are going after the new map, you are good. Over stressing the diaphragm is not good. Yet another reason I like my dash mounted vacuum gauge. Super cheap and very useful for monitoring performance.
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