French car.

small steering wheel.

smells like cabbage.

Surrenders a lot, has BIG BRIGHT back up lights with five reverse gears....

Its a design classic to many people.

The DS is a good looking car (when you compare it to the Ente). QUACK.

QUOTE (brer @ Sep 2 2005, 09:17 AM)

smells like cabbage.

That's B.O. from P.O.
Small tits, underarm hair.

I thought that it was a vodka with a slight taste of lemon.

I CALLED THE OWNER AND HE PUT THE AD ON THE PORSCHE CATAGORY BECAUSE THEY DIDNT HAVE ONE FOR CITROEN . AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE I AM NEW TO THE 914 BUT I REALY LIKE THEM. I THOUGHT IT WAS SOME SORT OF ENGINE.

caps lock off please....

QUOTE (SEEMORE BUTZ @ Sep 2 2005, 09:19 AM)

Surrenders a lot, has BIG BRIGHT back up lights with five reverse gears....

Bright back up lights?
five reverse gears?

I thought that was the VW New Beetle?

QUOTE (Howard @ Sep 2 2005, 08:25 AM)

QUOTE (brer @ Sep 2 2005, 09:17 AM) smells like cabbage. That's B.O. from P.O. Small tits, underarm hair.

Leg hair too, come to think of it, that must be the reason for french cut booty shorts

also leaves a trail of hydrolic oil everywhere.

Citroen is a French car maker, known for years for making pretty oddball cars until they merged with Peugeot. They made the first car with a monocoque chassis and front wheel drive in the 1930s. In the late 1950s, the DS came out with hydropneumatic suspension: no springs, just hydraulic cylinders kept pumped up by an engine-driven pump. If it sits for awhile with the engine off, the car sinks. When the engine is fired up, the suspension slowly rises again, levelling based on the load in the car. You can adjust the ride height from inside the car...The same hydraulics power everything else, steering, brakes, automatic gearbox.

The only vague 914 connection is that Citroen transaxles were used in a number of mid-engined sports and racing cars, including the Lotus Europa.

Nowadays, they just make "normal" cars, and won the World Rally Championship the last couple of years, and are in contention for it this year.

someone who basically owns the FIA and influences them to change rules every year for their benefit

QUOTE (Sammy @ Sep 2 2005, 09:06 AM)

someone who basically owns the FIA and influences them to change rules every year for their benefit

Uh, what?

Citroen: French car company that has been around for a very long time. Developed one of the very first FWD platforms (if not the first for a production car). DS had the hydrolastic (?) suspension. Innovative car company (IMHO).

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Sep 2 2005, 10:32 AM)

QUOTE (Sammy @ Sep 2 2005, 09:06 AM) someone who basically owns the FIA and influences them to change rules every year for their benefit Uh, what?

FIA = Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile. The sanctioning body for most of the major motorsports events in the rest of the world, including Formula 1.

Hydrolastic was Austin for sure. The mini had it.
Not sure about Citroen.

Absolutley the Mini's had it, but Citroen may have been the first. It was basically an adjustable suspension floating on hydraulic fluid.

QUOTE (BMartin914 @ Sep 2 2005, 09:50 AM)

Absolutley the Mini's had it, but Citroen may have been the first. It was basically an adjustable suspension floating on hydraulic fluid.

The hydrolastic that BMC used was VERY different from the hydropnuematic that Citroen used. The BMC system was fixed pressure, using a sealed gas charge to set ride height, and the weight of the car itself provided the levelling and bump springing. The Citroen system was active, using an engine-driven pump. The indivdual wheel cylinders could be controlled from the cockpit. Indeed, this is how the "jack" worked. The "jack" was nothing more than a jackstand, and you set the one wheel that needed to be changed to min ride height, then set the other three to max ride height.

Vegas, I know what the FIA is, I don't know what Sammy's crack about rules manipulation means, however.

There IS a tenuous connection - the front (podded) spotlights fitted to some 911's and a few 914's (even a 916, maybe) come from the Citroen DS Pallas.

Citroen DS

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Sep 2 2005, 10:30 AM)

[The hydrolastic that BMC used was VERY different from the hydropnuematic that Citroen used. The BMC system was fixed pressure, using a sealed gas charge to set ride height, and the weight of the car itself provided the levelling and bump springing. The Citroen system was active, using an engine-driven pump. The indivdual wheel cylinders could be controlled from the cockpit. Indeed, this is how the "jack" worked. The "jack" was nothing more than a jackstand, and you set the one wheel that needed to be changed to min ride height, then set the other three to max ride height.

I had forgotten that the Citroen's used an engine-driven pump. Appreciate the refresher. I have always liked the Citroen DS - even if they do look a little wierd.

Gustl - Nice pics.

This is the one I always liked

Yesterday, the French Government announced that it has raised
its terror alert level from
RUN to HIDE.

The only two higher levels of their terror alert are
SURRENDER and COLLABORATE.

The heightened alert was precipitated by the recent fire which
destroyed the French White Flag factory, effectively disabling
their military..

All Citroen Tanks have had the reverse tail lights replaced with 100 watt bulbs as opposed to the the normal 10 watt ones. The cannon position have been permanently welded to the rear so as to not have inadvertant fire and hurt their new "friends" and business partners.

Film at 11, in a language to be announced....

Jokes aside.. The SM was kinda neat.
Comparisons (Data from Wheels, June 1972)
Acceleration (standing 1/4 mile, in seconds)
Citroen SM 17.2
Lotus Elan +2s 130 16.7
Mercedes Benz 280 SEL 4.5 17.8
Porsche 911S 14.4

Braking (70 - 0 mph, panic stop test, feet)
Citroen SM 178
Lotus Elan +2s 130 186
Mercedes Benz 280 SEL 4.5 210
Porsche 911S 214

Fuel Economy Range (miles per gallon)
Citroen SM 16 -- 22
Lotus Elan +2s 130 20 -- 25
Mercedes Benz 280 SEL 4.5 11 -- 14
Porsche 911S 14 -- 17

Price as Tested (dollars * 1000, 1972)
Citroen SM 12
Lotus Elan +2s 130 7
Mercedes Benz 280 SEL 4.5 11
Porsche 911S 11

My uncle has had many citroens. When I go to France or Morocco we tour in his all the time. Very comfortable ride.
The suspension is great. You can raise any corner of the car independently or all at once or almost any configuration. This is great for parking in Europe and North Africa as some of the curbs are strange and the adjustable suspension allows you to jack up to park in hard to get to places.

Lots of space inside and pretty zippy too.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Sep 2 2005, 10:30 AM)

The Citroen system was active, using an engine-driven pump. The indivdual wheel cylinders could be controlled from the cockpit. Indeed, this is how the "jack" worked. The "jack" was nothing more than a jackstand, and you set the one wheel that needed to be changed to min ride height, then set the other three to max ride height.

The Suspension actually came with the "traction avant" which I believe came out in the 30s. A more modern innovation on the theme is fully active suspension on a car called the Xantia Activa - the system gets an extra 20% traction out of any tires you put on it. The strong point of citroen suspension is you can adjust the ride height from the driver's seat. They can go from like 4" off the ground to about a foot ground clearance.

The SM is also a nice car - that one has a Maserati engine in it.

Citroen is famous for it's involvement in the double helical chevron gears which it takes it's logo from:

Read this for more info:
http://www.oldandsold.com/articles01/article825.shtml

More history:
http://www.svvs.org/citroen2.shtml

i'm surprised no one mentioned the fact that the headlights turn side-to-side as the driver turns the steering wheel. they are a comfy ride. david crosby is mad for them.

k

QUOTE (fiid @ Sep 2 2005, 10:12 PM)

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Sep 2 2005, 10:30 AM) The Citroen system was active, using an engine-driven pump.  The indivdual wheel cylinders could be controlled from the cockpit.  Indeed, this is how the "jack" worked.  The "jack" was nothing more than a jackstand, and you set the one wheel that needed to be changed to min ride height, then set the other three to max ride height. The Suspension actually came with the "traction avant" which I believe came out in the 30s. A more modern innovation on the theme is fully active suspension on a car called the Xantia Activa - the system gets an extra 20% traction out of any tires you put on it. The strong point of citroen suspension is you can adjust the ride height from the driver's seat. They can go from like 4" off the ground to about a foot ground clearance. The SM is also a nice car - that one has a Maserati engine in it. Citroen is famous for it's involvement in the double helical chevron gears which it takes it's logo from: Read this for more info: http://www.oldandsold.com/articles01/article825.shtml More history: http://www.svvs.org/citroen2.shtml

The Traction did come out in the 1930s, but the suspension was only fitted to the rear of the very last cars (which came out in the 1950s, the DS appeared in 1955).

The headlights turning with the steering weren't a feature of the earliest cars. This came out later, when they went to a four-headlight nose. Only the inner lights turned.

Many of the cars had semi-automatic gearboxes with a hydraulically driven shift mechanism. Much like the Ferrari system used much later, it was essentially a manual gearbox that automatically operated the clutch and shifted the car. No torque convertor, so it was much more efficient than a full auto 'box.

They're all fabulous cars, but difficult to live with in the US. Parts are pretty hard to come by here, and very few places have any idea how to fix them.

Remember riding in the back seat of a DS,years ago in Paris on a Belgian block road and was amazed at how smooth and quiet the ride was, sitting in those plush seats.....never been in a car that smooth before or since then.

Paul F.

I take it you've never been in a Bentley or a Rolls?

When my chauffer gets back from the convenience store,with the Silver Spur, I'll go for a ride with him and let you know which one is smoother....if I can remember.

"Citroen" sounds almost exactly like "Zitrone"

German for "Lemon"

QUOTE (Graphikhaus @ Sep 3 2005, 08:32 PM)

"Citroen" sounds almost exactly like "Zitrone"

once we had a Citroen as a company car and all called it "Zitrone"

one day I had a minor crash with it - nothin' dramatic, just a damaged fender
since then my workmates called me "Zitronenfalter"

explanation: on the one hand it means to folt the Citroen, on the other hand its the german word for brimstone butterfly

I raced a SM Maserati engined Citroen from Monaco to Rimini once. When i say raced, i mean not sanctioned. The mountain roads heading down into the italian plains cooked one of the rotors, but man could that thing corner. Kept up with a Ferrari Daytona for a few seconds. lol.

A lovely piece of machinery, even if they took the engine cases out of the molds too soon which caused them to leak oil from every point.

Here's a cool citroen race photo i found.

check this out

link