Hi everyone,

I am replacing my points and condenser and will need to set my timing, anyone know the proper setting?

John

Better ask Jake

I'd ask Jake, but 7.5 BTDC is a safe bet.

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Nov 23 2005, 05:39 PM)

Better ask Jake

Yes, Rick, I was wondering if another owner of a similar engine of Jake's might have had the answer.

I changed the points and it is running tip-top now.

It is funny how drivabilty can diminish slowly and then reach "critical mass" suddenly.

No timing adjustment for now, but what a difference in starting.

Test drive to commence in mere moments...

John

QUOTE (Mark Henry @ Nov 23 2005, 07:01 PM)

I'd ask Jake, but 7.5 BTDC is a safe bet.

Noted Mark, thanks for your reply.

John

Most of our carb'ed engines are set at 34-35 degrees btdc

Check this:

Pelican Parts Carb Timing Article

QUOTE (hmeeder @ Nov 23 2005, 11:27 PM)

Most of our carb'ed engines are set at 34-35 degrees btdc Check this: Pelican Parts Carb Timing Article

7.5 static BTDC + 24 degrees advance = 31.5 degrees total advance.

That's about what you'd get with a mallory.

34- 35 is around what you'll get with a 009 or 050

QUOTE (Flat VW @ Nov 23 2005, 07:05 PM)

I changed the points and it is running tip-top now. It is funny how drivabilty can diminish slowly and then reach "critical mass" suddenly. No timing adjustment for now, but what a difference in starting. Test drive to commence in mere moments... John

Holy Shnikes, what a difference.

That was just the hottest ride I've had in this car since owning it.

This thing is Rippin, now!

How often do others change points?

Do you change your condenser each time?

Is there a test for the condenser other than just examining the "spark traits"?

If you were in a bind with no feeler guage what common thing would you use to gap your points?


John

I think the adjustment/change interval is around 6k miles? I always seem to futz with them a helluva lot sooner than that. I went to an electronic replacement and life is much better with 1 less thing you have to tinker with.

Points should be replaced when worn, condenser you can keep in there for a long, long time. Be sure to use a bosch unit - the junky ones at your local flaps are known to die after a little bit of time.

Hi. On 009's i've been using either Compufires or Petronix units lately. Once you set your timing, you're pretty much set for a long time, although it's always a good idea to check it periodically.

John

The answer to your last question is : in a jam I would use a matchbook, it is close enough (IN THICKNESS) to get you home to your feeler gauges.

What dizzy are you running?

Too much advance is not good for the engine.

How did you set it? Static or with a timing light?

QUOTE (Mark Henry @ Nov 24 2005, 05:17 AM)

What dizzy are you running? Too much advance is not good for the engine. How did you set it? Static or with a timing light?

I really do not know that.

I would like to though, is there a way to identify the dizzy model while it is still installed it the car?


THX Mark, no timing change just points and condenser change for now, till I can confer with Jake on Friday, from piloting last night though my butt says it is on the nut now or quite close to it.

John

P.S. I am going to put a timing light on it today in order to see where it is set now, strictly for reference and drill.


Happy Thanksgiblets to you and ALL

Just changing the points can change your timing.

A mallory will have a big red cap.

It's hard to see tha numbers on a Bosch dizzy without taking it out. If you undo the 13mm (wrench size) nut you can pull it up and out, get the number and stick it back in. Rotate the rotor till it seats right down and put the nut back on. That shouldn't change your timing.

It will have a set of 9 numbers in 3's, it sometimes has a letter on the end. Don't worry about any other numbers.

XXX XXX 009

XXX XXX 050

XXX XXX 205A

(I can't think of the first numbers off the top of my head so I've used the "X" for the ones I don't know.)

NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!

Every engine I build is different- Almost all them have different optimum settings that I determined during their Dyno sessions!!!

This is why I create spec books for them and include them with the engine, these specs are all you need to do anything maintenance wise to the engine. If you received that manual with the car, its all there.. If not I'll have to email them to you tomorrow as I am away from the shop and do not have them handy today.

DO NOT LISTEN TO ANY OF THE ABOVE RECOMMENDATIONS!!

There are no default settings for my engines and this is VERY important to set correctly. If not your MPG head temps and power will all suffer.

If it wasn't Thanksgiving I could help you in 5 minutes..

er... i mean...



Listen to the man who made your engine.

and why arent you running a pointless setup or a mallory ?

The same reason I'm not running (or had recently purchased) a six.


There is something most gratifying about running the "old school stuff" and "waxing the tails" of newest, latest, computer-driven cars in my "just a 4" (cool vanity plate ).



Running, an engine essentially designed in what, the late thirties?



I encountered a Mazada RX-8 entering the freeway last night and gave it a taste. We were both pedaling pretty hard, I having just shifted to fifth when a Mercedes newest latest two seater went by us like we were going backward, so its all relative.

I know my place in the "car universe" and I like it.

I also had a run against a brand new BMW 325 (entering the freeway also just last night), they are pokey.

At this time if I made any changes it would be for "emissions reasons", and I would make the jump to programmable electronic fuel injection.

It seems to be common knowledge around here that there is maybe as much as 10% more power to be had with the change.

John

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Nov 24 2005, 08:47 AM)

NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!! Every engine I build is different- Almost all them have different optimum settings that I determined during their Dyno sessions!!! This is why I create spec books for them and include them with the engine, these specs are all you need to do anything maintenance wise to the engine. If you received that manual with the car, its all there.. If not I'll have to email them to you tomorrow as I am away from the shop and do not have them handy today. DO NOT LISTEN TO ANY OF THE ABOVE RECOMMENDATIONS!! There are no default settings for my engines and this is VERY important to set correctly. If not your MPG head temps and power will all suffer. If it wasn't Thanksgiving I could help you in 5 minutes..

SIR, YES, SIR (standing most rigidly, cover slightly over my eyes.....)

Sir, I examined the points and found them quite pitted Sir, and took the initiative to change them, SIR.


John

P.S. Poor guy, I sent a message about this as he was walking out for the holiday yesterday.........

P.P.S. In regard to the points, have I sinned?

no freaking way...i feel EXACTLY the same way you do.

I get chills sometimes when i drive my car, knowing that i'm driving an old-world car.

I love it!

Jake's doing wonders for the aircooled world.

b

QUOTE (Mark Henry @ Nov 24 2005, 05:17 AM)

How did you set it? Static or with a timing light?

What does it mean, to set timing using a "static" method?

John

QUOTE (Flat VW @ Nov 24 2005, 12:51 PM)

The same reason I'm not running (or had recently purchased) a six. Running, an engine essentially designed in what, the late thirties?

The 6 was designed before the T-4. Get another excuse

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Nov 24 2005, 06:28 PM)

QUOTE (Flat VW @ Nov 24 2005, 12:51 PM) The same reason I'm not running (or had recently purchased) a six. Running, an engine essentially designed in what, the late thirties?   The 6 was designed before the T-4. Get another excuse

JP...did you know you have a set of beetle bearings somewhere in your /6

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Nov 24 2005, 02:28 PM)

QUOTE (Flat VW @ Nov 24 2005, 12:51 PM) The same reason I'm not running (or had recently purchased) a six. Running, an engine essentially designed in what, the late thirties?   The 6 was designed before the T-4. Get another excuse

That would just be "pointless".

I was commenting to "modern six conversions" with all the computer stuff.

Mr. Perrine's six with the MFI, VERY COOL, six little Webers very cool. All the badass hot six computer conversions, very cool too, just different.

For me, like comparing apples to corn chips, both are food, but two different things.

It loses that "vintage thing" for me with the electronics.

I use portable XM radio in the car but would never install it in the car except if it were hidden and installed very discretely, and most likely not even then, just my trip.

You say Potato, I say Potatoe......


John

P.S. The first time I get stuck in the "middle of nowhere", where I often am, with fried points I will probably feel differently.

Ain't happened yet though, (Mcguyver (sp) complex)

John

get a set of points, condensorand rotor cap and put them in your glove box.....

Its less than 20 bucks...it will get you home.

Once you have confirmed the settings with Jake...keep the book with your car.

Get an accel cable and take that in the car too...

Rich

clutch cable?

both of those cables are close to 100 bucks on thier own

b

OK..
I ran back to the shop and grabbed the folder for the engine...

Dwell angle= 48 degrees
Initial advance @ 1,000 RPM= 8 degrees
Full advance at 3,200 RPM = 29 degrees BTDC

Don't worry with the initial advance..

Rev the engine to 3500 RPM after verifying the dwell is within 2 degrees +/- of my spec and ensure that you have the 29 degrees full advance. Full advance is what matters most.

The Mallory is an excellent addition to the engine, if you are worried about being stranded keep your entire current dizzy in the trunk- it will drop install in 10 minutes-

I have used hundreds of mallory's and had one go bad. It was bad out of the box.... I have one on every car I own, except the Pinzgauer and I'm trying to adapt one to it as we speak!

If you have further tuning questions- don't ask ANYONE but me, hey don't know that engine, nor do they have it's specs- you have my cell number.

When I work my tricks the stock tuning goes out the window..

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Nov 24 2005, 05:32 PM)

OK.. I ran back to the shop and grabbed the folder for the engine... Dwell angle= 48 degrees Initial advance @ 1,000 RPM= 8 degrees Full advance at 3,200 RPM = 29 degrees BTDC Don't worry with the initial advance.. Rev the engine to 3500 RPM after verifying the dwell is within 2 degrees +/- of my spec and ensure that you have the 29 degrees full advance. Full advance is what matters most. The Mallory is an excellent addition to the engine, if you are worried about being stranded keep your entire current dizzy in the trunk- it will drop install in 10 minutes- I have used hundreds of mallory's and had one go bad. It was bad out of the box.... I have one on every car I own, except the Pinzgauer and I'm trying to adapt one to it as we speak! If you have further tuning questions- don't ask ANYONE but me, hey don't know that engine, nor do they have it's specs- you have my cell number. When I work my tricks the stock tuning goes out the window..

What a guy!

THX, Mr. Raby,


John

P.S. What me worry?

Not Hardly......

Jake-
Once you set these up on the dyno- what is your experience with this unit needing adjustment? Once a year for grins?

The engine I bought from you a couple years ago is still running great. I have only rebalanced the carbs a couple times....but now that I think about it...have never thought to verify timing.

-greg

*cough* take me for a ride in it *cough*

are you a basketball guy too, or just football.....?

b

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Nov 24 2005, 01:02 PM)

I get chills sometimes when I drive my car, I love it!

Ah, Britt, I think your chills are probably coming from shot window seals....

I would have gladly given you a ride at the FFC event.

Heck, I might even have let you driven it, although the one time Shaggy has driven it he darn near spun it with me in the passenger seat.

Too much ratio of throttle to steering input in a turn.

John

QUOTE (Flat VW @ Nov 25 2005, 09:36 AM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Nov 24 2005, 01:02 PM) I get chills sometimes when I drive my car, I love it! Ah, Britt, I think your chills are probably coming from shot window seals.... I would have gladly given you a ride at the FFC event. Heck, I might even have let you driven it, although the one time Shaggy has driven it he darn near spun it with me in the passenger seat. Too much ratio of throttle to steering input in a turn. John

i end up driving real easy if its somebody else's car....like speed limit easy.


b

The Mallory generally doesn't need to be adjusted.. Their are no wear parts..

The one in my bus has been installed for almost 4 years and the last time I put a timing light on it, it was exactly where it was on the dyno.. Same thing with the 912E, after 90K I have only swapped the dizzy cap and rotor. That dizzy has been on that engine since it was born, except for about 11K miles when I was testing the kit carlson system with its direct fire ignition..