Hi all,

So I have acquired the second 914-4 2.0 in my life. The last one was more than 40 years ago back in the late 70’s in California… This one is in really nice shape, body excellent, Saturn Yellow paint new, the motor only has 6000K miles (9000 km) on it after a rebuild (still has the D-Jetronic). NO rust anywhere. It’s pretty much original, with the exception of a conversion to 5-lug/5-spoke 914-6 wheels and brakes.

There isn’t much I want to do to it with the exception of replacing the original Frankfurt stereo radio with a new DAB+/Bluetooth unit and the original speakers with some new, better ones using 914 Rubber’s pods. However I do have a few questions, as my knowledge of the car is now 40 years old…

First, to those 5-spoke wheels. They are new real Fuchs 7 x 15 matte black and look great on the car. The tires are currently Pirelli P6000 195/65’s and they stick like glue in the corners. At 25” OD, they are only about 1/2" smaller in diameter then the original 165 SR 15’s (25.4”). But of course way wider and lower profile. Therein lies the rub – well actually they don’t, the rear fender lip has been rolled slightly and they do not contact even on hard cornering.
However…

195 is the minimum limit for tire width on a 7” rim. The sidewalls are pretty taut and don’t bulge much at all. The issue is that the ride is harsher than I seem to recall with my original 914 from the ‘70’s, - that one had the 4-lug 5 1/2 J Mahle cast wheels with 185/70’s mounted – that was pretty much the thing back in the day. As tire flex does make up a significant part of the overall springiness of the suspension and these have very little… The other side effect of the wide, flat tires is that turning the steering wheel at low parking speeds is very hard. Hmmm.

So, the two thousand dollar question is - I am wondering if going back to 6 x 15 rims with 185/70’s would be a worthwhile improvement? Sacrifice some cornering adhesion for a somewhat smoother ride and easier low-speed turning. I’m sure there will be thousands of opinions on this but well, bring it on...

The other semi-related thing is that this car doesn’t have a front anti-roll (stabilizer) bar. My car in CA back in the 70’s did, because I remember replacing the bushings at one point. Were these optional? The body doesn’t even have the holes for the mounting plates in the wheel wells, however the A-arms do have the u-brackets where the bar would be attached. The car has Bilsteins all around and already doesn’t roll much, so I’m wondering if finding the parts and putting one on would make a real difference.

I will have lots of other questions later, will start new topics for those as they arise. Thanks for any input!

--ch

Welcome back to the world, so far as wheels/tires why not stay with the P6000's if you like the stickiness, unless you wish to hang the tail out there?

I think the bilstein’s has more to do with your ride quality, then the p6’s. Try Boge.

Welcome to our mid-engine madness! It’s a wonderful thing.

Nice looking car, from what I can see. 50 years is a long time, add a few different owners and you may never know what you have. I put 19 mm torsion in front and 140 lb springs in the rear. It rides like Fred Flintstone's car. Then the bilstein's will take it to a new lever of stiffness.

I have the same set up as Shivers, 19 mm torsion bars, 19 mm sway bar and 140 lb springs in the rear with Bilstein's all around. Handles like a go-kart! Mahle wheels with 195/60x15 tires.

I've been running several brands of 205x65x15" tires for about 15 yrs. on original steel 5.5"x15" rims, and ride and traction for street/touring are just fine. As an old autocrosser I did add a stock size front sway bar and it did significantly enhance handling as I expected. Required removing fuel tank which was necessary for maintenance anyway, and cutting holes for bar mounting was no big deal.

As others have mention, we are sucker for pictures, so please add some of your beautiful "new" car!

Wheels and tires are obviously a wide discussion and I will let others comment on this (performance, comfort, etc). Personally, yes I would go to 15x6 as i feel 15x7 is just too close to the sheetmetal for my preferred look, but looks are a very personal thing.

The sway bars (15mm front and 16mm back) on the 4 cylinder cars first appeared on the 2 liter in 73 as part of the standard equipment (same as center console with 3 gauges). They became an option after 73.

You do not mention what year your car is. From your avatar, your front bumper doesn't seem to have the bumperettes which would make this a 70-72 front bumper, unless the bumperet holes have been capped off.

As you probably already know, the 2 liter was offered starting in 73, which is also the year where the side shift gearbox appeared (improved shifting). Other changes happening that year includes: door inner crash side beam, new window mechanism (scissors), reinforced front panel in the spare tire well, and other ramdom features.

Installing the front sway bar on your car will require drilling a hole in the inner fender and welding triangular brackets under the fuel tank (as mentioned). For the rear sway bar, you will need to weld two brackets under the trunk floor and add a couple of reinforcement plate inside the trunk. Obviously, you will need to find a complete set of front and rear sway bars which have become harder to find over the years. Some components have been reproduced, but some need to be stock. Happy hunting!

These thread explains the modifications for the bars installation.
Ian Karr's great videos on how to's for your 914, this is the front sway bar one:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=325538

Rear sway bar install:

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...4_rear_sway.htm


Pictures please!


EDIT: I just noticed you are in Switzerland! I know there are differences in EU cars, some of my comments above may not apply... I can now see you do not have the front side markers which probably means this is a EU car originally, unless they were plugged like some of the north american restored cars. Do you know the origin of the car?

The turning efforts aren’t going to change much with a wheel/tire change.

I see this repeatedly where people have forgotten what steering feels like without power assist.

It feels great at speed; communicative road feedback that simply isn’t feasible with power assist. The downside is the steering effort is very high if the car isn’t moving. The solution is to roll the car ever so slightly when turning at low speed. Steering efforts go way down with even the slightest motion between the wheel and the ground.

Side note: although you haven’t mentioned it, the same thing occurs when brakes. The 914 brakes do not have power assisted brakes. If you’ve grown accustomed to modern cars and power assist brakes, to many people, the 914 will feel like the brakes take too much force to stop.

All these power assist nanny’s (steering, brakes, door locks, windows, mirrors, etc.) have made us weak and lazy

For got to add I had 205/60x15 tires when I bought the car and they rubbed the inner fender when fully turned.

With the 5 lug wheel upgrade, you probably have 911 A-arms which is why you might have the tab and not the actual sway bar. Like others have stated, you might have larger torsion bars and rear springs resulting in the stiffer ride you seek to soften up.

Adding a stock swaybar is going to further stiffen the ride due to the non adjustable drop links, sitting, the stock sway is under a bit of torsion, which will slightly add to the stiffness of your ride.

Be sure to consider all these aspects when formulating a plan of attack, as for wheels and tires, pending pictures of your car, id leave them alone, concentrate on spring rates.

I would like to add that even the brand of tire/type can substantially change road feel and harshness. I switched from a Firehawk to a general gmax, same dimensions and steering and harshness was night and day different (easier with the generals). I would keep the wheels and look for a tire that is known for a more pleasant ride. If that isn't enough, then I would be looking at the shocks and struts. Changes in both will probably be close to the same cost, maybe a few hundred more for the shocks and struts. I would do tires simply because it does not require 914 specific mechanics if you are not inclined to get dirty or don't want to mess with what sounds like a wonderful car.

Isn't it possible to verify 914 vs 911 torsion bars by exposing the splines at the T-bar adjuster?

Can this be done without serious disassembly?

I believe it can and if it does have the 911 bars EVERYONE has said "Pretty stiff, most people won't like them" and I'd change back to 914 stuff first before changing up my tires.

If the spring rates are too high for your taste nothing else will tame them down.

Welcome!

First, great color!

Second, a second 914 can be the start of a slippery slope.

Third, I bet having 195 section tires on 7 inch wheels makes them extra stiff. But before buying new wheels, any chance you can find somebody nearby with a set of wheels and tires you can borrow?

Hi all,

Thanks for all the replies! Here's what I know:

This is an EU car, it was originally delivered in France, and imported into Switzerland sometime in 2013. According to the body number - 4449600, if I figured out how to correctly interpret the numbers, it was the 100th car manufactured on the first of November, 1973 - but I assume it was sold as a 1974 - the first registration is dated January 1974, although that could be a fictitious date. There were no "bumperettes" or side blinker lights on European models (thank goodness). There is also no P O R S C H E lettering on the engine lid like the US models had, and the tail badge is 914-VW-Porsche 2.0 (US models only said "914 2.0" IIRC).

I don't have any records of what was done in France, it was there that the body was restored and repainted and they did a very good job. I do have records of what was done in Switzerland subsequently. The 5-lug conversion was done in 2014. There is no mention of changing the A-arms, just the hubs, brake calipers etc. Also at that time it got the Bilsteins and the 15 x 7 wheels. No mention of any front torsion bar or rear spring replacement, but something like that could possibly have been done in France before the car got to Switzerland - no idea really.

While the car was on the lift last week for something else, I did take a picture of the front suspension setup:

Click to view attachment

Unfortunately I did not take any pictures of the rear suspension at the time. I will do some more picture documentation soon.

Edit:
Here is an image of the rear suspension.

Click to view attachment

Below is a higher resolution image of the car (same used for the avatar), taken at the top of a small mountain pass on the on the trip back home from the guy I bought it from.

Click to view attachment

Still going around with the tires/wheels...

Especially after having read through this topic here.

Also because the current P6000's are already well used and while they probably still have a few thousand km left, at some point I will need to change them; plus on the next state vehicle inspection, the wide 7" rims might or might not pass muster.

So I have been toying with the idea of getting a set of Maxilite's 15" deep sixes - which are made here in Switzerland and certified for 914's here in and in Germany (albeit for 914/6's). And, as a compromise between "fat" and "skinny", putting 185/70's on them. Sacrifice some stickiness in the corners for improved low speed steering and maybe a bit softer ride. Bit of a crap shoot I guess, ya takes ya $2K and rolls the dice... The 6-inch deep sixes won't look quite as cool and "muscle-y" as the 7-inchers.

Just thinking about tires - the P6000's here in that size are like $300 a pop, Michelin XWX's about $350, Dunlop Sports about $225 and... Kleber Dynaxer HP4's are only about $100. They have reasonable if not stellar reviews. Hmmm.

Haven't decided anything yet, this is just a rubber fantasy for the moment...