If this has been beat to death already on the forum, please post a link to the thread(s).
I would like to convert a 914 to SBC power, but Renegade and others claim that I will end up spending $10K for a modified 930 trans to handle the torque.
It sure seems like plunking in a front-wheel-drive engine/trans such as a 265HP Maxima 3.5L would be a cheap way to build a medium-power 914, without spending a fortune on beefing or upgrading the Porsche trans. Obviously, axles, shift linkage, etc. would be some work.
Neo's list of engine swaps did not list many front-wheel-drive engine/transaxle combos adapted to the 914:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...f=2&t=20374&hl=
I'm sure I'm overlooking the difficulties involved here, please educate me.
Full Version: FWD transaxle/engine swap
so what do you want? a medium powered or high powered car?
the stock transmission works fine for low to medium power levels (300ish, more if you don't beat the living cr@p out of it all the time)
the typical FWD engine/tranny combo is transverse, which in a 914 (do you have one yet?, have you looked in the engine compartment) would require extensive cutting and welding.
There will be no kits, you will be more or less alone and will have to figure it all out yourself. Chances are you'll butcher the car so badly that it'll have 0 resale value.
Have you priced the drivetrain from the Maxima? I bet you are looking at 3 to 4 grand for everything you need from the wreckers, then add 2 grand more minimum to adapt it if you are doing all the work.
It can and has been done with a Fiero V6 drivetrain ...a Dodge Intrepid V6 drivetrain and there is also a Ford powered 914 with the entire drivetrain from an Escort GT installed.
it's one of those projects that if you have to ask how to do it, you shouldn't be doing it.....
as much as I hate to say it, the entire drivetrain from a subaru would be your best best since it is already in the correct orientation for fitting into a 914...yes it's been done, no there are no kits and it won't be easy...
the stock transmission works fine for low to medium power levels (300ish, more if you don't beat the living cr@p out of it all the time)
the typical FWD engine/tranny combo is transverse, which in a 914 (do you have one yet?, have you looked in the engine compartment) would require extensive cutting and welding.
There will be no kits, you will be more or less alone and will have to figure it all out yourself. Chances are you'll butcher the car so badly that it'll have 0 resale value.
Have you priced the drivetrain from the Maxima? I bet you are looking at 3 to 4 grand for everything you need from the wreckers, then add 2 grand more minimum to adapt it if you are doing all the work.
It can and has been done with a Fiero V6 drivetrain ...a Dodge Intrepid V6 drivetrain and there is also a Ford powered 914 with the entire drivetrain from an Escort GT installed.
it's one of those projects that if you have to ask how to do it, you shouldn't be doing it.....
as much as I hate to say it, the entire drivetrain from a subaru would be your best best since it is already in the correct orientation for fitting into a 914...yes it's been done, no there are no kits and it won't be easy...
If if ever get good enough garage space and money I would pull the 1.8t and FWD transaxle from a passat or Audi A4.
First off, welcome to the club!
Secondly, Kennedy Engineering makes a whole slew of adapter plates for the 901 (Porsche 914) transmission. You can check out their site to see a list and call them to see what they'd charge you for a custom job if you really wanted.
Thirdly, like Mike said, the 901 tranny is generally good up to around 300 HP or so, providing you don't take it to the drag strip every Friday night.
One of our members here (Andyrew) posted all kinds of great info on his very budget-minded swap to a SBC.
And on the board, it'd be hard to not find someone that knew something about something. And in my experience, a little beer and food will go a long way toward getting some help in your garage on occassion as well.
A modified 930 tranny will cost a small fortune, but you don't need more then 300 HP in a 914 to go rediculously fast. So in my (very unqualified) estimation, but based on the hundreds of hours I've spent reading posts on this board, unless you're building a race car, I'd stick with the stock 901 tranny.
Secondly, Kennedy Engineering makes a whole slew of adapter plates for the 901 (Porsche 914) transmission. You can check out their site to see a list and call them to see what they'd charge you for a custom job if you really wanted.
Thirdly, like Mike said, the 901 tranny is generally good up to around 300 HP or so, providing you don't take it to the drag strip every Friday night.
One of our members here (Andyrew) posted all kinds of great info on his very budget-minded swap to a SBC.
And on the board, it'd be hard to not find someone that knew something about something. And in my experience, a little beer and food will go a long way toward getting some help in your garage on occassion as well.
A modified 930 tranny will cost a small fortune, but you don't need more then 300 HP in a 914 to go rediculously fast. So in my (very unqualified) estimation, but based on the hundreds of hours I've spent reading posts on this board, unless you're building a race car, I'd stick with the stock 901 tranny.
| QUOTE (funcrew @ Oct 31 2005, 10:52 PM) |
| Neo's list of engine swaps did not list many front-wheel-drive engine/transaxle combos adapted to the 914: |
because so few here have done transverse transplants.
Google the Fiero and MR2 V8 swaps...
By the time you start getting into levels that require a 930 transaxle, there's LOTS of other things you need to do, too. You'll need bigger axles, bigger CVs, bigger tires, bigger wheels to hold those tires, bodywork to clear those tires, vented brakes, anti-flex modifications (long supports or a cage), etc. So, don't get so upset about the transaxle, as it's only a part of a big expensive puzzle.
To do a transverse setup, you'd need to remove much of the rear trunk. You're also shoving the weight back in the car, which is not going to help your weight distribution much. It HAS been done, however.
A Subaru swap retains near stock weight distribution, and you can get anything from 100-300hp out of a bone-stock engine, depending on what you buy. Just using an NA EJ25 more than doubles the power over a stock 1.7, yet you're still well within the envelope of the stock transaxle.
To do a transverse setup, you'd need to remove much of the rear trunk. You're also shoving the weight back in the car, which is not going to help your weight distribution much. It HAS been done, however.
A Subaru swap retains near stock weight distribution, and you can get anything from 100-300hp out of a bone-stock engine, depending on what you buy. Just using an NA EJ25 more than doubles the power over a stock 1.7, yet you're still well within the envelope of the stock transaxle.
| QUOTE (flyloki @ Nov 1 2005, 08:55 AM) |
| If if ever get good enough garage space and money I would pull the 1.8t and FWD transaxle from a passat or Audi A4. |
Andys
| QUOTE (funcrew @ Oct 31 2005, 11:52 PM) |
| If this has been beat to death already on the forum, please post a link to the thread(s). I would like to convert a 914 to SBC power, but Renegade and others claim that I will end up spending $10K for a modified 930 trans to handle the torque. |
Dude,
First welcome. =-)
Secondly, go find someone with a 300HP SBC in a 914 and go for a little spin.
Then if that's not enough umpfhhhh for you, plan on spending about 10G's on upgrades.
What kind of SBC U puttin' in yours???
Roger
I agree with Roger.
Take a spin in one, then ask yourself if you need more than 300hp.
Besides you dont want to jump into a 500hp 914 for your first go fast car....
That requires either a timid driver (let me emphasis timid. 1/4 throttle is more than I ever need on the street, Im at about 300 crank hp) or a very, VERY skilled driver.
You cant use over 300hp on the street much anyways, let alone a small track....
Tell us about your car, your budjet, and your plans. and go for a ride in someone who has a simular car.
Andrew
Take a spin in one, then ask yourself if you need more than 300hp.
Besides you dont want to jump into a 500hp 914 for your first go fast car....
That requires either a timid driver (let me emphasis timid. 1/4 throttle is more than I ever need on the street, Im at about 300 crank hp) or a very, VERY skilled driver.
You cant use over 300hp on the street much anyways, let alone a small track....
Tell us about your car, your budjet, and your plans. and go for a ride in someone who has a simular car.
Andrew
Brad Roberts and I talked at length one time about putting an Audi automatic (or manual if you are so inclined) in a 914 with a V8. IIRC the conclusion was that it would handle the power and fit without having to re-invent the world. Brad knows lots about putting v8s in 914s.
At least that's what I think we decided on, beer was involved.
At least that's what I think we decided on, beer was involved.
Thanks for your feedback! Nice forum you have here.
OK, I'm convinced the transverse eng/trans is beyond my Frankenstein skills.
300HP in ~2300lb is way plenty enough, no problem there. I had read several first-hand opinions that the 901 trans couldn't handle that power level, even if you drove like a grandma. However, if members here are running numerous SBC/901 setups, that's pretty good evidence it can work.
Any dissenting opinions about the 901 from members here?
To answer several questions:
Current 914: None - My first autocross in my Toyota Echo (108HP/1950LB, almost exactly equal to 914/6 in that regard) is set for this Sunday, 11/6/05. FYI, in the Las Vegas SCCA region, a guy in a 90HP 914 kicks all the new water-cooled Porsches and most of the 911's and 928's (and all of the non-Porsches, naturally) into the weeds.
Other mods: Don't want any body mods at all - why mess with perfection? Would like to upgrade brakes, if feasible. Spring rates for whatever engine is used. Big sway bars. Nuclear attack shocks. Plenty of other needed stuff I haven't thought of yet.
Possible engine: Cheap SBC crate engines w/ aluminum heads now make in the mid-300 HP range, but I have not come up with a lower-powered (preferably lighter) option, other than a late-model Japanese V6. I was already aware of the Kennedy adapters, but that's obviously just the beginning of the work. Sticking with the SBC would bring the benefit of a large installed population to provide guidance and lessons learned.
In the end, out of sheer laziness, I will probably buy someone else's completed swap project and call it good. To make that work, I need to be able to assess the quality of the design and workmanship of the swap. Still worried about 901 trans durability, though...
OK, I'm convinced the transverse eng/trans is beyond my Frankenstein skills.
300HP in ~2300lb is way plenty enough, no problem there. I had read several first-hand opinions that the 901 trans couldn't handle that power level, even if you drove like a grandma. However, if members here are running numerous SBC/901 setups, that's pretty good evidence it can work.
Any dissenting opinions about the 901 from members here?
To answer several questions:
Current 914: None - My first autocross in my Toyota Echo (108HP/1950LB, almost exactly equal to 914/6 in that regard) is set for this Sunday, 11/6/05. FYI, in the Las Vegas SCCA region, a guy in a 90HP 914 kicks all the new water-cooled Porsches and most of the 911's and 928's (and all of the non-Porsches, naturally) into the weeds.
Other mods: Don't want any body mods at all - why mess with perfection? Would like to upgrade brakes, if feasible. Spring rates for whatever engine is used. Big sway bars. Nuclear attack shocks. Plenty of other needed stuff I haven't thought of yet.
Possible engine: Cheap SBC crate engines w/ aluminum heads now make in the mid-300 HP range, but I have not come up with a lower-powered (preferably lighter) option, other than a late-model Japanese V6. I was already aware of the Kennedy adapters, but that's obviously just the beginning of the work. Sticking with the SBC would bring the benefit of a large installed population to provide guidance and lessons learned.
In the end, out of sheer laziness, I will probably buy someone else's completed swap project and call it good. To make that work, I need to be able to assess the quality of the design and workmanship of the swap. Still worried about 901 trans durability, though...
| QUOTE (funcrew @ Nov 1 2005, 07:32 PM) |
| Possible engine: Cheap SBC crate engines w/ aluminum heads now make in the mid-300 HP range |
i don't think a SBC is a good choice if you want to go autocross-ing ...
just my humble opinion. too much weight too high, wrong power/torque curve, akward gearing with the 901.
most of the AX killers around here are lightweight /4 or stiffend up /6 ...
AndyPS: also, PCA would only let you run in the FUN class with an non-porsche engine, which is not really *fun* if you want some competition ...
I disagree.
I have run a V8 914 in AX.
it was fast. Much faster than my other Porsches at AX.
The last time I ran the V8 914 I finished 7th overall out of 60 cars, and 10 of them were driven by PCA instructors (and I suck at AX driving). i was less that 1.2 seconds off TTOD.
That was with completely stock 30 year old suspension except for shocks and rear springs and 205 tires. No fancy shiny parts.
I was running rock hard 10+ year old michelins on the front and victoracers on the rear. Perfect balance. neutral on braking, throttle oversteer that was completely controllable.
maybe it was the tire combination, maybe it was the perfect car to match my way too agressive driving style, whatever. it was very fast around the cones.
With similar suspension setup a I would easily beat a 914/4 (no matter how built up the engine was) in that car unless was I was up against some super-duper driver who beat me on talent alone.
Yes, you will be in x class or somerthing and some places might not let you run at all.
All that means is you might not get a ribbon or whatever. It won't keep you from comparing your times to the times of others, even the TTOD car.
I will say that I didn't care for the car and couldn't wait to sell it because I didn't like the personality of it, but to say it didn't handle very well would be incorrect.
I have run a V8 914 in AX.
it was fast. Much faster than my other Porsches at AX.
The last time I ran the V8 914 I finished 7th overall out of 60 cars, and 10 of them were driven by PCA instructors (and I suck at AX driving). i was less that 1.2 seconds off TTOD.
That was with completely stock 30 year old suspension except for shocks and rear springs and 205 tires. No fancy shiny parts.
I was running rock hard 10+ year old michelins on the front and victoracers on the rear. Perfect balance. neutral on braking, throttle oversteer that was completely controllable.
maybe it was the tire combination, maybe it was the perfect car to match my way too agressive driving style, whatever. it was very fast around the cones.
With similar suspension setup a I would easily beat a 914/4 (no matter how built up the engine was) in that car unless was I was up against some super-duper driver who beat me on talent alone.
Yes, you will be in x class or somerthing and some places might not let you run at all.
All that means is you might not get a ribbon or whatever. It won't keep you from comparing your times to the times of others, even the TTOD car.
I will say that I didn't care for the car and couldn't wait to sell it because I didn't like the personality of it, but to say it didn't handle very well would be incorrect.
| QUOTE (Sammy @ Nov 1 2005, 08:35 PM) |
| I disagree |
that's why i said IMHO ...
Andy
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.