the engine was removed from a 1976 targa. it has a green fan shroud, 11 blade fan and mechanical FI. owner says it was rebuilt 10 years ago, driven for a few months then pulled from teh car and placed on a shelf till now. there is a light oil haze under the turbo style lower valve covers. I can see the oil lines for teh chain tensioners, the case savers in teh block for the head studs and all teh engine hardware is nylock nutsl. it has nice heat exchangers on it. the clutch has an aluminum outer ring

what is it woth? he wants to do some horse trading with me and this engine is getting thrown in teh deal.

Mechanical FI? Are you sure it's not CIS? What does the intake look like? Carb-ish, or big black plastic? If plastic it's CIS. Does he have paper on the rebuild? If not, assume it needs one. As to value...who knows

CIS? How do I tell? it has a fuel dizzy looking thing off to teh side that has individual hoses going to the base of each intake runner. in teh middle behind teh fan it has 2 throttle body looking things that have an elbow hose connecting the two. one is bigger than the other. the big one has a disc diafragm.

looks like this guys engine

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/soukus/SOUK/Welcome.htm

is CIS good or bad?
can I slap some Webbers on it?

It's CIS. CIS sucks except in some Turbo applications. 40MM webers would be an improvement. I own a 1974 and a 1975 Factory 911 Carreras with 2.7 engines. The 74 came with Mechanical Fuel Injection(Euro Spec) and the 1975 with CIS. The 74 ran circles around the 75 until I put Webers on it and changed the Cams.

how much $$$ is it worth
high?
low?

QUOTE (sean_v8_914 @ Sep 3 2005, 02:26 PM)

how much $$$ is it worth high? low?

In my opinion, low of $1800.00 to a high of $2500.00. 1975 and 1976 model 911s had Thermoreactor exhaust systems to meet smog. The Thermoreactors made the engines run hot! Sad time in Porsche history.....

CIS 2.7



MFI

oops, I took too long.

QUOTE (seanery @ Sep 3 2005, 02:31 PM)

CIS 2.7

2 is the Auxillary Air Valve, 4 is the cold start valve, 5 is the crankcase breather cover, and 3 is the Auxilliary Air Device. In the lower picture, the control pressuer regulator is just below dead center in the picture. The shiny thing. On the top picture, you can't see it, but it's on the center intake runner on the right side of the picture, behind the auxilliary heater blower housing. The actual fuel pressure regulator is built into the fuel distributor, that device with all the hoses running to/from it on the right top side of the pictures. The Cap'n, at your service ..........................

CIS (aka K-Jet) appeared first on the late '73 911T. All '74 US-spec engines also had CIS, and CIS continued to be used until the 3.2 engines came out in '84. CIS requires fairly mild cam timing, so it's power limiting, but it's very reliable.

QUOTE

owner says it was rebuilt 10 years ago, driven for a few months then pulled from teh car and placed on a shelf till now. there is a light oil haze under the turbo style lower valve covers.

Personally, this pegs my BS meter. Who rebuilds a 911 engine ($$$$) and then drives it for only a few months only then to pull it and let it sit on a shelf for 10 years?

To me it's a core motor that needs a full rebuild until you can see some it run with some compression and leakdown numbers. Even if the story is true you don't know what 10 years of sitting has done to the engine. It's not worth much IMO. Also, as a core it's probably one of the least desireable motors. It would be much better to start with a 3.0L or a 3.2L if you were buying a core.

......to a point. It needs a tear down after sitting, but there's nothing wrong with a 2.7L and it sounds as tho most of the problems have been cured.
1000 bucks tops.
I paid 500 for a rebuilt longblock that sat on a shelf for 9 years and had never been run.

QUOTE (anthony @ Sep 3 2005, 04:29 PM)

QUOTE owner says it was rebuilt 10 years ago, driven for a few months then pulled from teh car and placed on a shelf till now. there is a light oil haze under the turbo style lower valve covers. Personally, this pegs my BS meter. Who rebuilds a 911 engine ($$$$) and then drives it for only a few months only then to pull it and let it sit on a shelf for 10 years? To me it's a core motor that needs a full rebuild until you can see some it run with some compression and leakdown numbers. Even if the story is true you don't know what 10 years of sitting has done to the engine. It's not worth much IMO. Also, as a core it's probably one of the least desireable motors. It would be much better to start with a 3.0L or a 3.2L if you were buying a core.

Cap'n thanks for the clarification...those notes were on the pic when I swiped it from the bird board.

sean - is this the motor in victorville?

no. its in south san diego. it sat at san diego foreign auto for 10 maybe 15 years. it has been indoors high and dry.
it IS CIS, thanks for teh clarafication guys.
what are teh webbers worth? they are in good shape but do need a rebuild
would I have to change teh cams right away? how much would that cost? I am new to the P-car 6 scene

thats all yall got to say?

QUOTE (sean_v8_914 @ Sep 3 2005, 07:24 PM)

what are teh webbers worth? they are in good shape but do need a rebuild would I have to change teh cams right away? how much would that cost? I am new to the P-car 6 scene

There is some ambiguity here. If your question is how much do a set of Webers (with "stuff") cost, the answer is at least 1500 for a good set-up (junk is cheeper, but not in the long run)....3000 for new PMOs.

You don't have to change cams. Read up on the subject. B Anderson's book will tell you more than you wanna know.

teh carbs are just carbs. no linkage, no manifolds.
how much should I pay for used linkage and manifolds?

You'll need PMO manifolds to properly cover the odd ball shape of the CIS intake ports on the 2.7....there are some other ways to cobble them together.... Last I looked, the manifolds new were 300 bucks. PMO can also supply linkage....dunno the cost.
Care must be used when buying used Webers. Wornout/crud ladened carbs are a nightmare that you don't want any part of. I only would buy them from people I trust. Talk to sixnotfour (Jeff Hienz) o this BBS. He may have some.

CIS is not a BAD induction system. I have had two motors with it. Kinda like D-Jet, once you understand it it's simple.

LOT's of spare parts out there and the little winky board has a a lot of guys that have screwed it up and learned from the mistakes.

But if you DO go with Carbs....the triples have a shaft issue that is an expensive fix. $3K for PMOs sounds expensive but compared to used Webers at $1500..... the PMOs almost are worth it....BTW, they ARE a work of art.

Last I heard they only talk via fax....odd but hey they are the only game in town for new triples....they make a 50mm that makes the 3.6 really scream. Of course the carbs make yer gas mileage go in the toilet....the cams need an upgrade to REALLY get what the carbs can give ya.....gee sounds like the T-4!!!!

When CIS is working correctly it is a very good and reliable system. Lots of folks don't like it because it is very complicated to troubleshoot or repair until you completely understand it.
Putting carbs on an otherwise stock 2.7 will get you a little improvement in throttle response and maybe a little increase in top end, but it won't wake the engine up unless you change to higher compression pistons and or hotter cams.

If there is any way to hook it up to an engine dyno and run the darned thing, that would be huge.
Otherwise you will have to assume everything needs to be rebuilt.

The difference between a good running engine and a core can be several thousand dollars.

the guy wants to throw the 2.7 in on a trade deal for my boat. he values it at 2K (in his mind) the carbs are part of the trade. I would guess the carbs to be a problem since one of them comes in a basket. the motor would have to be a solid $2k value for me to consider the rest of teh package deal to relenquish my boat (AKA money pit)

the thought of a 914/6 is sooooooo tempting

Linkage is around $90.00 to $100 bucks when I bought it about a year ago. If you go with the PMO's they will give you the whole kit including air cleaners, etc..

I was told by PMO that they currently have a shortage of PMO's 40mm, and they are not expecting to have them in for a few months. Just an FYI.

Good Luck with what ever you decide to do.

I got the manifolds, linkage, etc...for my 2.7 from Richard at PMO, as well as rebuild kits for my 356s Webers. He's a nice guy and the shop is pretty cool for a little shop.

I started the trade. I loaded up my van with all teh parts: 2ea 2.0 t-4, 2 sets of 96mm and teh 2.7 last night. I was going to arrange to deliver teh boat tomorrow but...

I woke up early, set the coffee to brew and went out to check out my score with dreams of 914/6 dancing in my head. I grabbed a 13mm and a 10mm and within 5 minutes, the CIS was on teh ground. another minute with the ratched reveiled the horror within. only 4 top head studs have been case saver'd. why not do them all? the front right intake had water in it many years ago. I rotated the engine about 1/4 turn and it locked up just as teh intake valve opened up just enough for me to peak inside to look down into the rusty, crusty cylinder. one head to cylinder was leaking combustioon too.

I have not delivered the boat but if I keep teh 2.7 I will have a good anchor for my boat

Not a grand...maybe 200 bucks.

a 2.0 type 4 core is worth 200 bucks so 200 sounds low for a 2.7 core
a grand seems high. perhaps teh 911 bbs on teh bird might yeild some answers

That was a semi-joke, but.......A motor that won't roll over
is worth only what you can part it out for.....taking into consideration your time and effort.....and that's a risk as
some or many of the higher value rotating parts may be hosed.

Where water is involved, it can get ugly. I have a freebie 2.7 settin' on the bench that is gonna take mucho ..."cleaning" doesn't describe the challenge. Dunno if it was worth the price

Take the sump plate off and see what comes out. check for bearing material at the least.
"Eddie914" just posted some interesting finds and "Porsche Rescue" did also.

If it wont roll over you have to expect it to be Hosed , (oops thats JP's line)
The crank and rods are the only thing left that is worth the most$$$, If they are any good.

2.7 california motor has had about the worst case senario , heat, traffic ,driven alot.
I expect it would have some pulled studs in its life time. PO probably band aid to keep it running " couple of inserts "

search the bird classifieds for 2.7 engine ,there is a Known runner 1000.00 with alot of extra's
Oh wait its sold to Eddie.

Not trying to negative, Expect the worst , Hope for the Best