Dave (germaneighter) is stranded on I-40 in New Mexico about half way between Albuquerque and Tucumcari. He is on his way home to Tulsa, Oklahoma from California.

He has what he thinks so far is a fuel problem. He suspects the trigger points but can't really verify whether he has fuel pressure or not. He verified that he has spark.


This is a '74 2.0, stock D-jet.

Is anybody close enough to help?

Can anybody help him with diagnosing the problem?


He can be reached at 918-691-9155

I can be reached at 626-893-7474




Andrew

Turtlegirl will be trying to help, but if anybody can help with suggestions on parts to take and/or roadside troubleshooting tips, please let us know.

Andrew

take a fuel guage.....

and a AAA card.

b

Joe O'Brien lives close.

914RS Please pick up the white courtesy phone for an important message

I think Joe and Lucky are still in Florida.

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Oct 1 2005, 03:21 PM)

I think Joe and Lucky are still in Florida.

They are in Florida.

Andrew

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Oct 1 2005, 04:15 PM)

take a fuel guage..... and a AAA card. b

Stop it...

what gives?

Fuel filter and fuel pump if Liz (turtlegirl) has one layig around. Britt was right, a fuel pressure gauge would be helpful.

Aw hell, it's easier to say bring all of the fuel and FI parts and tools Liz can scrounge up. Whatever she ends up using I'm sure will be reimbursed or replaced later.

Let's get 'em back on the road! If that wasn't almost 8 hours away I'd go help. Or if I'd seen it earlier today instead of bathing in fuel under a 914.

Oh well... Got an update? How about a cell for Dave orLiz? I might have Liz's cell around here somwhere.

fuel pump, wiring....


let's put it this way....

should bring enough to rewire the system (jump fuel pump to +12V on coil) so they can at least get home.....

b

QUOTE (Gint @ Oct 1 2005, 07:28 PM)

............ Oh well... Got an update? How about a cell for Dave orLiz? I might have Liz's cell around here somwhere.

I haven't heard from either of them since I talked to Liz about the time I first posted this. Hopefully no news is good news. Dave's cell is in my original post, but again, it is: 918-691-9155

I will PM you Liz's cell.


Andrew

I'll try Dave as soon as Bruce Lee finishes kickin ass.

Liz's babysitter has her cell phone and doesn't know anything. Dave didn't answer, but I left voice mail with my cell number asking for an update and wishing him luck.

Hopefully we'll hear something.

Still haven't heard anything. Update? Anyone?

OK. Just got off the phone with Dave. Here's what happened. Turtlegirl gave Dave a call and offered help (thanks!), but unfortunately she only had tools to offer, no spare parts.

Dave was able to get the car started and running well enough by constantly pumping the pedal (car would not run with a constant pedal position) and made it to Santa Rosa where he and his daughter spent the night. His cell phone died about 7:30 last night so he was not able to return Gint's call.

Dave's wife brought their trailer from Tulsa which is an eight hour trip. They have the car loaded on the trailer and are about an hour and a half into the return trip.

Hopefully the rest of their trip will go well.




Andrew

So did he make it? I told him to get to either Tucumcari or Santa Rosa, and stop for the night, if he didn't feel comfortable going all the way to Amarillo. Unfortunately, there are NO german auto shops, etc ANYWHERE but Santa Fe and Albuquerque. I had to work last night, and Dave's cel was breaking up when I was trying to give him other numbers!

I'm glad he didn't have to go any further than Santa Rosa!

I'll keep an eye out for an update. (I have to work again tonight...)

Liz

that's what happened to my car.....

tank sock filter was plugged made it real hard ot run the engine.....

bet it pinged.....

do the tank dance dave.....



b

QUOTE (TurtleGirl @ Oct 2 2005, 10:42 AM)

So did he make it? I told him to get to either Tucumcari or Santa Rosa, and stop for the night, if he didn't feel comfortable going all the way to Amarillo. Unfortunately, there are NO german auto shops, etc ANYWHERE but Santa Fe and Albuquerque. I had to work last night, and Dave's cel was breaking up when I was trying to give him other numbers! I'm glad he didn't have to go any further than Santa Rosa! I'll keep an eye out for an update. (I have to work again tonight...) Liz

I'm sure he'll make it OK. If I hear from him, I'll update the thread.


Andrew

Dave left me a voice mail (thanks Dave!) and let me know that they were rescued and resuming travel to OK.

I have to go get my own stranded 914 now.

Thanks to all those who called and offered assistance. (Mike and Liz especially.) While in Santa Rosa I poked a hole through the fuel filter in case it was clogged. It did not make a difference. I think it may be the FI trigger points. I dont think it is the fuel tank filter because when I pulled the fuel filter off the line to poke through, fuel ran out of the upstream line so fast. Maybe not a good indication of tank filter condition....any thoughts on this?

I will post what the actual problem is when I find it. Today is state fair day for our family so I won't get to work on it until tonight. Time for funnel cakes and turkey legs....

Thanks again to all.

Andrew,
Thanks for the hopitality and concern.

Dave
back in OK

Glad you guys are OK.

Just a piece of advice. If you leave em on jackstands where they belong, they won't break down.

Dave

QUOTE (germaneighter @ Oct 3 2005, 07:43 AM)

While in Santa Rosa I poked a hole through the fuel filter in case it was clogged.  It did not make a difference.  I think it may be the FI trigger points. Maybe not a good indication of tank filter condition....any thoughts on this?

Dave,

Sorry to hear of your road dilemma - but glad you finally made it home.

If you haven't already, hook up with Brian at Rennsport in Tulsa. He's a good guy and can help you with advice, parts or service.

Also Curt Curtis (in Tulsa), has 3-4 donor cars and may be able to help with parts.

I'm looking into some tank treatments now, will let you know what I find out.

Later this month we'll be doing a Rt.66 drive. Maybe your car will be roadworthy by then.

where the hell is Curt?

QUOTE (seanery @ Oct 3 2005, 09:15 AM)

where the hell is Curt?

Sean,

Yeah, he's been missing hasn't he.

Well, he took a "real" job.

And right now he's having trouble getting internet service to his new place.

But he's busy with 914s.

He helped me pull my old engine. He's rebuilding a 2.L. Has a "Bumble Bee" he's helping a guy with. And has a few other projects.

I'll tell him you were asking about him.

QUOTE (Joseph Mills @ Oct 3 2005, 09:13 AM)

Later this month we'll be doing a Rt.66 drive. Maybe your car will be roadworthy by then.

Need more info about this alleged route 66 drive....


When and where?????

QUOTE (Joseph Mills @ Oct 3 2005, 08:13 AM)

Later this month we'll be doing a Rt.66 drive. Maybe your car will be roadworthy by then.

Who is we and what part of Route 66 are you planning to drive? Are you coming out to Arizona?

I am guessing trigger points.

Pumping the throttle strobes the TPS accel enrich signal and dumps gas into the engine. Sounds like it was not getting gas through normal rotation, which the trigger points are responsible for.

Make sure the wires didn't come off of the distributor!

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Oct 3 2005, 11:51 AM)

QUOTE (Joseph Mills @ Oct 3 2005, 09:13 AM) Later this month we'll be doing a Rt.66 drive. Maybe your car will be roadworthy by then. Need more info about this alleged route 66 drive.... When and where?????

Ya know, I thought we did the Rt66 tour last year in the fall, but actually it was the first of January of this year.

So I guess it won't be anytime soon.

We did the ol'66 between T-Town and OKC.

A few pics...

road

herbie

Maybe we should put something together for this late fall?



..

I installed new trigger points....no change. Let me back up and explain the chain of events:
While on the second day of our trip from LA to Tulsa, just outside Albequerque, the car died flat out. No power. No bucking. No misfire. Just flat dead. Checked points first and they apeared closed. Filed the points, guessed at a gap and it fired right back up. Thought I had it. Twenty minutes down the road, the same thing. I thought I might have gaped the points too big so I re-gaped with a slightly smaller gap. After a couple tries it fired back up. Both times the car had normal power after it fired back up. About twenty more minutes and we're dead again. We had spark on all cyl. That's when I started to suspect a fuel problem. The car started back up again without me doing anything new but it was down on power. If I feathered the gas pedal constantly, it would gain speed but if I held the throttle at a set spot the speed would drop off pretty quickly. When we stopped in Santa Rosa, NM I tried punching a hole through the fuel filter in case it was badly stopped. This did not help.
After getting the car trailered back to Tulsa, tonight was the first time a had a chance to work on it.

OK, new FI trigger points did not help. (so I have a spare set now...) I also changed plugs, Bosch Platinum. I had my daughter keep it runnung while I pulled each plug wire from the dist cap. Each plug wire had a srtrong spark but Cyl #4 is the only one that is making power. When I pulled 1,2 and 3 there was no change. When I pulled 4 the engine died. It is only running on one cylinder. It seems that #4 is the only cylider getting fuel.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

QUOTE (germaneighter @ Oct 7 2005, 08:50 PM)

It seems that #4 is the only cylider getting fuel.

check the grounds for the fuel injectors. you might have a lose/broken ground wire that intermittently cuts out injectors.
they're white and should all go to a single ground under the air-box ...

check the boots on the injectors as well. they could have wiggled themselfes out ...
Andy

All injector grounds are good. With the key on I can move the throttle plate and hear all the injectors clicking, one on each bank depending where the distrib is at.

dlg

Check your wire connections at the vital spots like MPS (very critical), trigger points, TPS, CHT. Make sure that the wires aren't frayed or cracked. If they are they could be grounding, or shorting and causing your problem.

I have solved some very strange issues lately by simply repairing bad spots on my harness.

I think you can rule out mps electrical. the mps is all or nothing - the throttle enrichment trick wouldn't work. Kinda sounds like he has gone into ultra lean mode. Since he gets enough gas by feathering the throttle it probably isn't fuel delivery. Temp sensor? Air leak? Or maybe since messing around in the distributor area brought it back to life some bad wiring to the trigger points.

I checked fuel pump capacity today. Ran it for exactly 30 seconds and got a little less than a pint. Book said it should be 1-1/2 quarts or more.

Can I rebuild the pump or should I buy new?

try another coil. you can have a bad coil that will give you spark when turning over or running at low rpm, but wont saturate fast enough under load or higher rpm. check coil wire too.

Troy,
Thought the same thing. Tried it early on without any difference. I've had a condenser do similar stuff but it was not that either.

Thanks,
Dave

your fuel pump test came in while i was writing mine.

while running the fuel pump are you getting +12.5 volts to the pump?
is there a spec. voltage for the test?

Troy,
Not sure if there is a volt spec.

I was running direct from an Optima that was fully charged.

Did the test twice with the same results.

dave

The car will run (sans headlights) until the voltage drops below about 9.5 volts (Crane Ignition, std fuel pump, etc).....that's what the guage read

I know because I went from Tucson, AZ to Riverside, CA on battery power alone (twoe fully charged normal batteries).

Spec on early pump would be about 1 quart per minute (0.22 gallon) - free flow and on the late pump just a little over a quart (0.27 gallon). A pint in 30 seconds would be in line.

Now, what is the pressure in the fuel rail?


Rebuilt pumps are available.......................

Let me catch-up all who may be interested on the current status. I cleaned the injectors and the car ran great! Drove it to work the next day, about 25 miles one way. On the way home I stopped for gas. Car would not start. In about a half hour car started right up.

Ever since then it has been running pretty good until last Friday. I noticed that the ambient temp seems to have a big impact. It has been cool the last few weeks, 60's. Last Friday it was back up into the 80's. Friday, after the car warmed-up it died. I hooked-up the fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail at the cold start injector hose. Although there was some preassure in the rail when I pulled the hose off, the gauge read zero when I was cranking. After about 10 minutes the gauge started to show some pressure. In a couple more minutes it started and had 30 psi on the gauge. 10 minutes later it died again. 10 minutes later it ran again.........

Do you think this is a fuel pump problem or an in tank fuel filter problem? Any other ideas?

Dave in Tulsa

I just replaced an intermittent fuel pump. While testing the pump in a tub of gas in the garage, it would pump and then quit, pump and then quit, you get the idea. But first you want to rule out plugged fuel filter, kinked fuel lines etc.

QUOTE (Gint @ Nov 6 2005, 11:30 PM)

I just replaced an intermittent fuel pump. While testing the pump in a tub of gas in the garage, it would pump and then quit, pump and then quit, you get the idea. But first you want to rule out plugged fuel filter, kinked fuel lines etc.

i thought this wasn't possible. I suppose my fuel pump really did cause my FI to die.

b