Just got back from a couple fun runs through the hills with a friend. real nice guy. we took turns driving each other's cars -- he has a '82 911 SC and i've got my '75 2.0.

okay, granted: the 911 has some twice or more the raw power, a higher red line with a relatively wide power band, a more confident shifter with quicker throws, some seriously more macho brakes, and -- in his case -- A/C.

however, i found myself getting loose at lower speeds on turns that i normally fly through! and the 911 seems to break traction without much warning at all !! yes, the acceleration grins were a blast -- but modulating thottle, brake and clutch through the twisties was a scary, concentrated lesson in giving the car super-subtle input to avoid winding up in the ditch.

then he drove mine. he never got used to the shifter (and mine is one of the better-shifting 914s i've driven), but he seemed to have a great time lightly flicking it around corners with ease.

i never appreciated what an agile porsche the 914 is until driving his 911. conclusion? i need a 3.0 in my teener.

better start saving.

I've driven both, but not back to back.

I agree, the acceleration of a 911 is nice and the sound ooh la la!
But, the tail happy part scares me. I damn near spun my little underpowered 356 by
lift-throttle-oversteer! So every time I get behind the wheel of a 911 I get somewhat paranoid about
spinning it.

I feel totally confident, on the other hand, about doing just about anything with a 914.

Yes, 911s are not the best handling sports car in the world, and the 914 is.

My first 911 was an '80 Weissach model that ended it's life by flying backwards, and spinning just enough to drive up a pole. (I wasn't driving, but I can't say the same thing wouldn't have happened to me) This was all done @ 40mph on a semi-dry road. Up a medium grade, low angle right turn, throttle off at the transition and POW! SUCK!

..throttle off in any condition causes silly oversteer, certainly not as useable as that created in the same condition in my favorite 914.

I put it all over 911s, if I can keep them out of 3rd gear, plantation driving is for me.

We should be the ones thumbing our noses, and swilling latte'... oh hold on, I am swilling a latte'..

911s!

heh


M

I had an early (70) 911 for over a decade including a crossover period of 2 yrs where I also had a 914. So I was switching between them all the time, which was pretty interesting.

I think the 69-73 911's are more "balanced" overall than the mid and later flavors (74-89) and probably also the very early (65-68) ones. Actually in about 12 years I only recall spinning the car twice, maybe three times. Both times I recall were in the rain and were classic dumbass-throttle-lift-while-turning scenarios. In normal very spirited driving, I didn't have the "holy shit" experiences I know many 911 drivers report...maybe the mild suspension upgrades, high-end setup/corner balance, and DOT-R tires helped in this regard.

BUT...clearly I could (and did) do "things" in the 914 that I would not dream of in the 911. You know, pitching it abruptly into 90° corners at 50mph, passing other cars on high-speed banked fwy ramps, that kind of thing. The "pucker factor" was substantially lower in transitional situations, with the 914.

Although the 911's brakes, power and overall "quality" were significantly better...I very quickly became a 914 convert and found myself having more fun in that car. After I sold that 914 I bought another one within 3 months, if that tells ya anything...

And he put a 911 engine in it with the big brakes, if that tells ya anything.

911 front suspension too The "best of both worlds"...nothin' wrong with that, eh?


Of course the 911 weenies for some reason are still whoopin' my butt in the POC events. Let's see what my super short gearbox w/ LSD, and shedding some more weight, does to narrow that gap. They have power and tire advantage, but are packing more poundage (and rear weight bias) too.

The 914 rocks. 911s for going to the store and back.

Just kidding.

Both are great cars, but fundamentally different. We're on this site because a 914 is great! As a mid-engine car, it gives you great handling, a low center of gravity and forgiveness in hard turns. The 911 is Porsche's sportscar platform with good power, brakes, etc....

Which is better? I can't say. It really depends on what you plan to do with it. As a 993 owner, a 914 AX car owner, and a stock 914 2.0 owner, I like them all. I enjoy 130 mph in the 993 just as much as AXs in the 914, and I can't wait to restore my Dad's 914.

Get both.

Amen...I second that.

Apparently Milt (Zeke) is the latest to head down that road...I know quite a few guys who have had both models, either simultaneously or back-to-back.

Actually I would love to have an early "R-Gruppe" kind of street hotrod, and a comfy-cushy-reliable 993 or 996 variant, to keep the 914 company. Perhaps a well-optioned Boxster would do in place of the latter.

If a big pile of money and a 4+ car garage falls on my head, I will have to work on that...

BTDT....off loaded the 9elebens. Nice cars...if you're into nice.

I've got both. Apples and oranges, if you ask me. The 911 is more "civilized", where the 914 is more of my idea of a "true" sports car. I drive the 914 much more, just because it's more fun.

Spirited and aggressive driving:

914= easy, yet still fun (anyone can drive a 914 rather aggressively IMHO)

911= harder to drive, both mentally and physically....
more "rewarding" to me for some reason, maybe it's knowing that I defied the laws of physics...I like the fact that I can get the car to rotate and pitch the rear end out a few feet by either using the gas or letting go of the gas
(lift-throttle oversteer..hang on !!!! )

I do feel more connected to the road in a 914, but that could have a lot to do with my 911 having power assist steering and being heavier with more insulation.

I also feel a lot more confident in the 914, even a near stock 914 I'd take corners at speeds that I'd hesitate or slowdown a tad bit in the 911.

I've had a 914, uninteruped, since 73. Also had a 78 911 SC 3.0 for a few years. My brother has it now. There is no comparison. The 3rd gear acceleration of the 911 (60 to 110) is truly awesome. The top speed (personal experience is 158 mph with some left) of the 911 still feels stable on a road made for that kind of speed(like the interstate in arizona). The 914 would be scary at those speeds in its pure form. The 911 was made for speed. The 914 was made for handling. Neither are driver friendly cars. They require constant attention, with both feet, both hands, and both eyes. If I want to blow your doors off on the highway,911. If I want to pass you on the curvie mountain road,914

Doesn't putting a 200+ hp engine in a 914 change the driving handling characteristics? Right now in my stock 2L 914 I can enter pretty much any turn and slam the accelerator through the turn. You can't do that in a 911 and I'd bet you can't do it in a 914 with a 3L+ engine.

Some of you sound like you need to bash to the 911 just make yourselves feel better. I'm in the "get both" camp. I'd also love to own a 356 some day.

If I ever get a 911 it will probably be a 993 - the last of the air cooled 911s but with the newer style multilink rear suspension which helps greatly in keeping the rear wheels planted.

I have both a 911 and a 914

the 911 is a GT5 car, the class rules for GT5 are 2.2L, Ive managed to get about 200 hp out of my 2.2, and have got the car down to about 1850#

the 914 is a GT3 car, class rules 3.2L max. I have a warm 3.2 in this car. (its really in GT because of the engine, the chassis needs some development to be competetive) this car weighs 2050# (a pig by 914 race standards)

The 911 is a difficult car to drive at the limits. But when you get it right, WOW!!!! The 911 at the limits has much less cushion for operator error. My 911 feels like a pendulum the way it turns, I can lift and let the rear start to rotate, then back in the gas to slide the car through a turn... very cool.

The 914 is an easy car to drive, driving a 914 at the limit may be more difficult than a 911, Why, because the limits are higher!! My 914 has probably 270 hp, right foot steering is easy. The 914 feel like it rotates right behind may back when turning. i can make understeer, oversteer using brakes and throttle.

I feel fortunate to own both a 911 and 914, they both are great cars. They are also very different cars.. I have driven the 914 for about 8 months now and love it, Ive driven 911s going on 24 years.

I love driving the 911, its a test everytime you get into the car, I walk away from my 911 after a track session and check over my shoulder to see if the 911 is giving me the finger for not driving hard enough

After driving the 914 on the track, the 914 just naps and waits for the next turn

all this makes sense to me LOL

I also have gone both routes... started with 74 914 2.0, traded up??? to 70 911e, after a year went back to 914's(several - like most of us, kept running across deals) now have 73 914-6 conv. (BEST of both worlds) we teeners seem to be a LOT more tolerant of all porsche models, while the 911 croud seem to put down anything but 911's. teener folks seem for the most part to be a little less financially able to fix up our cars as the 911 group. ill put my 914 up against a 911 on a twisty backroad anyday! 914's forever!!!!!!

i think a 914-6 2.4 would be my choice. take an mfi engine and make it work in a teener. then you still have a good handling car but one with 911 'get up and go'!

I think 2-1200cc Kawasaki engines would rock! Screw LSD!

I hope I have planted a seed that drives someone mad, thank you for your time.



M

I have a '87 Carrera 3.2 myself and I still really like it.

If you can drive fast in a 911, you can drive fast in anything.
Knowing you can keep control of (I've only spun it once in the 6+ years I own it, and that was on a track, rain, shot tires, and mainly because I underestimated the corner) is a real kick.

The rear end will step out more easily, but if you know the car, it has a very big margin by which you can still get it back in line...
In a 911 you won't get away by driving crappy lines. It will punish you mercilessly.
It just won't allow you to drive like an ass

I have a lot of friends with (fast) 944s and if you see what those cars allow them to get away with... If I only think of lines like that, the 911 will spin

Still, the 914 is a much better handling car. It's margins go much further than the 911's, but I think that once you get there, the margin to correct the car is also a lot smaller in the 914 than in the 911

All in all, they're hard to compare. 2 completely different cars. I'd have a hard time choosing one over the other, so... get both

cheers,

Jeroen

i am guilty of owning both, but i want this.........


elebenthreeo with 935 heads, euro exhaust and beckman bros suspension.

Nope...you can't that's why I sold the Rocket.....I miss it but that thing was a bit overpowered.

Jeroen: Interesting that you mention the 944. I have a 951 and a 914. I have not drove a 914, or 911 for that matter, and am curious as to how it would compare to the 951. Is the driving experience of a 951 and 914 similar?

Soloracer,
I have both and the two drive totally different. I prefer the 914 over the 951. With a 3.2 in it (someday) they pull better than the turbo boost kick-in-the-pants of the 951. I feel more connected in my 914s. The 951s are balanced and nice, fast cars, but the teener is a better 'drivers car'.

It's hard to explain, but easy to feel!

Up until the point where you totally lose control in a 914, you feel absolute confidence.




Rails.... now about those stock seats..



M

Even though the weight distribution in a 944/951 is similar to a 914, I think they're hugely different cars.

The 914 is a very nimble car. A street legal go-cart. Everything is very direct.
The 944 is obviously a heavy car, which you notice in every little detail of the driving experience. It just doesn't give you as much feedback as a 914 or a 911.

For my taste, the 944 is just a bit too modern, luxurious and civilized. For most people this would be a big plus, and therefore they are great cars. They're just very different.

The 944 is a very easy and forgiving car to drive fast.

I owned a 944S for a little while (2.5 16V 190bhp) and I found myself actually cruising the highway at the speedlimit (very comfy).
That's something I just can't seem to do in the 911. It's always asking to be driven faster and pushed harder.

944s would make a very good and comfy daily driver, and the latest versions (the S2 and turbo's) are very fast cars.
Just like the 914, they are very underrated cars...

cheers,

Jeroen

i second that.
i was constantly on your (911) rear bumper during the hill climbing fun run in reno.
and i was driving my '93 jeep wrangler !!!

Andy

no. you actually need a 3.2L with FI

Andy

I think stock 914's are very forgiving cars and are easy to drive close to the limit.
When you start "improving" the car is where it starts getting interesting. Changing the suspension will just make the car more fun to drive. It's when you start doubling or tripling the hp, race car suspension, full cage that ties in the suspension points, larger tires and wheels, bigger brakes, losing weight, that makes these cars a handful as they are nowhere near as forgiving as a stock car.
The stock car is a momentum car that allows you to carry more speed thru the turns to make up for the lack of power. When you start increasing the straight line speed with a large increase of power you have changed the equation so the car is no longer a momentum car as you have to drastically reduce your speed for the corner, start your turn in, and slowly apply power thru the turn.

Interesting forum. I think this is one of the best ones I've read. I'm coming from a completely different perspective........ I'm not a racer. I drive my teener very "mildly", on nice, pretty days only. The top hasn't been on the car but maybe once all summer (got caught in a light shower).

Anyway.... I love the 914 because of the rarity factor, pure driving simplicity, open air, and.....well...... it's cool looking.

Honestly, I respect the history and performance of the 911, but I can't help but think "Yuppi mid-life crisis" when I see one....... Plus, EVERYONE has one... thats no fun.

I must admit, if I were to buy another P-car....... the one that seems to be attractindg the most interest in the 928. I've never driven one though. This forum has already talked about the 914, the 911, the 944, and the 951.

Can anyone give an educated opinion on the 928? I'm interested.

This needs to go to the "classic thread" catagory

My buddy John has a 92 928GT. It's sweet, sounds nice, very clean.

BUT, I believe they had to drop the motor to change the 2 plugs nearest the firewall.
No thanks!!

928 is a supercar, just like they used to say.

It's as heavy as any other supercar, not nearly as many $$$ to keep up (although very expensive) and it gets less respect than 914s ever did..

It launches like a 10,000,000hp dump truck, and it handles like a 10,000lb 914.. kinda.

It's a GT, it's kinda like some corvettes.. kind of a mix between mid-year/late vette, it's nice that they exist, but not the car for me.


M

Yea, thats what scares me......... engine maintenance....... and cost of maintenance.

Again, it's just one of those you don't see very often, thats why I like them.... maybe I'll wait till I win the lottery

Thanks!

I'm a bit at a loss as to what this all means.
In my experience....starting with a stock 914 with NO anti-roll bars & 95 hp, I found the STOCK 914 very unforgiving. It would spin like a top.....with no warning.

Various progressions in hp and moderate suspension/tire "improvements" cured much of this, tho I admit that at one point the thing was nearly undrivable.

In it's latest iteration, the car is much more forgiving.
It can be a handful (one must be carful with the loud pedal), but the speeds are much higher, both in a straight line and around corners. Tho my driving skills are marginal, I can make it push, oversteer, or be neutral....all in one corner. Recovery from lurid oversteer is now possible.

Like I said, my driving sux, but here's testimony from someone who can drive.

From the PP BBS & Doug Skinner:

Just finished co-driving the "Ulf" mobile this past weekend at a local SCCA 2 day auto-x. My god... what a surgical tool. JP's well developed 914-6 devoured the competition. Made my Kermie machine feel down right sluggish in comparison.

This was my 1st drive in a prepared 914-6. I never believed all the hype about 914-6's being able to drive circles around 911's, but I'm changing my thinking now. The "Ulf" mobile with it's 15x7 and 225 Hoosiers all 4 corners stuck like glue with the warmed over 2.7 providing rocket booster thrust coming out of the corners. The car was blisteringly (that's a real word isn't it?) fast. Sounds like I'm writing for Excellence or something...

I'm still somewhat shocked by how nimble and responsive JP's car was. The car is obviously light, ~2100 lbs or less, which helps a lot. Sticky auto-x tires make a big difference as well. My tires are likely over 4 years old, not so sticky anymore. The recent changes JP made to get rid of the understeer worked like a charm. I never had any problems with the car pushing, but instead was able to get the backend out bigtime coming around the big sweeper at the far end of the course. The brakes were much better than mine too. They never locked up on me once during the weekend; normally I'm fighting this a bit.

All-in-all, an exciting weekend. Thanks to JP for sharing the "Ulf" mobile with me. What a ride!


__________________

Have not driven many stock 14's but the one's I have driven handled fairly well. All of then could have benefited from something, replacing the rubber bushings, shocks, whatever. None of them would spin like a top without considerable work on my part.
I think we're only fooling ourselves to take a 30 year old car and want to explore the limits when we have no clue what some of the previous owners have done to "improve" the car, everything from toe out in the rear, weight jacking with the adjusters, to a bent trailing arm. Sometimes you think it's mission impossible.

....Or a Boxster?

I have both a 914 and '74 911.

The 911 is a little more comfortable for longer trips. The power is adequate. And most everyone recognizes the 911.

The teener, handles like a go cart, is more stable at 100 mph than the 911. But driving more than 4 hours at a strech is challenging.

The only downside to the teener is: You can't get a BJ in the back seat like a 911.

Can't wait to get the 6 running....

951 compared to a 914??

I've only driven one 951, I didn't like it, everything seemed too "heavy" ...
what I mean is every control for the driver needed more grunt to accomplish, the steering took too much effort as did the shifting and even the gas pedal was hard to push down....

The owner of the 951 took one drive in my 914 and started to have buyer’s remorse

Now this was just driving around town, so I'm sure it's a different experience on the open road or the track. I'm betting the 951 would be way better on the freeway than the 914.

With an older 911 and 914, you know they are from the same manufacture in the way they drive and feel, but with the newer 911's (even my '91) and all the water-cooled cars you get a feeling that they are influenced or have been touched by another builder, such as Audi (I used to have an Audi Quattro)

My experience with stock vs. modified:

Stock my 914 was very forgiving, and I could see the limit coming from a long ways off. There weren't a lot of surprises when it came to losing traction - you had more than fair warning before it happened. I autocrossed my 914 stock and never spun and rarely hit a cone.

In it's current itteration the car is much faster around the cones (about 8 seconds per mile) but the line separating full control/out-of-control is much narrower than before. You can definitely tell when you get to the limit, but it's easier to accidently cross it than it was in the past. Now I'll counter this by saying the car is easier to drive now. What I mean is that while the limit is more sharply defined, the car is much easier to control when you are within the limits. Maybe this is what JP was saying? Anyway, I like the car much better the way it is now, than when it was stock.

-Ben M.

ps - ALL 914's are "momentum cars". The ones with more power just have more momentum.