so i decided to change my oil.
the car was running fine, very strong, before i attempted anything

i got an oil filter cap wrench and a strap wrench to get it out.

i got the old filter out and replaced it with a bosch 3402
i tightened it well, maybe too well.
filled it with oil to max line, no more.

then i started it and i found my oil light to be on so i shut it down.
i checked my oil and it was reading empty. what the hell? i just filled it!
so i look under the car... ...and find that the car had puked all of the oil out from somwhere around the oil filter.

so i take the filter out and put a new one in and fill it again.

i didnt start it right away i changed my brake pads and went and got more brake fluid and fast orange(that stuff is the work of god)

so then i started it again and it puked all the oil out again
oil came out from the same general area. all of it...
again it was a bosch 3402

so what is going on?
did i break anything?
is the bosch 3402 the correct oil filter?
did i break or lose a seal?
how can i fix my car so that it will run, for the first time in about a week?

please please if anyone has any information please help.

id like to have it running for tomorrow night so i can go on a date with my girlfriend in the 72 914 as opposed to the lincon continental(the boat that dosent handle at all)

anyone have any ideas?

The oil filter mount is attached to the case by two bolts. It's conceivable that you could break this piece, but I've never heard of it. Perhaps the filter is not seating correctly. I don't know the Bosch filter part number off the top of my head, but it could be the wrong one. Do you still have the old one you could put back on to test?

I just looked at Kragen's website and it is suggesting the 3402 also. I believe I might have that one on my car too. Did you cross thread the filter and it is hanging up halfway on?

i do have the old filter but i dont know if i wanna waste another 3qt of oil on a dirty filter

i could have cross threaded it but it went on too smooth. it felt like it fit. and i cant imagine i did it twice, i mean this isnt the first time i have threaded a screw.

ill check those bolts tomorrow.

I'm starting to think you have the wrong filter.

I just checked my "engine graveyard" and there was one with a Bosch 72137 filter on it.

Other acceptable (actually preferred) filters are these two.
Mahle OC-28
Mann W 920/17

Side note: the threads on the filter are 3/4-16 UNF.

Take those part numbers with you to your local parts store and have them interchange those numbers. They should be able to then get you the right filter. You can try a VW shop as well. Most should be able to get you a workable filter.

setting my alarm now to get up and head to as many shops as necessary to find a working filter

thanks for those part numbers
they are inspiring some hope

Shaggy,
Check to see if the old oil filter still has the rubber O ring on it.

You might of put a new filter over an old O ring if it still on the engine......

Two O rings = leak!!

Twystd1

Always go with the Mahle!!

QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Oct 29 2005, 02:47 AM)

Shaggy, Check to see if the old oil filter still has the rubber O ring on it. You might of put a new filter over an old O ring if it still on the engine...... Two O rings = leak!! Twystd1

i have checked the o ring many times on all of the filters
on the engine it self where the filter goes there is no o ring

on the oil filter there is one o ring

that mahle oil filter was the kind that was on it originally
but then i put the bosch on and it all went to hell

Stay away from Fram, Purolator and Bosch filters for your 914.
Use only Mahle OC-28 or Mann W 920/17

do you guys think that could be my entire problem?
i have checked and there was never two o rings

Maybe by coincidence, you happend to blow out an oil galley plug right after changing the filter. I sure hope not though.

what is an oil galley plug and how hard is that to fix if i did and how could i tell?

one time I changed the oil and the engine chose that occasion to blow a case galley plug. thanks alot. well, better then than out on the road. if so, engine has to come out. in fact, if so, best to take the engine all apart and put threaded pipe plugs on the 4 in front of the flywheel and the 2 next to the filter console. put a couple qts in and look up there while cranking (but dont start engine - ground coil output wire) good luck

It's cross-threaded,

Comments?

Suggestions?


John

cross threaded?

this is why you dont use a wrench to put an oil filter on. hand tight, and MAYBE snug it up with a wrench if so inclined.

the part bolts on to the case. find someone with an oil filter housing and get a new gasket. and go on with life, and chuck the oilfilter wrench

no harm no foul, figure youll be in it 20 bucks + another 4 quarts of oil.

CHEAP LESSON

I am hearing from Shaggy (my son) that after much effort to remove the oil filter housing (and removal of the engine bar) that he and his pal could not remove the top bolt.

He seems convinced the engine will need to be dropped in order the complete this task (seems the oil cooler is in the way).

How about using a properly sized die to clean up the existing threads?

What size would that be?

John

you can remove the engine carrier bar with the engine in. just support the engine and unbolt the 2 at the end of the bar and the 2 in the middle of the bar. hopefully, it's a 73 or later.

QUOTE (type47 @ Oct 30 2005, 04:21 PM)

you can remove the engine carrier bar with the engine in. just support the engine and unbolt the 2 at the end of the bar and the 2 in the middle of the bar. hopefully, it's a 73 or later.

Already done, no joy....

A 72' 1.7L

John

hey john, i have an oil filter housing. If you want it, PM me.

how can i get my oil filter assembly off?

i have taken off the belt tensioner for me ac and taken out the engine mount bar
and i still cant reach the nut on the top of the oil filter assembly

if i could loosen the oil cooler and move it vertically about 1/2 an inch i wuld be able to get a wrench in there to take it off

is that even possible to do?
do i have to drop the engine?

the car is a '72 1.7

I just checked my "spare" motors and there is absolutely positively no way you're getting that top nut off with the impeller housing in place. You'll have to remove it. The oil cooler can stay. You just need to remove the impeller housing. You can do it with the engine in the car. You must remove the front engine tin, remove the fan bolts, remove the four nuts holding the housing on and pull it out of the way enough to reach the top oil console nut. PITA, but do-able.

QUOTE (McMark @ Oct 30 2005, 10:18 PM)

I just checked my "spare" motors and there is absolutely positively no way you're getting that top nut off with the impeller housing in place. You'll have to remove it. The oil cooler can stay. You just need to remove the impeller housing. You can do it with the engine in the car. You must remove the front engine tin, remove the fan bolts, remove the four nuts holding the housing on and pull it out of the way enough to reach the top oil console nut. PITA, but do-able.

Thanks Mark,

What do you think of the "die idea" for cleaning up the threads?

John

Yet ANOTHER instance of WAGuessing and speculation. I've never seen a filter console spontaneously fail, and I've been wrenching on 914s for close to 33 years. Put some oil in it, jack the thing up, and have someone crank it over (coil point wire unplugged) while you actually LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ENGINE! Novel idea, right? You could actually figure out where the leak is! REALLY! Then, and only then, you should ask this list what is the most time/cost effective way to repair it. As Joe Friday often said, "just the facts, ma'am". People are telling you to clean the threads on the filter pipe, yet you clearly told us the filter spun on easily. They're condemning the Bosch filter, yet you've used 2 different new ones. How likely are they to both be bad? BTW, "3402" is NOT a Bosch part number, so, right off the bat, we have erroneous information, not facts. In addition, the instructions printed on most quality filters read something like "Tighten by hand, 1/4 turn past the point where the filter is seated." Your wrench COULD have damaged the filter. The Cap'n

its a pretty vital part...... just get a spare from someone and replace it.

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Oct 31 2005, 08:39 AM)

Put some oil in it, jack the thing up, and have someone crank it over (coil point wire unplugged) while you actually LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ENGINE!

I agree with the Cap'n. You should be able to detect where the oil is coming from by cranking the engine over. You should also double check the seat on the oil filter housing. I have seen old o-rings still attached that look like they are part of the housing. Make sure the old o-ring is on the old filter, but check the housing anyway. You should really try and find out the source of the leak before going to the trouble of removing the oil housing, fan shroud, or engine. Once you remove any of those things it becomes more diffcult to find the source of a leak. From your description of the problem it sounds like the oil light went on immediately. This indicates that there is no pressure from the start and a fairly big gap in the oil system. There is something about the first time you change the oil on a different car that you are pretty much guaranteed to have at least one problem.

Since the weekend has come and gone you must have taken the Lincoln on your date. Although I can appreciate why you would want to drive the 914 on a date, my preference would be the Lincoln.

-Jeff

Capn the Bosch 3402 is a filter sold at a FLAPS (Auto Zone to be specific). Made by someone else with the Bosch blessing. Good filter and I had no problem with them on mine. But I agree on actually looking to see where it i coming from before doing anything to it.

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Oct 31 2005, 07:39 AM)

Yet ANOTHER instance of WAGuessing and speculation.  I've never seen a filter console spontaneously fail, and I've been wrenching on 914s for close to 33 years.  Put some oil in it, jack the thing up, and have someone crank it over (coil point wire unplugged) while you actually LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ENGINE!  Novel idea, right?  You could actually figure out where the leak is!  REALLY!  Then, and only then, you should ask this list what is the most time/cost effective way to repair it.  As Joe Friday often said, "just the facts, ma'am".  People are telling you to clean the threads on the filter pipe, yet you clearly told us the filter spun on easily.  They're condemning the Bosch filter, yet you've used 2 different new ones.  How likely are they to both be bad?  BTW, "3402" is NOT a Bosch part number, so, right off the bat, we have erroneous information, not facts.  In addition, the instructions printed on most quality filters read something like "Tighten by hand, 1/4 turn past the point where the filter is seated."  Your wrench COULD have damaged the filter.  The Cap'n

Cap'n, the word is that after close visual inspection, the filter spin-on nipple is cross-threaded.


I have not seen it, it is Shaggy's [Jim's] thing to resolve.


I feel fairly sure based on eyewitness reports that the cross-threading is at the heart of the problem.


Shaggy, (my nearly eighteen-year-old, son) did his first oil change, boffed it and he knows it.


My means of teaching young people is to let them resolve problems themselves, with only advice, up to the point of failure, whereupon I remove myself from "reserve" and then take a more "hands-on" approach.

I hold myself in "reserve" for two reasons:

1. It keeps me from getting greasy.

2. The young people seem to learn more.

You can be assured that when Shaggy gets back from school today the FIRST thing he will do is climb under that car for the "oil-in-the-face" drill.....

He never did it, as I never advised him to (that is where I depend on you'all).
I never claimed my advice was any good.....

I am now told that a certain young person theaded on the filter with an oil filter wrench (the sorta, socket-on-the- end-of-the-filter kind) and it went on like "butter".

I am surprised as Jim has quite a bit of mechanical experience and understood what a cross-thread was....

It is the correct filter as it was compared to the one he removed ----exact match-----.

The word from under the car is that the threads look redeemable, I am currently recommending that as a solution...

Comments?

Questions?

Suggestions?

best wishes and clean dishes,
John

P.S. Jim and I are having a fun time with the cars, he has fixed many things on the 72' car (some that needed to be fixed, some that did not) and I commend his ambition though "funding" and "watching" it can be a challange.

The threads are an integral part of the housing, not just a nipple like on some cars.

Drop the engine and replace it. You may clean up the threads enough to get it on, but you still have almost "stripped" threads and once you try to tighten the filter, the threads may "pull".

How many housings do you want John (or little John - Shaggy).

My opinion only....others may disagree, but I'm Ssssssssssssssslits and don't give a ......

QUOTE (SLITS @ Oct 31 2005, 11:08 AM)

The threads are an integral part of the housing, not just a nipple like on some cars. Drop the engine and replace it. You may clean up the threads enough to get it on, but you still have almost "stripped" threads and once you try to tighten the filter, the threads may "pull". How many housings do you want John (or little John - Shaggy). My opinion only....others may disagree, but I'm Ssssssssssssssslits and don't give a ......

agreed. pull the motor and replace the piece. if anything, it will show you how the motor comes out.

a local german shop might have the gasket for it....

AA

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Oct 31 2005, 10:16 AM)

QUOTE (SLITS @ Oct 31 2005, 11:08 AM) The threads are an integral part of the housing, not just a nipple like on some cars. Drop the engine and replace it.  You may clean up the threads enough to get it on, but you still have almost "stripped" threads and once you try to tighten the filter, the threads may "pull". How many housings do you want John (or little John - Shaggy). My opinion only....others may disagree, but I'm Ssssssssssssssslits and don't give a ...... agreed. pull the motor and replace the piece. if anything, it will show you how the motor comes out. a local german shop might have the gasket for it.... AA

Rat Farts!!!!

There is nothing Jim would like more that to pull that motor out of that car!

Slits the "sidewalk, fixem' in the dirt" mechanico is saying replace time.....

This is not good.....


Juan

P.S. I was just leaving with Laurie for Flagstaff to do a "cake" (in the 914) service call, Jim has a half-day today and the engine bar is already out....

Sorry, you can try the "cleaning thread" method and see if the filter holds...........

It may very well be just fine...........but..................

QUOTE (SLITS @ Oct 31 2005, 10:08 AM)

The threads are an integral part of the housing, not just a nipple like on some cars. Drop the engine and replace it.  You may clean up the threads enough to get it on, but you still have almost "stripped" threads and once you try to tighten the filter, the threads may "pull". How many housings do you want John (or little John - Shaggy). My opinion only....others may disagree, but I'm Ssssssssssssssslits and don't give a ......

Yep

I had in my mind that the die thing would work because there would not be a great "load" beside compressing the gasket.


I hadn't thought that we may need to change the oil on the car a few more times...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

spacious, my head, sometimes,


Juan

Hows the engine dropping going? Pictures? Updates? Was the filter housing really the cause?

QUOTE (Brando @ Oct 31 2005, 11:59 AM)

Hows the engine dropping going? Pictures? Updates? Was the filter housing really the cause?

Shaggy has not returned from school yet.

John

Well, what are you doing home at this time... don't you work?

QUOTE (Brando @ Oct 31 2005, 12:04 PM)

Well, what are you doing home at this time... don't you work?

Not really, mostly employed.....

John

Heheh, same here. I should be at the p-car shop today but I get a hospital visit instead (yay!)

QUOTE (Brando @ Oct 31 2005, 02:05 PM)

Heheh, same here. I should be at the p-car shop today but I get a hospital visit instead (yay!)

Finally going in for that sex change consulatation........Aaron will be overjoyed!

QUOTE (SLITS @ Oct 31 2005, 01:56 PM)

QUOTE (Brando @ Oct 31 2005, 02:05 PM) Heheh, same here. I should be at the p-car shop today but I get a hospital visit instead (yay!)  <_< Finally going in for that sex change consulatation........Aaron will be overjoyed!

Slits, ---Ron---- you always know just what to say.........

J

what's wrong with using FRAM filters?

QUOTE (meares @ Nov 1 2005, 06:02 AM)

what's wrong with using FRAM filters?

Oh, nothing at all if you want to use a sub-par piece of crap... Shoddy construction, cheap crappy materials, weak and failure-prone. Ever exploded an oil filter? I know two people who have on their 914. Both were Fram filters. Ever seen one of the web-pages where someone cuts open a new filter and looks at the construction? Every single one I've ever read has come to the conclusion that Fram filters are worthless pieces of crap.

Try a Google search; it'll open your eyes...

Mann or Mahle filters only for my 914. (I'll use Purolator or even Wix for my "other car". But I'd rather skip an oil change than use a Fram.)

--DD

QUOTE (SLITS @ Oct 31 2005, 01:56 PM)

QUOTE (Brando @ Oct 31 2005, 02:05 PM) Heheh, same here. I should be at the p-car shop today but I get a hospital visit instead (yay!)  <_< Finally going in for that sex change consulatation........Aaron will be overjoyed!

Nah, got my genital herpes checked out..

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PS: SLITS, might want to get your face looked at for herpes.

QUOTE (Brando @ Nov 1 2005, 11:39 AM)

QUOTE (SLITS @ Oct 31 2005, 01:56 PM) QUOTE (Brando @ Oct 31 2005, 02:05 PM) Heheh, same here. I should be at the p-car shop today but I get a hospital visit instead (yay!)  <_< Finally going in for that sex change consulatation........Aaron will be overjoyed! Nah, got my genital herpes checked out.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PS: Ron, might want to get your face looked at for herpes.

Ron, retort?

Exactly what I would expect from the cover boy for Herpes Quarterly.


Actually, I think he gave it to his car by the looks of it and the way it runs.

OH BTW John.....two not one, that's right, two are on the way.....gotta give the boy a chance to screw one up before he gets it right.......learning process ya know.....

QUOTE (SLITS @ Nov 1 2005, 01:10 PM)

OH BTW John.....two not one, that's right, two are on the way.....gotta give the boy a chance to screw one up before he gets it right.......learning process ya know.....

Thanks Ron,

John

QUOTE (Dave_Darling @ Nov 1 2005, 02:29 PM)

QUOTE (meares @ Nov 1 2005, 06:02 AM) what's wrong with using FRAM filters? Oh, nothing at all if you want to use a sub-par piece of crap... Shoddy construction, cheap crappy materials, weak and failure-prone. Ever exploded an oil filter? I know two people who have on their 914. Both were Fram filters. Ever seen one of the web-pages where someone cuts open a new filter and looks at the construction? Every single one I've ever read has come to the conclusion that Fram filters are worthless pieces of crap. Try a Google search; it'll open your eyes... Mann or Mahle filters only for my 914. (I'll use Purolator or even Wix for my "other car". But I'd rather skip an oil change than use a Fram.) --DD

After reading between the lines of your post I guess it is safe to assume that you don't like Fram filters.

Paul F.

QUOTE (pfierb @ Nov 1 2005, 05:29 PM)

After reading between the lines of your post I guess it is safe to assume that you don't like Fram filters.

Whatever gave you that impression???

--DD