i know this was in the 50s ,and propelled a car at like 110mph or something from what i think i've read.
I think this was the coveted 4 cammer engine?
used in the carrera2? (i thought i heard it was from this car)
can someone provide detailed stats about this engine?
b
Full Version: can someone tell me about this engine
It's a Picture of one of Jakes engines with way to much nitro..
Twystd1
Twystd1
gear driven cams 
pretty gnarly.....
pretty gnarly.....
547 4 cam Carrera Better known as the Fuhrmann 4 cam... Used in the 550 Spyder and the Speedster Carrera, CarreraII as well in a later form. Overhead cam design driven from a lay shaft via bevel gears. The bevel gears drive shafts that actuate the exhaust cams first and then power is transmitted through those cams vai another set of bevel gears to the intake cams.
The early versions were 1500cc and had roller bearing cranks, and were very difficult to assemble. These were used through 1958 and can easily be noted due to their dual distributors at the end of each intake rocker cover (one on each side) to fire the twin plug ignition. The later engines (like the one pictured) had both dizzies triggered from a shaft off the crank.
These engines started in 1959 and were known as "Plain bearing" engines these were more modern internally with non roller cranks and plain bearings and most were 1600cc. Later versions were all the way through the RSK series and some displaced up to 2 liters.
The stock 15-1600cc engines made about 135 BHP and revved easily to 8,000 RPM even in the mid to late 1950s, on the street the engine is a dog as I have driven a couple and they don't START making power till past 5500 RPM. Some race prepped version made up to 165HP from 1600ccs, these were generally known as "Abarth Tuned"... The design of the engine was about 40 years ahead of its time and was a modern marvel in the 50s! Hell they even have a dry sump oil system!
Now for the good part... To buy one of these engines rebuilt you are talking 85-110 THOUSAND BUCKS! Pistons are 1oK per set, Rods 8K per set, heads 10K EACH (used needing rebuilding!) I have seen a BOX of parts sell for 65K on German Ebay before and their wasn't even a list of what you got for that price o the auction!
Here are some pics of one that I worked with most recently. These engines are painstaking, finicky and down right intimidating! Most guys that know anything about them are dead, or retired. Of all the things I have worked with including Turbine engines nothing was more difficult than the 547. I do enjoy the work because I feel privelaged that anyone would trust me with a car that sold for over 400K bucks and let me work on their 100+K engine from that car! The car in the pics is a 1959 Carrera GT Speedster raced at Leman in 1960 and then wrecked (rolled) there in 1961. The car was completely restored after all its parts were sourced with matching numbers from all over the world after being parted out in the mid 60s- The resto took 12 years and cost over 300K to complete. The engine was Abarth tuned and made 163HP at 8,000 RPM. The brake drums are aluminum and have vented backing plates. The doors, hood, decklid are aluminum and that was only done on 12 cars (supposedly)..
Here is the 59 carrera GT Speedster
In this pic you can get an idea of the drive arrangeent for the cams via shafts and bevel gears.
Another view
And here Brent and I pose with the beast just before reinstalling it
Don't EVER try to adjust the valves on one (takes all day+) and don't ever try to synch set the ignition timing because both dizzies have to get the same dwell, point gap and initial and full advance simultaneously or the engine runs like shit....
Bill Doyle, one of the only 4 cammer wrenchs still around invited me to come stay at his place for a month or so and take a deep crash course on these babies because he wants to retire soon... He only builds 3-4 per year and believe it or not the cars are still raced (and engines blown) on a pretty regular basis...... These guys are definately not 914 guys!!!! LOL anything that happens to that engine cost 20K to repair...
The early versions were 1500cc and had roller bearing cranks, and were very difficult to assemble. These were used through 1958 and can easily be noted due to their dual distributors at the end of each intake rocker cover (one on each side) to fire the twin plug ignition. The later engines (like the one pictured) had both dizzies triggered from a shaft off the crank.
These engines started in 1959 and were known as "Plain bearing" engines these were more modern internally with non roller cranks and plain bearings and most were 1600cc. Later versions were all the way through the RSK series and some displaced up to 2 liters.
The stock 15-1600cc engines made about 135 BHP and revved easily to 8,000 RPM even in the mid to late 1950s, on the street the engine is a dog as I have driven a couple and they don't START making power till past 5500 RPM. Some race prepped version made up to 165HP from 1600ccs, these were generally known as "Abarth Tuned"... The design of the engine was about 40 years ahead of its time and was a modern marvel in the 50s! Hell they even have a dry sump oil system!
Now for the good part... To buy one of these engines rebuilt you are talking 85-110 THOUSAND BUCKS! Pistons are 1oK per set, Rods 8K per set, heads 10K EACH (used needing rebuilding!) I have seen a BOX of parts sell for 65K on German Ebay before and their wasn't even a list of what you got for that price o the auction!
Here are some pics of one that I worked with most recently. These engines are painstaking, finicky and down right intimidating! Most guys that know anything about them are dead, or retired. Of all the things I have worked with including Turbine engines nothing was more difficult than the 547. I do enjoy the work because I feel privelaged that anyone would trust me with a car that sold for over 400K bucks and let me work on their 100+K engine from that car! The car in the pics is a 1959 Carrera GT Speedster raced at Leman in 1960 and then wrecked (rolled) there in 1961. The car was completely restored after all its parts were sourced with matching numbers from all over the world after being parted out in the mid 60s- The resto took 12 years and cost over 300K to complete. The engine was Abarth tuned and made 163HP at 8,000 RPM. The brake drums are aluminum and have vented backing plates. The doors, hood, decklid are aluminum and that was only done on 12 cars (supposedly)..
Here is the 59 carrera GT Speedster
In this pic you can get an idea of the drive arrangeent for the cams via shafts and bevel gears.
Another view
And here Brent and I pose with the beast just before reinstalling it
Don't EVER try to adjust the valves on one (takes all day+) and don't ever try to synch set the ignition timing because both dizzies have to get the same dwell, point gap and initial and full advance simultaneously or the engine runs like shit....
Bill Doyle, one of the only 4 cammer wrenchs still around invited me to come stay at his place for a month or so and take a deep crash course on these babies because he wants to retire soon... He only builds 3-4 per year and believe it or not the cars are still raced (and engines blown) on a pretty regular basis...... These guys are definately not 914 guys!!!! LOL anything that happens to that engine cost 20K to repair...
Heres one for ya Jake and Brit, Seattle shop owner has had this for years.
Jake, I can confidentally say that I will most likely never see that engine or car in person
I am getting better working on cars though, and that's a good thing.
b
I am getting better working on cars though, and that's a good thing.
b
Yep and he got that engine from Joe Locicero- The designer of my DTM cooling system! He sold it to him in the 60s! Joe was a 4 cam wrench in Germany in the 50s while in the US Army.... He got that engine from a wrecked Carrera Speedster and drag raced it for a while (in a bug) and then sold it!
God bless Joe L... I miss that man - GREATLY - he was a fantastic person. I was lucky enough to get one of his last DTM shrouds and it really pained me to sell it - but it went to another GOOD T4 conversion person.
And Jake---
Shaaaa - fucking - wing on that motor and speedster! Wow!!!
Tom
And Jake---
Shaaaa - fucking - wing on that motor and speedster! Wow!!!
Tom
There is a shop in town here with a couple brand new rebuilds sitting in crates. It amazing how much money those engines bring
| QUOTE (bd1308 @ Nov 16 2005, 10:36 PM) |
| i know this was in the 50s ,and propelled a car at like 110mph or something from what i think i've read. I think this was the coveted 4 cammer engine? used in the carrera2? (i thought i heard it was from this car) can someone provide detailed stats about this engine? b |
I first posted that picture. I found it in a old Road & Track.
| QUOTE (bd1308 @ Nov 16 2005, 11:10 PM) |
| Jake, I can confidentally say that I will most likely never see that engine or car in person I am getting better working on cars though, and that's a good thing. b |
I wouldn't say that. These engines show up at Porsche car shows pretty regularly. A few weeks ago, there was a very minor 356/912 meet at a local Porsche dealer here that had a 550 Spyder with a 4 cam in it. It had a bigger crowd around it than the 3 (yes, 3) Carrera GTs sitting in the bays across the garage.
Thats because the 550 is appreciating in value while those radiator laden, new fangled, sorry excuse for a Porsche is getting looks from guys that *THINK* its cool because it has big brakes and some carbon fiber on it!
The going rate for a solid 550 these days is between 500-700K and they get sold/traded quite often. One of my TIV customers has one that he bought brand new and he still drives it on a somewhat daily basis, even in traffic!
The going rate for a solid 550 these days is between 500-700K and they get sold/traded quite often. One of my TIV customers has one that he bought brand new and he still drives it on a somewhat daily basis, even in traffic!
| QUOTE (bd1308 @ Nov 16 2005, 10:36 PM) |
| can someone provide detailed stats about this engine? |
[QUOTE]
It's a picture of my Porsche powered jet pack.
| QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Nov 17 2005, 08:13 AM) |
| One of my TIV customers has one that he bought brand new and he still drives it on a somewhat daily basis, even in traffic! |
That is SOOOO cool!!!
| QUOTE (vintage914racer @ Nov 17 2005, 07:05 AM) |
| There is a shop in town here with a couple brand new rebuilds sitting in crates. It amazing how much money those engines bring |
My former bosses, best friend just had his re-built this past spring at a little over $25,000. Going in his Speedster.
Conway in Boulder, deals a bit with those motors too.
the coolest thing is his old BMW motorcycle with one of those twin cam motors running it...
very cool....
brant
the coolest thing is his old BMW motorcycle with one of those twin cam motors running it...
very cool....
brant
a few years back... a blowed up one sold for 50k on ebay....
| QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Nov 17 2005, 04:51 PM) |
| a few years back... a blowed up one sold for 50k on ebay.... |
When Roland was trying to justify a $25,000.00 rebuild he started looking on e-bay and brought over 2 auctions for complete engines. Bids broke 100,000 and didn't meet the reserve!
Same seller in Germany had those and several parts piles.
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