I have a 2.2 that I recently did a top-end on. As you know I am new to the SIX's and am not familiar with their NORMAL sounds.

When I rev slowly the engine everything is fine but when I rev the engine fast and let off the throttle I can hear a tap/rap coming from the timing chain housing on the (123) side. when I put my hand on the housing I can also feel what sounds like the chain hitting the housing. It's not a very loud sound but it is there. Since I am now hyper sensitive to any sound I noticed it

I found a sound file of a car with a failed timing chain tensioner and mine sounds nothing like that. It only happens coming off throttle

If anyone is near West Chester or Philly and wants to help and hear my engine please e-mail me. Kerrys914@yahoo.com.

Cheers

Do you have the oil feds in there? If so, do you have the restrictors in the oil lines?

No, I have the older style with the collars but they are not original. Everything look fine when I had it opened up.

I am not sure if a little tap/rap/tap is normal when coming off full hard throttle.

Cheers

I hope it's nothing serious.

I want to hear that sound file, too.


KT

If they are the manual adjusters, I ran into this with a six last year. Instead of adjusting them back to take up the slack, I put in the oil feds.

Your loosing your tensioners. get new ones.

When you accelerate the slack is mostly taken up. When you decel it comes back. Your chains are hitting things.

Maybe I'll breakdown and get the Oil feed tensioners. What is the best price for the kit?

$500+ at PParts

Kerry, try EBS, (800) 462-3774.....I heard they had the best price. Let us know what you find out.

Will do

Here is the file (NOT MY CAR) I was using as ref. My engine does not sound like this at all. This is sound file is more hollow sounding

http://home.comcast.net/~lfogelson/


I'll call them ASAP

Looking at about $520 shipped with a new Timing chain and new longer right side oil fee hose (the early cars need this).

On the older style tensioners what does that little bolt on the side do?

I can get the basic kit for $450 for you plus shipping. But I cannot seem to get a hold of little oil fitting thingy for the earlier engines. Since you would have to source that out separate, not sure if I could save you any $$$

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Oct 20 2005, 11:37 AM)

On the older style tensioners what does that little bolt on the side do?

Trying to picture it. Can't remember.

There is no adjustment if they are the stock spring loaded ones.

You can see it here

Still don't know. I have only ever taken those off and tossed them. Probably helps hold the spring in place or plunger?

You have the stops on, that alone probably saved valves from hitting pistons.

total WAG, but are your chains old and stretched causing the idle arm to hit the chain house? In any event, if you get pressure fed tensioners, get new chains.

The chain age is unknown

I'll pull the engine in the next few weeks and take a look at things. The photo above is from my tear down last winter

Cheers

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Oct 20 2005, 03:37 PM)

On the older style tensioners what does that little bolt on the side do?

bleedscrew...
you have a 911 Haynes, yes?

Thanks.. I don't have a Haynes 911 repair manual. I used Wayne's and B. Anderson's books for most of my reference (and the two boards) for the engine work I did.

I didn't bleed the tensioners at all when I installed them. I think they are somewhat new. They used a alum. spacer on the tensioner wheel..I think this is a later style tensioner..???

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Oct 21 2005, 10:03 AM)

I didn't bleed the tensioners at all when I installed them. ... I think they are somewhat new. They used a alum. spacer on the tensioner wheel..I think this is a later style tensioner..???

there are many updates through the years...
but if they have a bleedscrew, they can be bled using the documented procedure.
rebuild kits are available too -- if you go that route, check the parts very carefully against the list; there are many small parts and when i got mine, the were just in a cardboard box. amazing that *any* of the small parts survived - i would have expected them to have been sealed as a kit inside a plastic bag, but no... took 3 kits to get enough parts for 2 tensioners...

but if they're in good shape you could try repeating the bleeding procedure which wouldn't cost you more than (possibly) new chain cover gaskets. you don't have to pull the engine to do tensioners although it might be easier than doing it at ground level. if you have a lift or a way to get the car really high it might not be too bad.

Thanks.. I can only get the car on ramps so that doesn't leave much room to work on the engine

Maybe I can get some shop time with a lift somewhere

Man...I need one of those lifts BAD.. $1000 hum

Pulled the cover off and took a looky

The collar on the tensioner push rod is not touching the body of the tensioner?? Wouldn't that be touching if it failed?

Also, their is room between the top of the tension wheel and the housing..so my chain is okay.

I'll see if I can get a photo tonight... I don't see any marks on the housing either??

photo

There is a chance I didn't bleed them when I reinstalled them.

Since they are not oil feed type the oil in them is sealed and, I assume, dampens the spring?

yes the oil dampens the spring. The chain tensioners are like little shock absorbers. There is no need to bleed them unless you have disassembled them.

The tensioner should be very hard to compress.

Well when I took the engine apart last winter I did remove the bleed screw on the side of the tensioner.

I am removing the tensioner tomorrow and will bleed it.

Open the bleed screw and NO oil came out.

I added oil and proceeded to bleed the tensioner by pumping the piston un a container of clean oil.

How hard should the rod be to push down? It has sopem tension but I can do it by hand. It pushed back up every time..I would think it would fall into the body it it failed, which is why the collar would be needed.

THe tensioner has the 930 part number so I think it was repaced by the PO with teh 1980+ tensioner, just not the oil feed type.

THanks

you should not be able to compress it by hand, although I'm not sure what you mean by "by hand". If you're thinkin like putting your hand around the body and using an un-aided thumb - no way. I've never measured the force required, but I'm thinkin like 75 lb. I have to use a vice to compress them.

Dam.. I can use my thumb to push the rod into the body.

I actually like the idea of using older tensioners and the collar. IIRC the collar will not work/fit on the hyd feed tensioners. The collar worked.

Guess I will be checking on new tensioners this weekend. SOB

This is not the news we wanted. Arrgh.

You'll have it ready soon. Keep goin'.


KT

Kerry ,was it hard before you opened the bleeder,if so it probably needs more oil and proper bleeding, your choice,
Take the collar off , youll see a snap ring take that out then a tin shield and a spring,
you will see an alum. disc with a collar pointing up along the shaft,grab that with some pliers an pull up out of the tensioner. put some motor oil in it . then with a wire find the hole around the piston down in the oil .with lite pressure ,push down and it should open the valve , and you can move the shaft up and down slowly. This will bleed the lower chamber.Add more oil if necessary.
Then fit the alum piece back in and with resting on the oil crack the side bleeder push the disc back into the level that you can put the spring and snpring bak in .tighten the bleeder .
actually put the spring and disc back in and snap ring.
Should be rock hard .
Like others have stated you should need a vice to compress,.slowly
From memory so might not be 100% accurate . The Capn rebuilds em.

In my research I was under the impression that replacing spring tensioners was only slightly cheaper than upgrading to Carerra pressure fed tensioners. I'm curious to see what you find.

Your right the kit is 455. , The old style tensioners are about 190. each

Well I just spent about 30mins bleeding them and they are now ROCK hard.. I think I had two issues..The first was I opend the bleed screw during my top-end rebuild...STUPID..

The next was the crush washer was not sealing. I could hear air leaking by as I compressed the tensioner. Grabbed one from my carb set and bleeded it again...

SWEET.. I will let it sit for a few and see if it changes. Now I guess I better pull the other side off too.. I am glad I had those collars...

Thanks guys

Maybe I will drive to the PCA ax tomorrow in the teener

There in lies the rub on the collars.
Too many people don't recognize that "noise".
The collar pounds the shit outta it's self .....then the whole works fails.....along with valves, pistons, yada.
If a chain jumps a sprocket, it *really* gets ugly.

True..

It just seems to me a mechanical stop seems better then nothing. Are the hyd tensioners better made and LESS pron to failure?

If a hyd tension fails the same bad Sh!# happens. With collar, if there is a failure at least you have a chance of catching it. I think for the non-DIY owners they (the collars) maybe a bad thing. I am learning the noises of a SIX and even though I am new to them..I knew the slight noise I heard wasn't right...

Cheers

The fact is, your ten. didn't fail, you kilt it
Neither are prone to failure, the oil fed jobbies are less so.

Ya done good catching it. Failure is usually gradual....or so I understand....so there is time with either.

A pressure fed tensioner can be modified to have a fail safe. You pull the tensioner apart, and install a a small piece of aluminum in the bottom of the tensioner. If the tensioner fails this little block prevents the piston from compressing completely

Are you doing this work with the engine in the car?

If so, you're a WILDMAN


I was out hitting the mountain roads today and started hearing this noise, too.

I cleared my throat and my ears popped from the elevation and all was good.


KT

Yep on my back and the car on jack stands.. PITA..

Well the tensioners are hard and lets hope things go well. The battery is dead so I am charging it now. I hope to piss the neighbors off around 9:00PM tonight when that SIX barks through the triad....once again.

You are a WILDMAN

barking is gud


KT