Gotta protect the battery!

Is that a plastic tank?


The cage sort of defeats the crumple zone in the front end.

QUOTE (GWN7 @ Nov 25 2005, 05:21 PM)

Is that a plastic tank?

it sure looks like it!

Andy

looks like it ties in the front suspension mounts at the lower control arms. nascar beefy over kill.

It's creative ballast.

I recognize the color of the car. I think it was for sale in Kentucky a year or so back.



B

And the 1 lb of sheet metal was cut out of the front firewall because?

QUOTE (jonwatts @ Nov 25 2005, 06:56 PM)

And the 1 lb of sheet metal was cut out of the front firewall because?

...he needed a hole for the tubes to go through? Off the back corners, rearward.

I think that is a pretty creative way to brace the front end sheetmetal, since many rules say you can't tie it to the suspension points. But then there are stock looking strut bushings?

QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Nov 25 2005, 08:26 PM)

I recognize the color of the car. I think it was for sale in Kentucky a year or so back. B

nice

no actually I didn't see any evidence of a mobile home in the background....looks too nice to be in KY anyway.

and wait a sec, who in KY has enough money to BUILD a cage?

Let's see more pics...


KT

Gawd, I leave for a few hours and when I come back there is a thread bashing my car.

Seriously though, it is my car and it is in KY. I bought the car with the cage in it and I'm not sure exactly what the final outcome was supposed to be.

I think the original intent must have been to finish it as a partially tube framed car, prolly with a fiberglass nose and fenders.

The cage itself is pretty well done with nice welds. What they did is build a cage that ties into all the suspension points front and rear, then into the longs. The front part of the cage, below the front sheetmetal, has bars that are welded on the floor above the front suspension mount points. It is very stiff (like I can jack up any jack point to get 3 wheels off the ground).

Not 100% sure where I'm going with the car either, but I'm sure it has plenty of stiffness for lots o' horsepower, now if I only had money...

Oh and what about my plastic fuel tank, it can't be any less safe than a pinto.

Cool. I'm getting older, but the 914 memory is still pretty good.



B

QUOTE (cdmcse @ Nov 25 2005, 10:57 PM)

Oh and what about my plastic fuel tank, it can't be any less safe than a pinto.

Well you don't have to worry about it rusting......

I gather there is no car inspections there? It wouldn't pass here.

QUOTE (GWN7 @ Nov 26 2005, 02:58 AM)

I gather there is no car inspections there? It wouldn't pass here.

The car inspection in KY constists of making sure the VIN matches what is on the title. Other than that anything, and I mean anything goes.

Geez Chris, If you ever get down this way, I'll give you a real gas tank, just so I don't have to worry anymore.

T.C.

Scary thing is a lot of the off road rail buggy crowd runs those poly gas tanks!!! They are weak enough they sag down between the mounts when filled with fuel. I'd throw it away and at least go buy a spun al tank from on one of the VW places. Not worth the few $$ to have you and your car go up.

John

lets see more pictures of the whole car

Why are people worried about the plastic tank?
Seriously, almost every motorboat on the water with an outboard uses a plastic tank.

Oh, yeah...The tanks underground at *every* modern gas station...Plastic.

The fuel lines in your center tunnel, yep, also plastic.

If the tank is rated for motor vehicle use, what's the fuss?
The "no rust" feature is very tempting.

Notice the easy acces to the lines and such under the tank through the bulkhead? I think it's pretty cool to be able to keep a watchful eye on the works instead of waiting until you smell gas.

Because, let's face it, how often do you pull your steel tank out to inspect the lines?

Make your argument, don't just say "yuck" and move on.

thanks,

KT

I'm not real fond of the plastic tank either, but a stock tank won't fit due to the way the cage is constructed. I think this poly tank would be at least as durable in a traumatic impact as any stock single wall car tank, it looks pretty tough.

I could go with one of those square fuel cells, but I hate to put that weight out in front of the wheels, and loose part of the trunk.

I have a stock tank, and my plan was to cut it down (about 1.5" on each side) to clear the cage. I could tack weld it together, then send it off to be professionally welded and finished.

Here is a pic of the rest of car...

I like the car


And...I think the front cage tubing, mocked as it was, provides WAY more protection than a spare tire.

I'd track it.


KT

QUOTE (trekkor @ Nov 26 2005, 01:52 PM)

almost every motorboat on the water with an outboard uses a plastic tank. The tanks underground at *every* modern gas station...Plastic.

how many boats do have head on collisions at speeds of > 80mph ???

how many gas stations do have head on collisions at speeds of > 80mph ???

Andy


PS: hey Chris, didn't know that was your car, just found the pics on the web and thought it was a "interesting" design on the front part of the cage ...

We all know that in a high speed collision almost every tank will fail. I believe a quality plastic tank will outlast a metal one.

A fuel cell is the best choice for a track car, of course.

Don't crash is my advice.


KT

QUOTE (trekkor @ Nov 26 2005, 02:22 PM)

Don't crash is my advice.

following that logic, no one should ever need a roll-cage or even seatbelts in a race car ...
if you never crash, why add all that extra weight of a roll-cage????

i don't think that really is a good argument for a plastic fuel tank ...
Andy

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Nov 26 2005, 02:58 PM)

QUOTE (trekkor @ Nov 26 2005, 02:22 PM) Don't crash is my advice. following that logic, no one should ever need a roll-cage or even seatbelts in a race car ... if you never crash, why add all that extra weight of a roll-cage???? i don't think that really is a good argument for a plastic fuel tank ... Andy

btw - that looks like a dune buggy tank....

I dont know why there is so much fuss about a plastic fuel tank! You guys do realize that a GT3 has a plastic tank, we have a collision damaged GT3 in the shop now, and just put the plastic tank back in the car.

Also my 2003 F250 PSD carries 40 gallons of diesel in a plastic tank.

Lots and lots of cars have plastic tanks.

QUOTE (TimT @ Nov 26 2005, 03:12 PM)

Lots and lots of cars have plastic tanks.

yes, i agree. but the tank in question does not look like it was designed to be used in a GT3 or F250 or 914.

it looks like a agricultural vehicle tank. you know, like on the back of a tractor ...
Andy

QUOTE

Don't crash is my advice.

Yeah, I guess that wasn't very constructive.
It was meant with sarcasm...Sorry.

I need a sarcastic guy smiley


KT

Have any of you guys looked at the tanks in most cars since oh.... the early 90's?? Most have "plastic" tanks now!! Hell my '86 944 has a "plastic" tank You're all stuck in the 70's man. Wake up and join the 00's, the revolution has begun; and it's PLASTIC!!!!!

I'm with you...

Nice looking car...

Yes plastic is used in lots of cars these days but the manufactures test them and they are certified to pass DOT specifications. Aftermarket tanks are not certified (that's why they say "For Off Road Use Only" on them). That takes the liability out of the manufactures hands if something goes wrong.

I was guessing the size? 10 gals? D2 X .7854 X L X 7.5

In drag racing there are some classes that require a plastic tank...

Ideally you run a fuel cell, and everyone is happy, but RCI makes lots of plastic only tanks.

If anyone has a factory plastic tank for my RS clone... I'll remove it from your premises free of charge.

QUOTE (Rand @ Nov 25 2005, 07:15 PM)

QUOTE (jonwatts @ Nov 25 2005, 06:56 PM) And the 1 lb of sheet metal was cut out of the front firewall because? ...he needed a hole for the tubes to go through? Off the back corners, rearward.

[QUOTE]

To save weight!, of course, Duh!

who cares what the tank looks like or what its made out of.The car looks good and its further ahead than mine!

QUOTE (ft.lbs. @ Nov 28 2005, 03:51 PM)

who cares what the tank looks like or what its made out of.

i do ... but i'm weird.

somehow the idea of having 10+ gallons of fuel right in front of me in a plastic container that was never meant to be used in a automobile just wouldn't make me feel comfortable ...

but hey, i'm going to stick with trekkors advice and just don't crash my car!
Andy

QUOTE (john rogers @ Nov 25 2005, 09:02 PM)

I think that is a pretty creative way to brace the front end sheetmetal, since many rules say you can't tie it to the suspension points. But then there are stock looking strut bushings?

a lot of rules do not allow bracing to the suspension points....


BUTTTTT...

those same rules usually do also NOT allow tubes that pass through existing sheetmetal, which those tubes clearly do.

As a PCA car this would go straight to GT.
can't say about SCCA, but I thought they only allowed so many contact points with the chassis for their production classifications...

I like your car. Id make another V8 project with it. If it was for sale of course.

David

QUOTE (brant @ Nov 28 2005, 07:02 PM)

QUOTE (john rogers @ Nov 25 2005, 09:02 PM) I think that is a pretty creative way to brace the front end sheetmetal, since many rules say you can't tie it to the suspension points. But then there are stock looking strut bushings? a lot of rules do not allow bracing to the suspension points.... BUTTTTT... those same rules usually do also NOT allow tubes that pass through existing sheetmetal, which those tubes clearly do. As a PCA car this would go straight to GT. can't say about SCCA, but I thought they only allowed so many contact points with the chassis for their production classifications...

I never intended to do any real organized racing with this car, it is more of a toy. My thinking was it was already hacked up pretty good, so I wouldn't feel bad about doing extreme irreversible things with it. In additon to learning to weld, etc.

I would however like to get to some drivers ed events every once and while in it. My enjoyment is mainly just crusing the plentiful country roads in Ky.

I think if I was going to go racing for real, I would start out buying a car that was already built for a specific class. That way I could see if it is where I wanted to race before building or upgrading a car to be competitive and spending tons of cash. (not that it wouldn't take years of racing experience to be good enough to be competitive)

My choice for racing in an organized sport would be a targa style rally, which they don't really do in the US that I have seen. I guess a hillclimb would be similar.

we should meet some time.....

b

It doesn't matter what new cars have tanks made out of, IMHO. The reality is that cars are designed as a whole package. Cars that come with plastic tanks are designed to protect that plastic in case of an impact. I can say for sure that someone spent some time designing for crash safety. In a 914 I'll take the tank that stuttgart designed to be there or I'll put in a fuel cell. Of course no one can know for sure if plastic in a 914 would be bad without extensive testing. But the whole "new cars have 'em" argument doesn't hold a bit of water with me in terms of 914s.

cdmcse:
Looking back at your build-up thread, what is that 'thing' on the top of your motor? Is it a remote oil cooler mounted ontop of your engine tin? Never seen anything like that before.

On-topic, I think a fuel cell mounted where the battery is or where the current plastic tank is would be great...and the battery either mounted where the fuel cell isn't or in the trunk. Good luck!

Chris,

don't get me wrong..
I like your car too.

and I 100% agree that if your entering into a certain racing class you build or buy just too those rules.

brant