Does anybody besides SCAT make 75mm stroker cranks for the 1.8 motor that are Cheaper than Scat?

DMR makes good cranks, also check Aircooled. net. About $450 for a crank.

Why 75mm?

I am running 78.4x96 and love the combo. Good reliability, lotso torque, and easy to assemble.

Tom

Doesn't anything over 75mm require machining the cases?

No, I am running T1 rods, however. They will drop right in.

Email me if you want more info on what I've done.

Later,
Tom

why t1 rods?

the extra choices/cheaper?

or is it because they are shorter?

i had a 75 stroker crank in a ga block. not much left on the rod bolt heads. t1 journals would be a good idea if you like to rev it up.

toms 2270 has VERY specific components. mod t1 rods, pin heigth is altered, lots more i think. if you intend to rebuild one you have to have all your ducks in a row.

kevin

Type 1 rods are longer, journal is smaller, stuff fits better, pistons with 22mm pins located for 78mm stroke. Reduced base circle cam. Reduces headaches, but planning and scope control to hold down price.

Carlos

76 2270 (parts are coming home this week)

Stay tuned for pics of my Headflow Masters heads.

sweet dude, keep us informed... I plan to start laying out for a 2270 next spring/summer some time... and am really watching what other people do in this area...

Yup,

You can run a T1 rod with a 78.4mm crank with modified crank journals for T1 rods. You get a little longer rod ratio to keep the piston speeds down.

Order up a set of KN HyperEutectic 96mm pistons from Aircooled.net that have the 22mm T1 wrist pin and a stoker location (for 78mm stroke) and you are well on your way.

Get a Webcam reduced basecircle cam (extra $10) and you should not have any case or cam interference.



A view of the case with the 78.4mm crank and the Scat I-beam rods.



Another shot of the case, you can see where I just "touched" the rods up for a little more clearance (to make me happier) and then they were balanced be end to end weighing. I took the extra matereal off the rod cap. They were all within .1 gram of each other.

I needed .140" cylinder shim to get a 9.5:1 C/R

Make a set of pushrod tube spacers with a lathe and a piece of 1/2" black iron pipe (it pushes the pushrod tubes out just a shade to keep 'em from leaking) and I capped it off with a set of Aircooled.net HD AL pushrods.

I've zinged the motor to 7500rpm once, but I usually keep it to 6500 or so.

Later,
Tom

Gene Berg is rolling in his grave now that he sees his Oil pressure relief cover sitting on a T4!!!! HAHAHAHAAH

This motor is full flowed for superior oil filtration and maximum cooling potential. The oil is cooled via an external cooler (on a thermostat) before it hits the motor.

This was the arrangment in the Bug, it will be close to the same in the 914. This way, you can get rid of the restrictive oil filter passage inherant to the T4.

Later
Tom

wow dude! I am impressed.

thanks for sharing!
it looks great and I'm sure it runs like a mofo!

i would call that a viagra shot. sure gave me a woodie. strokin'

Holy cow Tom, that's awesome!


M

Here's the proof in the pudding....

http://www.qtm.net/~persot/flowmaster_startup.WMV

http://www.qtm.net/~persot/drive_by2_video.WMV

It thumps... That motor will be in the 914 soon....

Later,
Tom

Great job Tom!!! Can you tell us how many hours you got into figuring everything out. How many other engines have you built? I've been collecting parts to build my first engine but I was thinking that a 2056 would be more manageable for a first timer. Your posts here make a 2270 sound easy. What do you think?

First off, Tom enough of the Type IV porn. My wife says I spend too much time on the 'puter and in the garage already.

Second, Anthony took the works out of my mouth. I was lead to believe the 2270 required all kinds of clearancing work to the case. Or is choosing the right parts the trick?

Which Type 1 rods are you using? Are they "stock" Type 1 in size only? Or actual T1's

Paul

Guys,

This is the first motor I have EVER built. Ever... I'm not kidding.

It takes a little homework and mocking up, but nothing *really* crazy. I put this one together twice: The first time the lifters let loose, here's the carnage from it: http://www.qtm.net/~persot/webcam/

It wasn't my fault, it was mispackaged lifters from SCAT. Oh well - live and learn. Aircooled.net took care of the problem like a champ.

So, I put this one together twice and helped my friend Grant put together a 2056 for his 912. Yes, the 2056 is easier to put together, but the 2270 basically the same thing. Just lots of checking of parts first.

The rods are SCAT I-beam rods with ARP bolts. Nothing special.

Putting the motor together is easy. It's getting the right heads, induction, and exhaust.

Heads, go to Headflowmasters and tell Adrian what you are building and he'll help you out. He's a good guy.

Send the whole rotating mass to Jake Raby for a balancing service (after you've mocked everything up to make sure it clears).

You might have to add an extra oil cooler just for those high RPM blasts (which WILL happen) and some highway driving. Get a setrab cooler pack and never look back.

I make it sound easy - but in the engine building reality, it's not that bad.

It's 90% preparation, 9% sweat, and 1% good luck...

Later,
Tom

Great reply Tom.

I'm building a 2270 than.

Thanks,

Paul

I have asked questions on the type4fourm and never seem to get a clear answer IMO.

There are alot of people with alot of things to say but if they would just give me a stright answer.

Paul

Paul (and anyone else)...

Feel free to email me offline, we can discuss more options concerning what I've learned with the 2270.

I get free minutes and long distance after 9pm (eastern time) and I'm happy to chat about it (when I'm not wrenching on the car or other things )

Later,
Tom

This scares me... does it scare anyone else ??

I know they have to add material and weld on the counterweights... but you think they could have done a little better job on cleanup.


B

I thought the same thing Brad. Everything else checked out fine. It was strange. If I do another motor, I would go with DMS for a crank.

Nice eye... Always a nitpicker... LOL

Later,
Tom

Does DMS have a website?

That was ugly enough to make me not stop to look.

M

Demello Machine Shop

http://www.demellocranks.com/

If I don't want to shim the jugs up to raise the C.R., and I don't want to machine the rods, and I use the fat Type I rods without moving the piston pin hole, and i want to keep my WebCam Hydraulic cam (no small base circle):
What is the largest stroke I can run?
75mm?

go with Demello, he just did my 78 and I was looking at his U.P.s shippments and he does almost everbody's cranks and rods. it seems like they all end up at his shop
350 for mine and same exact crank at fat 600$

Makinson... you shim the barrels to drop compression.

You use spacers to to compensate for rod length or stroke increase.

Be VERY careful with barrel spacers on 914's.. its already tight from the valve cover to the inside control arm ear.


B

Hi,
You never said what type of induction you intend to use. The think the biggest you can run on djet will be 2055. I do recall seeing a post on PP that some was running 2.2 with djet. No direct experience with that issue.

Here is my experience.

I used a 78.4mm crank, with piston pins located fo 78/80 mm stroke I had about -.058 deck. So .058*25.4=1.47mm deck in mm. The math answer is 76mm stoke should give .053 mm deck (.002in).

Size of the spacer will depend on the finished chamber volume of your heads, and what CR you will run.
.04 is the typical minimum. 60cc is the typical volume of a non-flycut 2.0 head. (My finished heads are at 52cc) Using these numbers, you would run 9.2:1. If your married to a hydro cam, you probably don't want to run this high. Play with this tool.

Aircooled.net engine calc tool

I have no idea if you can clear a stock base circle cam.

Both Tom and I used scat rods. I have gleaned from STF that the CB super race rod is smaller at the big end and requires less work or no work for 78.4 stroke.
CB Super Race Rod

Learn from my mistake.
Use belt sander and clear one rod. Send them out and let the machinist finish the others and end to end balance. I did them individually and still sent them out.

Engine width
I'm building without head gaskets. Stock width=x, new width =Y, head gaskets =1.5mm, my shims are .140
Y=X-(2*1.5mm)+(2*.140 in)
Y=X+.162 in.

To me, the marginal cost and work savings of doing 76mm stroke instead of 78.4mm is nothing. If you stroke, go carbs or aftermarket FI and do 2270.

I wanted to thank Tom publicly for keeping me in the game. There was a time early this year when I was going to toss the towel in. We corresponded a little and I was able to go on. My wife is looking for him though.

Carlos

76 2270 (2 years on blocks on 8/29/03)
76 project
74 (in the van, going to the dump on Saturday)

cgnj,
Great post with alot of very useful infomation. I'll be needing your's and Tom's advice in a few months as I start on my 2270 from a 2.0.
Knowing two guys that have actually completed the job will be a great help.

Paul

Whoh, don't be sending your wife on me, I'm in enough trouble already with my fiancee!!! LOL

Carlos, I was more than happy to help and I would also be more than happy to help anyone else. I am by no means an expert, but I have traveled down the road and it's not an easy one doing it alone.

Later
Tom