I’ve struggled with the strength to post this, but today I’m feeling braver than usual. Every day I go outside to work on an ill-mannered car that frankly doesn’t get any respect. Even if it is off jackstands, I have been out accelerated by pickup trucks pulling huge fifth wheels. Of course I speak of the 914, and if any group can sympathize it’s all of you.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the cars. I admit I thought they were a little ugly at first, but they grew on me. It has not been an easy road though. The 914 is not exactly the status symbol that comes to mind when someone says “Porsche”. I need you all to know that I’m not giving up on the 914 or all of you, I just need some help.

Every day a GT2 cruises my neighborhood reeking of both affluence and performance. The driver literally laughs at my beloved little 914, having no appreciation that it is in fact one of his precious GT2’s predecessors. It never even occurs to him that they are related, and that he owes a debt of gratitude to those who paved the road ahead so that he would have the cornering ability, throttle response, and natural beauty that can only come from the evolution of a vision. That evolution has to start somewhere, and each and every stage plays a part…… and the 914 deserves to be respected, acknowledged, and appreciated.

As you can see I’m getting a bit worked up, and I know if this gets too long it will lose some of you… so

What I’m asking for may sound selfish, narrow minded, and perhaps even rude, but my heart compels me to do it anyway.

Would you all please pray for a new Carrera GT to be delivered to my house, paid in full (I’m not selfish, but the maintenance alone will require subsequent divine intervention, and I don’t want to ask for too much at one time).

I understand that many of you believe that prayer is reserved for selfless acts and noble causes, but my self-esteem is just such a cause. No man who has given so much to what he believes in should have to hang his head in shame. For all of you who have ever been slighted while driving your 914, this is for you too!

I know I should be able to be bigger than such things, I should be able to shrug it off and say it doesn’t matter; but it does matter. When my wife refuses to let me take her out for a nice evening in the 914 because the valet guys always laugh, it is most certainly not ok!

I do not admit to know the role God plays in our lives, or how autonomous we are with regard to his will, so, in the event that prayer doesn’t help, there is another option. We now have over 4,000 members at 914club, and if each person, could give just $150 I feel confident that I could purchase a Carrera GT outright, and proudly display a 914club bumper sticker on the rear. Now I realize that not everyone would contribute to such a cause, so, those with the ability should give more to offset the lack of participation that some members will have.

While I’m confident either of these two plans may work, there is a third and final option. Should something tragic befall, the GT2 driver, like a badly broken left foot, he would be unable to wield his mighty sword. I know this may sound distasteful to some, but I have it on good authority (Pat Robertson), that extreme measures are indeed an acceptable means of affecting the desired outcome. So, if you do not feel that praying will help, and are unable to contribute financially, please send some Jeff Gillooly type character to pick up where God left off.

To Dr. Ferry Porsche I beg…..

I've got a better idea.
Why don't you contribute $150 to the Runoffs Tent Fund. You will feel good inside because you were able to help your 914 brethren represent the Club at the SCCA National Road Racing Championships and we will all feel better about you owning one of these very special but often misunderstood little toys.

Not to stir up a pot o' poop, but considering the legit posts asking for prayers and help for friends who are suffering health woes, this title was a bit misleading, and possibly out of line. Im not trying to be the police, and Im not trying to single you out, but I had to state my opinion. I know your intentions were humorous though, so good luck with your wishes

While an appeal for money is a time honored tradition for seekers of absolution; I prefer the solace that comes from doing the right thing, respecting others, and maintaining a decent balance between what is and is not appropriate for a public forum.

I fully embrace the unity that comes from a group of like-minded individuals coming together for a common cause. I think the club should be extremely proud of the causes it has supported and the outpouring of compassion during some of the most trying times life has to offer. I whole-heartedly support such efforts and have even donated on occasion.

What does irk me a bit is the recent influx of posts with a decidedly religious nature. Some of which have even acknowledged the potential to upset some people, and were made anyway. Personally, I do not take offense to any beliefs, and enjoy learning more about various faiths and cultures. What I do take offense to is the invasion of cognitive commons (public places) with things that might make some people uncomfortable or disenfranchise them in any way from an otherwise cohesive group.

As you can see by the number of views this thread has and only one response, which I give Chris credit for making, the subject is not a comfortable one for most people. Those that agree are hesitant to say anything for fear of being labeled and lashed out at; which is a valid concern as Chris so kindly demonstrated. By saying “we” would feel better about “you” having a 914, it makes a clear distinction between those who support religious solicitation in a public forum, and those who do not. Not a very good way to promote unity is it?

My intent was not to offend anyone, simply to bring to light the importance of keeping some personal beliefs personal. I will always be there to offer a helping hand to someone in need, and have the utmost respect for the diversity that makes mankind so unique and spectacular.

Just as gratuitous boob shots used to make some people uncomfortable, religious references have the same impact on others. The off color humor has moved to the “sandbox” and perhaps rightly so, and in that same vein, religious outpourings should as well. The issue is religion, not compassion, support, or sympathy. Those are human universals, religion unfortunately is not.

Steve, I for one, was happy to see an irreverent tone in your post. I agree with you that there are a number of posts recently that are overtly religious in nature, and I completely agree with your stance.

You are not alone.




Mark (donning the nomex)

So, suppose you do get a C GT....how are you going to "hide" it from your nemises (GT2 guy)? Maybe you could glue some 914 parts on it, and then when he thinks you are dusted yet again, you can stomp on it and the force of the power would make the 914 parts fly off revealing the true identity....kinda like a Phoenix raised from the ashes....??

QUOTE (LvSteveH @ Aug 24 2005, 07:34 PM)

as Chris so kindly demonstrated.

What?


Steve,
I think you have me mistaken for someone else.
I thought you were serious and I was just being selfish and righteously indignant.

Truthfully,

I avoid posting on the prayer plea topics, not because they bother me or because I don't wish people well.
My opinion is that such pleas and their responses, while on the surface appearing to be selfless acts, are not so different than my asking for money to have a group thing at the Runoffs. The major difference is that my request is truly on topic at the 914Club and does promote unity in the 914 world (except for those members who don't give a shit about racing).

My religious rant:
We are all living a fragile and frightened existence on this planet. We are little more than candles in the wind. When we are reminded of this by illness or death most of us choose to huddle together to shield ourselves from the onslaught of the great unknown just beyond our personal borders.
My approach is to open myself up to the unknown. I choose activities that require a delicate balance of control and abandon. I practice this so that when I am confronted unexpectedly with the difficult turns that are an inevitable part of our existence I will be prepared to navigate them efficiently and successfully. I fully expect from time to time to be placed in circumstances that leave me shaking in my boots. I don't want to crap in my pants whenever "God shakes his finger at me" so I practice intending every day.

Just what the world needs…. more mechanic/philosophers. I must confess that the GT2 in question was purely hypothetical. If I somehow were to become the new owner of a Carrera GT, I would drive it within an inch of it’s life for a few days (potentially crashing it like so many others) and then sell it to pay off my house.

For what it is worth I greatly appreciate the support. I didn’t actually expect to get any. I figured the disenfranchised would simply skip to the post about a mysterious noise emanating from the car and never know there was someone fighting the good fight. Doing the right thing can be a thankless job sometimes, which is the best indication that you are indeed doing the right thing. Knowing that I could be shunned by many people that I like and respect, was not something I looked forward to.

Like Chris, I tend not to post in the “sympathy” threads too often…… ok, never. It’s not because the posts aren’t specifically car related. In fact what makes 914club so great is that so many things are “off topic”. I truly feel like I know some people that I have never actually met or even talked to. I don’t necessarily have grounds to suggest that “sympathy” posts should be eliminated, because like any person, you have to take the good with the bad. The issue of religion is however much easier to differentiate. To look for comfort in friends during difficult times is what being part of a community is all about, it is however another thing entirely to make that appeal on religious grounds.

It always bothers me that people don’t seem to pay much attention to the human tragedies that occur daily around the world, barely pausing while flipping the channel to note a horrible train crash in India, or an earthquake in South America. Human suffering is a constant part of our existence, and it should not be taken too lightly, or too seriously. It just is… and always will be. The best we can do is to give all experiences, good and bad, their due, and move on, being stronger for it; that is life.

Steve

I think I understand your position on prayer and I respect your right to post it. I also understand people's positions on gratuitous boobs. I've turned off avitars as that is the easiest way to limit the extra boobs and I try to choose the threads I look at. Even so, I occasionally stumble onto something I'd rather not read so I leave it and go on. It's not a perfect place but, I still enjoy it.

No one hesitates to ask for help with engines and transmissions or even wives and girlfriends. I'm glad that people will ask for help with really important issues. Quite frankly, the insights we gain (apart from Z's ass) into people's lives is one of the enjoyable parts of this forum for me. You can choose not to look at those posts. I quess I'd have to suggest you lighten up a little. Ignore the stuff that's not up your alley.

Dave

QUOTE (Racer Chris @ Aug 24 2005, 08:40 PM)

I fully expect from time to time to be placed in circumstances that leave me shaking in my boots. I don't want to crap in my pants whenever "God shakes his finger at me" so I practice intending every day.

I'm scared

ourfatherwhoartinheaveanhallowedbethynamethykingdomcomethywillbedoneonearthasiti
sonplutogiveusthisdayourdailybreadandforgiveusourtresspasseslethimwhohathunderst
andingreconthenumberofthebeatsforitisahumannumberit'snumberissix-hundredandsixtysix

Why do you even care what the GT2 owner thinks. I dont get it.

Hell I'll pray for yours if you pray for mine!

QUOTE (redshift @ Aug 24 2005, 09:51 PM)

I'm scared ...giveusthisdayourdailybread...

QUOTE (LvSteveH @ Aug 24 2005, 09:37 PM)

Just what the world needs…. more mechanic/philosophers.

Been a Philosopher-welder for about 18 years now.

I'm dissapointed in your lack of wisdom LvSteveH. Maybe I'm the one out of line and I misunderstood, but this struck me as tactless and disrespectful for people who are really going through some serious shit. Maybe someday you'll have something happen that takes you down so far you'll be desperate enough to call on something bigger than you, even if you are an athiest. Dammit, I never post comments like this because it doesn't do anything positive. I'll probably get slammed now. I guess I'm just hoping you'll think about it and have more respect before posting something like this in the future.

This is a community and we need to have some room and respect for each others' personalities and beliefs. Religion and politics don't belong here, but the recent posts that provoked this are unique and DO belong in the club because the club is a group of people who care about and support each other regardless of all that.

MHO.

looks like there is a spot for everybody!

I have been praying for the same thing but it doesnt seem to work with material things. I'll pray for you if you pray for me. My sense is its better to keep prayer solicitations for things that are important like family and freinds.
But we are an irreverent group here so I'll toast to your prayer request tonight. Here's to living life to the fullest!

I'm not a religious person. But I do feel I am spiritual. And I consider the club and its members close friends. Maybe that makes me a car club geek. I've been accused of worse. Maybe I don't believe in prayer. But I do believe in sharing with those I'm close to. Whether it be to share my joyfulness about a happy event in my life, or share in the sorrow of a sad event. It makes me feel better to know I'm not alone. Is that selfish? Maybe. Who isn't? Who is completely selfless?

The prayers and kind thoughts are friends reaching out to comfort each other in times of need. If that is too much for you to stomach, maybe another car forum is better suited for your needs.

Respectfully,
Jenny

Religion, like politics, belongs on some other forum. I don't frequent them, but there must be lots of other boards for that.
Thanks Steve.

Well said Jenny.

Jim, I agree. I stated the same thing. But the recent threads that spawned this were more about people reaching out to their friends for support, not about religion. I don't want to see religion discussed here, but I want to see people supporting each other regardless of their beliefs. I don't want to see clubbers mocking each other when it's about something as serious as losing a friend of family member.

Dude, you want a C-GT over your 914??? WTF? I'm offended.

All people are different. Accept it and enjoy the ride.

This site rocks and I enjoy seeing posts on kids born, birthdays, certain needs, and of course 914 content. Peace.

Regardless of how much you agree or disagree with the recent said threads, I still think it's in bad taste to post this. It's like a slap in the face to all the club members who have lost someone they cared about and turned to the club for support.

Others may not take it as such, but I view this as a spit-on-your-face to anyone who has ever asked for support, or has lost someone, on this club site. That's all the Dave Cawdreys, Hunters, Eastons, Nikos, people fighting over seas, Joe Buckle, Brian's Grandmother, my grandfather, Scott's father, Sean's father, Pastor Dave's father, and numerous others. Anyone who has asked for support, or has recieved support.

This is a humbling thread. Shows me that I need to look for my friends and support elsewhere. I had no idea that asking for some support was so unwelcomed here.

That's all from me, I'll be in St. Louis attending a funeral. I doubt I'll be checking in here as much in the future. My car runs decently, so I guess unlike some, I don't use this forum solely for tech support.

Jen

I nominate that we rename this avater for Steve. Cold man........Cold
You do write pretty though.

I'm not done man I'm still pissed. I probably should stop, but yeah this got under my skin. You've got a few members that had family die and you gotta know that they are going to read this. What??? They are suppose to find the humor in it?

Look now were both guilty. I could of just stopped reading like you could of stopped reading the other posts. Yeah, yeah I know.........but this is not about religion for me so take me out of that box. It's about having respect and holding your tongue......I mean digits.

Jenny(In my best Forrest Gump voice) let this roll off, there's lurkers like me that do care.

I think I did a reasonable job of demonstrating that it is the religious agendas that were at issue, not the compassion for human suffering. I don’t know how I could have made that more clear. The emotional appeal that suggests that I am some how not sympathetic to the loss each and every person experiences is completely unfounded. It is also somewhat vicious to suggest such a thing. A very one-sided view. I never condemned the use of the club as a support mechanism, in fact I said it was a necessary byproduct of having such a close knit group of people. The fact is that some people are more public with their lives than others, and that is natural. Just because I’m not comfortable posting to a thread about someone’s loss does not in any way mean I am not as affected or compassionate as anyone else.

I am always amazed at the aggression some people display when voicing their opinion….. rather than being able to intelligently present a point of view, they resort to scathing accusations and assumptions in a sensational display of…… nothing, totally avoiding the issue. There are plenty of places and mediums for people to conjugate and communicate about religious matters. I would gladly hang out with anyone on the board and discuss theology until the sun comes up. I would however not turn a 914club event into a platform for those discussions in mixed company. To refer to me as an atheist clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding for the meaning of the word. It is equally flawed to presume one person has suffered any more or less than another.

While there are people lined up to claim foul that I would dare take issue with the solicitation of prayer, not one person has chimed in saying they didn’t realize it made some people uncomfortable. Why is that? Honestly, it’s because they don’t care if they make people uncomfortable, there is enough of a religious faction to support the behavior and justify it….. it has been that way for 2000 years. We still live in a culture that abides by the illusion that “under God” is somehow universal, and that anyone taking exception to that is in error.

My point is that making even one person uncomfortable is too many. Was my post rude and somewhat distasteful…… of course it was…… just like any other post that has an agenda that is more important than the feelings of an individual. Just seeing the word prayer in a thread title strikes me as inappropriate. Now, if for example, someone experienced a loss, and someone responded that they were in their prayers….. I think that is fine and in fact very kind. It is the solicitation that is the issue. I am still amazed that no one seems to mind that they make others uncomfortable.

I feel badly that anyone would think I didn’t care about what they are going through, because that couldn’t be further from the truth. Of our 4000 members there isn’t anyone I don’t like. While I hate that this thread made some people upset, I can only hope that they try to understand what I’m getting at….. instead of taking it as a personal attack.

QUOTE (LvSteveH @ Aug 24 2005, 11:24 PM)

I would gladly hang out with anyone on the board and discuss theology until the sun comes up.

At which time you return to your basement and commence with the Sleep of Ages?






(you left the basement door wide open on that one )

While I’m not the most prolific poster out there, I’ve enjoyed being a club member for the last two and a half years. The whole point of this was to bring people closer together through mutual respect of social boundaries. Clearly the topic is too close to home for some people to be objective about. Would it have made any difference if I made a nice subtle post requesting that religious solicitation be avoided….. probably not.

I fully accept that many people will never understand, but if you are one of them, you really should think about it instead of just lashing out. By making a public request for prayer, you are offending people and inviting public scrutiny. Today I was that scrutiny. I spoke for many that feel the same way, but choose not to say anything on a daily basis. Religious freedom includes freedom from religion. I have complete faith in the human spirit and it’s ability to persevere through the toughest times. People can love and support one another without religion being involved.

For those who have shared a loss with the club, I assure you this was not a betrayal of that trust. Any support I offered, though anonymous, was heartfelt and sincere.

I can’t imagine the 914club without Jenny, so I embark on a voluntary vow of silence until she invites me back. I do reserve the right to lurk though. I like you guys too much.

Yes, I am bringing snow tires so I can still drive my 914 when hell freezes over.

Ideally religion should be a private thing...however, I do not mind that some people need to express their faith in public...sometimes it can be a little over the top, but that's ok. It is a way for some to make their feelings known. I think I undersand what LvSteveH is saying, and it seems harmless to me. Perhaps he is reacting with a polite backlash against the current trend towards expressing religious beliefs in public? I understand that. When politicians and news anchors do this, I have to roll my eyes...pure pandering at its worst. I am an atheist...all I can say is people should respect the beliefs of others....including those who do not believe in their deity. Fewer wars that way, huh?

We all experience grief and tragedy. Hopefully we all have a way to deal with it....including sharing with others as we deem appropriate.

This is a great community. Come back Jenny. Come back LvSteveH.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

QUOTE (LvSteveH @ Aug 25 2005, 04:11 AM)

I can’t imagine the 914club without Jenny, so I embark on a voluntary vow of silence until she invites me back. I do reserve the right to lurk though. I like you guys too much.

ALLAH ACKBAR!!

-drives into a Jiffy Lube-


M

Is there a digging smiley?

I only reply so as not to be confused with a member of this offended silent community for whom you speak.

You are obviously an intelligent person with a formidable vocabulary. Surely you didn't expect someone who is asking for support in the midst of a very real crisis involving a seriously ill or dying loved one, to defer their much needed energies toward analyzing and finding pragmatic meaning hidden in a theoretical, self-righteous riddle....while thinking you were a funny guy all the while.

That's not an accusation. I'm really saying that I'm sure that was not your intention. It may, however, have come off that way to some....much like when someone asking others to keep a friend in their thoughts and prayers is confused with religious zealotry.

Steve,

Come on, if you don't like a thread don't respond to it. But don't be a smart-ass and try to make some social statement and mock others. As you can see you've pissed some people off and folks now think less of you. You really made your point.

Disscussion boards are great. You can say things to people or about people that you will never-ever meet face to face. You write real smooth. But you should ask yourself if you'd say the things you write if we were all face to face.

Paul

PEOPLE WHO ARE NEW TO THIS THREAD: BEFORE YOU POST, Think; "Do I need to step in poop today?"

1. You can't win.

2. There are many footprints in this pooh.

3. There are other threads, with more poohtential.



M

Some days my shoes are covered with poop.

"God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble."
-James 4:6

Proverbs 1:22-33

22 “ How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.
23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.
24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
28 “ Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD,
30 They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.
31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.
32 For the turning away of the simple will slay them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 But whoever listens to me will dwell safely,
And will be secure, without fear of evil.”

“ For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD.
- Isiah 55:8

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."
- Matthew 11:28

As things created, its natural for us to recognize our need for our Creator, and search or cry out to Him in prayer. It's also natural for an unchanged heart to resist and dismiss this need to be reconciled to Him.

I feel no need to get into a pissing contest about this subject. Us Christians can't and won't force you to believe. You're free to live your life however you want, but that doesn't change the facts of life (and death) and that you will be held accountable in the end.

-end
(poop stepped in)

Oh man, did you step in it....

P

QUOTE (URY914 @ Aug 25 2005, 07:58 AM)

Oh man, did you step in it.... P

Oh well...I try.

My wife and I want to get a British Bulldog Puppy. Unfortunately, they are very expensive and have alot of health problems. If we get one and its a girl, I want to name it Daisy or Beulah, if its a boy Brutus or Spike.

Awww what a cute widdle puppy-wuppy.

Damn JasonS, that was quite possibly the best thread hi-jack in history. Smooth, well thought out and concise, with a picture to add to the temptation. For that I salute you
What kind of health problems do these dogs have?

Nice try Jason...but everyone knows that "Dog" is "God" spelled backwards (or visa-versa)!

Cool lookin' puppy.......or is it a yppup?

....as for Jenny, it was just the worst possible timing for a mock "request for prayer" post.

My Karmann ran over my dogma.

I am a Bulldog FanAtIC! Last three dogs have been stinkopotomuses!



Good female bulldog names:

Sugar
Molannis Otisette
Lumpy



M

That dog looks like an old girlfriend....

P

QUOTE (redshift @ Aug 25 2005, 08:37 AM)

My Karmann ran over my dogma. Good female bulldog names: Molannis Otisette

I wasn't gonna get in on this, but that's funny, I don't care who ya are. Git R Done.

QUOTE (redshift @ Aug 25 2005, 11:37 AM)

Last three dogs have been stinkopotomuses! M

Now THAT was funny.



Oh, and BTW, when I read the first paragraph or so of the initial post in this thread, my immediate reaction was "Sheesh Steve. After what several of our members have been through lately, how in the world can you not see how hurt and/or insulted many will be by this".