I'm stuck writing a research paper for school. Fortunatly I had the choice of my own topic, so what did I choose? The 914 of course.

So here's the bad part-- I can't seem to find some vital information about them. Hopefully someone here can hook me up with some info (paticurally with a reference I can list as a sourse)

How many 914's are there currently estimated in the US?

There is only one and I have it! I bet if you use the search area on this forum you will find all sorts of info. Some even useful!

Top of the page 914info should help. Good luck and stay in school

This was discussed before.....some feel that a figure of 50% of the nearly 90,000 that were shipped to North America survive in one shape or another. As to actuall cars that run or will run again someday I would venture to guess the number is a lot smaller.

There are 4,500 members registered here......some own 1, some own several.

On Ebay there on average of 20 cars per week, so 20 X 52 = 1040 car trade hands and of those how many are members here?

I'd guess that there are 20,000 cars in drivable or could be drivable shape left.

QUOTE (boboli914@att.net @ Nov 3 2005, 05:18 PM)

There is only one and I have it! I bet if you use the search area on this forum you will find all sorts of info. Some even useful!

Then what is that in my garage? Yeah, I tried searching both this forum as well as google, but I can't get a specific estimate as to how many are currently out there.

spare time toys: Thanks, I checked that earlier and it verified the number I already had on the origional production numbers, but that doesn't tell me how many of those are still around.

This very topic has come up, in reply to exactly the same question.

There are complete production numbers available under 914 Info (top of the page), but there are no reliable figures on how many are actually in use. Part of the problem is definition. Do parts cars count? Do cars that have been on jackstands for the past 10 years count?

QUOTE (GWN7 @ Nov 3 2005, 05:37 PM)

This was discussed before.....some feel that a figure of 50% of the nearly 90,000 that were shipped to North America survive in one shape or another. As to actuall cars that run or will run again someday I would venture to guess the number is a lot smaller.

Thanks, That'll be the number I'll use for now, until someone can disprove it.

Not as many as there should be.

Take the number of jackstands and divide by 4.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Nov 3 2005, 05:40 PM)

This very topic has come up, in reply to exactly the same question. There are complete production numbers available under 914 Info (top of the page), but there are no reliable figures on how many are actually in use. Part of the problem is definition. Do parts cars count? Do cars that have been on jackstands for the past 10 years count?

Well here's specifically my criteria:

My report is on what would be a more productive race series to sponsor, an all 914 series or an all Boxster series.

My conciderations are:

Availability of the car models
Cost of the cars for the racers
Cost of vehicle maintaince to the racers
Number of venues each car can perform in (AutoX, SCCA, NASA)
Number of potential racers for each car
Effect the cars will have on the series spectators

So the number I need would reflect the number of track worthy cars there are.

QUOTE (mrdicb @ Nov 3 2005, 05:41 PM)

QUOTE (GWN7 @ Nov 3 2005, 05:37 PM) This was discussed before.....some feel that a figure of 50% of the nearly 90,000 that were shipped to North America survive in one shape or another. As to actuall cars that run or will run again someday I would venture to guess the number is a lot smaller. Thanks, That'll be the number I'll use for now, until someone can disprove it.

That figure includes parts yards such as AA's. Greg posted some pictures of about 50-75 cars that they have that will probably rust away before they see the road again and I'm sure that others can point out places that have almost that many cars. Rich Bontempi has probably that many cars parted out (not sure so don't quote me) from the pictures I have seen of his yard. Then there is Easy.....(no idea how many they have) Parts Haven? And there was a place that closed their doors a couple yrs ago who's name escapes me that had a ton of cars....

well, as long as the west coast people keep cutting up perfectly solid cars....just to cut them up...then there wont be many left soon

I'd probably vote Boxster. I don't know the Boxster production figures off the top of my head, but I'd venture they've made more of them by now than 914s, and far fewer of them have been crashed into oblivion, and none of them have rusted into nothing.

Used Boxsters are under $15K now, and basically would require gutting, a cage, a hardtop, and tires to be an interesting racing car. The Boxster would appeal to a larger number of younger race fans. A 914 will be an unknown to many US racing fans, would attract no marketing help from Porsche, and in virtually any 914 you'd be looking at paint, some rust work, and a suspension rebuild, as well as gutting, a cage, and tires. The 914 would still be cheaper, but not by enough to matter, IMHO. You could also get more money for your prepped Boxster than your prepped 914 when it comes time to sell it.

QUOTE (mrdicb @ Nov 3 2005, 05:49 PM)

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Nov 3 2005, 05:40 PM) This very topic has come up, in reply to exactly the same question. There are complete production numbers available under 914 Info (top of the page), but there are no reliable figures on how many are actually in use.   Part of the problem is definition.  Do parts cars count?  Do cars that have been on jackstands for the past 10 years count? Well here's specifically my criteria: My report is on what would be a more productive race series to sponsor, an all 914 series or an all Boxster series. My conciderations are: Availability of the car models Cost of the cars for the racers Cost of vehicle maintaince to the racers Number of venues each car can perform in (AutoX, SCCA, NASA) Number of potential racers for each car Effect the cars will have on the series spectators So the number I need would reflect the number of track worthy cars there are.

Well with 914's they are out of production and the field of available shells is lessened every year due to their age. But the available ones are still cheap enough that you can build a very competive car without a huge investment (ok a small huge investment)

With Boxters they are still in production and the first few years models are coming down in price to the point where the average racer can afford to buy one and modify it to where they want. (my cousin just bought one, to race)

There used to be a guy who had posted in his tag line "The Boxsters are coming"

I can't imagine there are anywhere near 15,000 cars left in any condition. Sure there is lots of them still around in Calif but elsewhere there is only a handful.

In the last 20 yrs I have probably taken apart and crushed 30 cars. I got rid of lots of stuff I wish I had now but there never seem to be enough room to store what you think you need. A large wearhouse would haveen sooo nice!

Perhaps it is different on that lefty coast (but not that I've seen when I've been there), but I've seen VERY VERY few on the road (or AX track even) around here. Only when I've gone to national level PCA events have I seen genuine road worthy examples driving real distances. So I think, using "road worthy"as a criteria at least, that there aren't that many left- only a few thousand, even counting streetable AX cars. I think it is a very interesting topic though. Even with 4000 members, how many are driving their 914s?

QUOTE (grasshopper @ Nov 3 2005, 09:01 PM)

well, as long as the west coast people keep cutting up perfectly solid cars....just to cut them up...then there wont be many left soon

yeah really


I agree with about doing the boxster. as brad said "the boxsters are comming" they seem to be the way of the future

QUOTE (914Sixer @ Nov 3 2005, 06:33 PM)

In the last 20 yrs I have probably taken apart and crushed 30 cars.

not trying to bash you or anything, but were any of these full out rust buckets, or could they have been restored.... it just makes me mad that people just make a decision that because it needs new floors, or a new jacking post, that it needs to be cut up.....

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Nov 3 2005, 06:02 PM)

I'd probably vote Boxster. I don't know the Boxster production figures off the top of my head, but I'd venture they've made more of them by now than 914s, and far fewer of them have been crashed into oblivion, and none of them have rusted into nothing. Used Boxsters are under $15K now, and basically would require gutting, a cage, a hardtop, and tires to be an interesting racing car. The Boxster would appeal to a larger number of younger race fans. A 914 will be an unknown to many US racing fans, would attract no marketing help from Porsche, and in virtually any 914 you'd be looking at paint, some rust work, and a suspension rebuild, as well as gutting, a cage, and tires. The 914 would still be cheaper, but not by enough to matter, IMHO. You could also get more money for your prepped Boxster than your prepped 914 when it comes time to sell it.

Unfortuantly, I think the final winner is going to be the Boxster aswell. I have concidered everything you have mentioned-- and have come to the same conclusions.

I think the biggest factor is going to be the "sexiness" of the series. I think boxsters will draw a bigger croud than 914s. Now I just need to prove that.

If you ask me, I'd rather race a 914 over a Boxster anyday. Infact, I AutoX my dad's 914 every week over my mom's boxster.

QUOTE (SGB @ Nov 3 2005, 06:40 PM)

Perhaps it is different on that lefty coast (but not that I've seen when I've been there), but I've seen VERY VERY few on the road (or AX track even) around here. Only when I've gone to national level PCA events have I seen genuine road worthy examples driving real distances. So I think, using "road worthy"as a criteria at least, that there aren't that many left- only a few thousand, even counting streetable AX cars. I think it is a very interesting topic though. Even with 4000 members, how many are driving their 914s?

There are only 331 members who have signed up for the members map....How many of the 4,500 who have signed up did so just to list their cars and have never posted again?

QUOTE (grasshopper @ Nov 3 2005, 07:44 PM)

it just makes me mad that people just make a decision that because it needs new floors, or a new jacking post, that it needs to be cut up.....

How many 914s can you store at your house Zack? There are probably about a dozen that will be cut up here in CA in the next 6 months. We'll have them all delivered to your house. I hate this debate.

I have an official Porsche document that states there were 'approximately' 83,000 914s imported into America. I have another document that says that fewer than 200 went to Japan. That means the other 35,000 went to Europe. There are not many left there now either.

I can also tell you that there were only 1000 914 Limited Edition cars originally built and after 20 years of keeping records of these LE cars, we can only locate the owners of about 100 of these cars. Also consider that the 914 LE cars have always been considered somewhat rare and special and therefore maybe some owners have taken better care of them than the standard 914.

If all that has any merit,..then there may be closer to only 8,000-10,000 total 914s left and a goodly portion of those are non-drivable needing much restoration to be viable again.

So what do you think...does 5,000 drivable 914s left today sound reasonable?

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Nov 3 2005, 06:02 PM)

I'd probably vote Boxster. I don't know the Boxster production figures off the top of my head, but I'd venture they've made more of them by now than 914s, and far fewer of them have been crashed into oblivion, and none of them have rusted into nothing. Used Boxsters are under $15K now, and basically would require gutting, a cage, a hardtop, and tires to be an interesting racing car. The Boxster would appeal to a larger number of younger race fans. A 914 will be an unknown to many US racing fans, would attract no marketing help from Porsche, and in virtually any 914 you'd be looking at paint, some rust work, and a suspension rebuild, as well as gutting, a cage, and tires. The 914 would still be cheaper, but not by enough to matter, IMHO. You could also get more money for your prepped Boxster than your prepped 914 when it comes time to sell it.

There was an article on a Boxter series and what it would likely be like in Excellence last month I think. It talked about what a great platform it could be especially with the price dropping and the availability of replacement engines and speed parts from Europe.

QUOTE (grasshopper @ Nov 3 2005, 06:01 PM)

well, as long as the west coast people keep cutting up perfectly solid cars....just to cut them up...then there wont be many left soon

Then come out and buy and fix them, put 4-5 grand into a car that you can sell for 3500 when you're done....that'll work....

QUOTE (jimtab @ Nov 3 2005, 09:53 PM)

QUOTE (grasshopper @ Nov 3 2005, 06:01 PM) well, as long as the west coast people keep cutting up perfectly solid cars....just to cut them up...then there wont be many left soon Then come out and buy and fix them, put 4-5 grand into a car that you can sell for 3500 when you're done....that'll work....

sadly, thats the way it works....since these cars dont get much attention bc it has a VW engine the resale value after the amount of work done is not even close.

i paid $2000 for mine, and put in over $5000 of work...with maybe $1000 left to go.


b

QUOTE (McMark @ Nov 3 2005, 08:20 PM)

How many 914s can you store at your house Zack?  There are probably about a dozen that will be cut up here in CA in the next 6 months.  We'll have them all delivered to your house.  :rolleyes:  I hate this debate.

I know we pay a lot for our cars and get little in return for resale, but that has little say about parting a car out. FI or carbs is a debate, Type IV or conversion is a debate, I don't think the obliteration of these cars or not is a debate.

I know that Rich at HPH has cut up about 400+ of them. The parts are still at his place.

-Britain

honestly, to be honest.....it doesn't really matter if cars are being cut up. From my point of view, I'd rather have parts itemized, and stored then having cars rot to hell in barns never noticed.if you cut 2 cars to save 1, thats a deal IMHO. I have a parts car, does anybody want it?

Back on topic: "How many are out there today?"

I think this forum has the resources to properly "guess-timate" how many driveable 914s and project 914s are out there. We know there are large concentrations in the cities of the U.S. West Coast, and we have long-time members in those cities, as well as other cities in North America and around the world. We can gather guess-timates of how many 914s are in each metro area, and do the same with our members in the outlying areas. This would give us a "best-guess" number.

For the Seattle-Tacoma metro area, I nominate Detective Bleyseng.
_

Or we could wait 20 years and it would be a lot easier.

QUOTE (reverie @ Nov 4 2005, 12:50 AM)

Or we could wait 20 years and it would be a lot easier.

Let me see if I can get my deadline pushed back a bit. (twenty years sounds reasonable to me).

Great info though. I wonder if I can credit this thread as a reliable sourse.

Another way to determine how many 914's there are is to send a letter to every states DMV and ask them to search their data bases for 914's current registrations and past ones that have been dropped from their data bases. I know that CA has a online search feature. Or get one member in each state to go to the DMV and ask. This would only give you a base line to start with as only two of mine have been reg with the DMV here. The current registered ones would give you a baseline and the non registerd ones might have been sold to someone in another state, but it would be interesting to see what the results are.

i don't have any current numbers, but back in 1988 (almost 20 years!) there were only 3771 914s registered in germany (only 200 of those were original /6).

by now, that number has probably dropped under the 1000 mark ...
Andy

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Nov 3 2005, 06:41 PM)

QUOTE (grasshopper @ Nov 3 2005, 09:01 PM) well, as long as the west coast people keep cutting up perfectly solid cars....just to cut them up...then there wont be many left soon yeah really I agree with about doing the boxster. as brad said "the boxsters are comming" they seem to be the way of the future

Yes........they are.

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Nov 4 2005, 11:29 AM)

by now, that number has probably dropped under the 1000 mark ...

ok, i did some research and the German KBA (Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt) actually has a contact for car-statistics.

so i sent them an email asking about current numbers.
of course that will only be the cars left in germany, but that in itself should be interesting info ....

Andy

The number of people who WANT a 914 bad enough to actually put the money down for one, is smaller than the number of cars left in at least a restorable state. If this were not so, the prices would be climbing quite steadily. It's very likely that in just a few years the supply of shells will actually fall below the demand level, and prices will climb enough that it will be economic to restore a rust bucket. We haven't hit that point yet. We may never hit that point. If and when we do, cutting up of shells will cease, and the supply of 914s will stop shrinking.

Rarity is NOT enough to guarantee value. As noted, there were over 80,000 914s sold in the US, yet they're nearly disposible. I can think of several cars sold it numbers of under 1,500 in the US that are just as disposible. Most of them are cars most people haven't even heard of, yet you can pick one up for $500 or less in drivable condition (certain Alfas and Lancias fit this criteria very well). Desirability is a key factor. For example, there were many more 356s made than 912s, yet 356s cost 5-10 times as much as 912s. An SWB 911 is quite a rare beast, yet generally fetches a lower price than an SC, even though there were 5-10 times as many SCs made as SWB 911s.

There were 5.5 MILLION "old" Minis made, but a nice condition Mini will fetch the same or more money than a nice 914. Despite the fact that there were so many Minis produced, there's a company in the UK making NEW shells using the old tooling, and getting good money for them. Yet, no one is doing the same for the 914, or even the 911. The same outfit is also making MGB shells, yet there were 500,000 MGBs made, so one presumes there are a lot more restorable cars out there. Still, it's economic to make new shells, because there are a lot more people willing to buy a new MGB shell than a new 914 shell.

One cannot blame a business owner for trying to run a business economically.

In the members vins area we have 2244 listed and that data is out of date.....

I just faxed the following letter to the Manitoba DMV (I called and they weren't interested until I mentioned it was for a university project):

To:

Jamie Thould
Motor Vehicle Registrations

FX # 204.953.XXXX

Subject: Current and Former Porsche model 914 registrations


Sir,

I belong to a Porsche 914 club and one of our members based in Ohio is writing a paper for collage and part of it entails on how many of these cars survive. If possible could you search the Manitoba data for current numbers of the Porsche 914 that are registered (or have been registered in the past couple years).

We are not looking for any information on who owns these cars or where they are located. Just the numbers of cars that are still around and the serial numbers of these car in your data base. The serial numbers would help to determine if the non current cars are currently registered in another local by them being sold.

The years and models we are interested in are the Porsche 914 manufactured from 1969 to 1976. Of these cars there were three models, a six cylinder and a four cylinder . The following shows the factory chassis numbers:

914 CHASSIS NUMBERS Year Model Chassis numbers
1970 914/4 4702900001 – 4702913312
1970 914/6 9140430001 – 9140432668
1971 914/4 4712900001 – 4712916231
1971 914/6 9141430001 – 9141430443
1972 914/4 4722900001 – 4722921580
1972 914/6 9142430001 – 9142430240
1972 916 9142330011 – 9142330020
1973 914/4 4732900001 – 4732927660
1974 914/4 4742900001 – 4742921370
1975 914/4 4752900001 – 4752911368
1976 914/4 4762900001 – 4762904075


Your help in this matter would be appreciated .


Yours truly;

Bruce Napier
22-355 Henderson Hwy.
Winnipeg, MB
R2L 1M9
204 669 1036


Will report what he has to say......

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Nov 4 2005, 12:18 PM)

there's a company in the UK making NEW shells using the old tooling, and getting good money for them.

That would be SWEET if someone started making new 914 shells..
Though that thought is only in dream land.

Wow,
You are going to have a really hard case to make if you are going to argue in favour of the 914. I think that from all empirical angles of analyzing it, the Boxster is going to win. You might reference the recent editorial in Excellence about an all Boxster race series. I think it is less than a year from actually happening...

there have been a couple of threads with "expired" VIN numbers posted...I know I've 3 that nobody wanted...one had a bad suspension console, one needed rear a qtr panel and the other had been in a slight accident.....all repairable by someone other than me

I couldn't give the cars away, so to the chopping block they went...

QUOTE (mrdicb @ Nov 3 2005, 06:49 PM)

My report is on what would be a more productive race series to sponsor, an all 914 series or an all Boxster series.

Of course the real answer to this has nothing to do with the cars - if you are going to sponsor a race series the considerations would be, 'which series will bring my name to potential customers and give me the best return'

So depending on your product, you have to look at the likely demographics

Also I tend to agree with Bowlsby - probably around 4000-5000 left at most.

R

Boy, this is an interesting post. Anyone thinking about manufacturing parts for 914's should find this interesting.

I agree with Bowlsby the figure is 4000 to 5000 914's left in some stage of restorable condition. I would say 10% (or 400 to 500) are the best running ones. Probably the 6's and special LE's, etc. are most abundant in this group. I would also say 1% of the total (50-914's) qualify as the best. I believe we see this from our past outings. In my opinion these cars are drying up, just ask the guy trying to find a good project car.

Just my 2-cents worth preaching to the experts. I've been telling everyone, buy up as many parts (now) for your future project because good parts are getting hard to find & expensive. Heavy iron stuff will always be around, look for the small stuff that's easy to store. It's the little stuff, accessories, tool kits, NOS stuff, etc that cost the most.

Tom

QUOTE (Mueller @ Nov 4 2005, 12:59 PM)

I couldn't give the cars away, so to the chopping block they went...

We've cut up 3 cars around here in the last year. All had structural rust somewhere and the parts went to people that needed them. The parts that no one wanted went to the scrapyard.

At a certain point, it becomes more advantageous to cut the car up and free up the space than it is to stockpile rusty shells.

Unfortunately...that's the way it goes.

4000-5000? We have almost that many members here, so I say double it to under 10K 914's left in a restorable condition.

Maybee u could contakt every DMV countrywide and ask if they could check there databases for you?

Geoff,

Yes, maybe if you count parts cars the total could be 8,000???

Define restorable condition??? Like Bill Clinton said, I didn't have sex with that women, it was only a BJ.

Restorable Condition. Running or on Jack stands waiting for restoration with minimum work.

Parts Car. Rusted out with major sag & only a few parts salvageable.

Tom

QUOTE (BMartin914 @ Nov 4 2005, 01:49 PM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Nov 4 2005, 12:59 PM) I couldn't give the cars away, so to the chopping block they went... We've cut up 3 cars around here in the last year. All had structural rust somewhere and the parts went to people that needed them. The parts that no one wanted went to the scrapyard. At a certain point, it becomes more advantageous to cut the car up and free up the space than it is to stockpile rusty shells. Unfortunately...that's the way it goes.

Yeah,
That about the way it is here, too. We are running out of storage for cars, and some saveable cars are being axed. Thankfully, sometimes some of them get saved, at least in part. The front cut on the F production car that David Finch built was one of them. But we also recently sold a shell to a guy who just wanted a vin. I know that one never made if back off his trailer before it went to the junkyard...

Yeah I know people are still going to part cars... inevitable and that's fine. But I just think the general trend should be leaning towards saving the cars.

Hey McMark. If you are really talking about unrusted and straight 914's I'll take you up on your offer. If you are willing to ship them I will take as many as you are willing send. It's the shipping of a non running car that's a b***h.

My address is. Well I guess posting your address on a public forum isn't so smart. You will have a PM as soon as I figure out how to use it.

Kelly