That's right, No more BP or FM etc.....GGR has gone to the points system.
Proposal was approved by the DEC in October and rubberstamped by the GGR Board in early November. I have it directly from the current Competition Director.
So make sure to get your car into the points classification and see what high horsepower cars you will be competing against (no lie)
It will probably work fairly well with AX with a few future tweeks. As far as Time trial goes....I think it needs more work...but what do I know.
It is what it is, and we will see how it goes.
It's all for a $5 trophy at the end of the year anyway.

QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Nov 28 2005, 05:12 PM)

It's all for a $5 trophy at the end of the year anyway.

Hey, that's more than a plastic flag on a wooden stick

yeah... i actually think the new system will work quite well for AX (i was in favor of it simply from the view of competition), but it's clearly f**ked up for TT, where they have semi-racey-914's with stock 2.0's competing against 996's and 951's... sorry... but that is totally f**king insane.

if i end up getting into TTing next year, i'll worry about it more then (prolly won't worry at all, actually. just getting my car reliably out to the track would be victory enough).

QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Nov 28 2005, 05:12 PM)

That's right, No more BP or FM etc.....GGR has gone to the points system.

No problem...


KT

British petroleum is folding?? Frequncy modulation has given way to XM?? Great Gargatuan Russian women are rating men by points now?? What's the freekin werld cummin to?

Sorry,
You non norcal folks would not get the abbreviations.
BP was a 914 class for production modifications
Fm was for 914s with bigger 4 bangers or 2L 6s
GGR is Golden Gate Region Porsche Club of America

Does that cover it?
this group lets nothing slip.

I'm in AX15, where I run against... Ummm... Nobody? Britain was in that class when he was still down here. He kept kicking my butt, though, even when his 1.7 had no sway bars!

--DD

you're right Dave. no matter what you do there will always be some classes with few if any participants. This was something they were trying to eliminate, but part of the problem is that a lot of folks have classed their cars and have never participated in AX or TT and probably never will. It skews the numbers of folks in a particular class as shown on line.
So even in AX 15 where you are with like 3 or 4 others listed only yourself actually participates.
Then there are classes with 20+ cars that do participate...regularly. Once the dust settles I think this scenario will decrease the numbers of folks competing. Especially in TT where, after a few events, the same 3-5 folks finish atop the standings the rest of the folks will be packing up early on sunday and going home. How does that scenario increase competition.
For myself at TT, I have always been my competition, regardless of who was in my class. So what rules we have for competition really are moot.
I hope I am wrong about the above but I don't think so.

Dan/Dave
From someone older than dirt and has seen this kind of stuff come and go. GGR needs to take a hard look at what they are or could be doing to themselves by these types of changes. There are so many clubs now doing time trial or drivers ed as they call it. (Cars in with in car timers) GGR is not the only came in town anymore and they need to make it easier not more difficult for "us" to participate.

To me it really does not make any difference what class it is as it is "liars rights" on who really goes the quicker. IT IS Lots of fun to "beat" those with newer more powerful porsches. Especially with a 32 year old car.

mike, still have fingers in it, I guess.

QUOTE (Dave_Darling @ Nov 28 2005, 07:33 PM)

I'm in AX15, where I run against...  Ummm...  Nobody?  Britain was in that class when he was still down here.  He kept kicking my butt, though, even when his 1.7 had no sway bars! --DD

Dave, I'm planning to run my 73 2.0L on street tires in AX15 next year, so there will at least be two of us. Maybe for 07 I'll get a bigger engine.

----Bill

Your right Chilli,
I tried to convince the current powers that be for 3 years that this was not a good idea.
What I have heard is that LPR and MBR may not adopt the new rules...so Zone 7 will have at least 2 sets of competition rules, depending on who you are running with.
Have you heard anything about SVR adopting or stay with the old rules?
This will be interesting to say the least.
One of the other reasons the points system was proposed was to simplify classing your car so you supposedly could move from group to group easier? What ever that was supposed to mean.
Anyway, we have what we have.
I could run street tires for AX and be in AX 15 also. We will see

Nathan:
I see you've updated the 914cup standings....oh, never mind


Is the season over?

QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Nov 28 2005, 08:03 PM)

Have you heard anything about SVR adopting or stay with the old rules?

As far as I know we will continue to use the Zone Rules. We have never used GGR rules.

mike

QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Nov 28 2005, 08:03 PM)

One of the other reasons the points system was proposed was to simplify classing your car so you supposedly could move from group to group easier? What ever that was supposed to mean.

Another tought how does all this new stuff fit in the parade rules etc. Of course we have supported keeping the zone rules somewhat close to parade, even though most of the parade stull is out in left field.

mike

Actually the Zone in the past has adopted the GGR rules. That is why the Zone classifications always coincided with GGRs.
Same with all the regions in Zone 7.

It will be interesting to see if all the zone 7 regions adopt these new rules.
I see that Frederick Rauch is running quite a few DEs for SVR next season. More competition for GGR time trials and HSDS. No wonder we cant fill an event anymore.
Along with Hank's CDS group it puts alot of pressure on the available participants in the Zone. Not to mention good track dates.
This is going to be an interesting season on several fronts.
Are you going to work any of the SVR DEs?
I should be instructing at a few of them.

PCA rules make me

I really wish they would get on ONE PAGE. One set of rules for all of the USA.

It BLOWS to build a car for one part of the country and not be able to sell it to another part of the country. If I build a SCCA car.. I can sell it anywhere and it is legal.

Hi Chilli/Mike


B

It will be a long time before that happens Brad. National only recently got interested in
DEs let alone time trials. Even if they come up with a set of national rules the Region currently are not required to follow them.
Ask Masuo about national a club races and you will get the idea. That is one of the reasons Zone 7 has not hosted a club race in 3 years.
Too many hoops to jump thru and too many national big wigs to kiss A$$. We tried this year to get a few of Zone 7s track officials trained to put on our own club race with out having to import nationals cronies. They told us to go blow.
Doubtful it will happen for TTs. National has had parade rules for Ax for many years and most regions do not use them because the suck.

This is not difficult. Follow the PCA club racing rules for TT/DE.

There is a reason why groups like PRC and POC exist..

Make it a pain and nobody will come and play.

The Zone7 President before Larry used to call me up/track me down at all the AutoX's and Road races I attended asking me how he could get the 914Club people more involved with PCA... Tim was his name. I forgot his last name.

So far I like Zone8. I just wish I didnt have to travel a min. of 5 hours to get to a track down here.


B

Tim Fleming is the past Zone Representative. The problem with club racing rules is they do not apply to basically stock cars... and at DEs and TTs the majority of cars ( at least for their initial runs) are stock.
GGR has wrestled with this issue for years. GGR has been doing TTs for almost 30 years now. Ever since club racing started, there has been a proposal to accept club racing rules. No one has ever been able to do that along with inclusion of stock cars.
The Adhoc comm tried and quickly abandoned that idea and went with the points. The problem with that system is that you can run a stock car but there are no stock classifications. Every classification can have many different types of Porsches in various states of modification depending on the starting points. Stock cars not stock classes.
This issue has been circulating in the Zone for many years.

Yeah could you see my 1.8 going against a 996 TT on the track! LOL! AX is a differnt story. Should do fine there.

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Nov 28 2005, 08:03 PM)

Nathan: I see you've updated the 914cup standings....oh, never mind Is the season over?

The season is never over. Oh that's just for us southern boys.
Ilike the way the 914cup came out. At least MY CAR took 1st place in the Improved standings.
I am somewhere in the heap of mere mortals who can't drive worth a shit.
Well Hassan Malik can really drive the Red Neck Racer anytime. That SOB is fast.

PCA club race was never intended for stock cars. It was intended for those who want to race "race type porsches" but not do fender bending scca etc. That is why is was designed as a between scca and historics. It has somewhat evolved into more than was originally intended but still stays basically the same from a "type of event" format.

mike

That is why club race rules have not been adopted for GGR TT or DE.
Classify those cars and get out there next year regardless of the rules.