can a 1.7L djet system power a 2110cc motor....
by adjusting the head temp sensor, the mps, etc.....?


b

I don't know the answer to that question but If you need some 1.7 injection stuff let me know. I'll send you some parts.

yes

I think it might be short on the air dept....but you might be able to tune it to work.

No. The Cap'n

Capn, short on the air department??

all i need to know if the computers are kinda the same.....


b

A 2100 is already going to be on the verge of overheating. The LAST thing you want is to run it lean. It MAY be possible to tune it, using 2.0 injectors, but you'd have to tune the MPS, with special equipment and probably a dyno. Most importantly, you'd have to know what you were doing.

Just run L-jet, it's much more forgiving in the displacement department because it actually measures air.

QUOTE (bondo @ Dec 2 2005, 12:50 AM)

A 2100 is already going to be on the verge of overheating. The LAST thing you want is to run it lean. It MAY be possible to tune it, using 2.0 injectors, but you'd have to tune the MPS, with special equipment and probably a dyno. Most importantly, you'd have to know what you were doing. Just run L-jet, it's much more forgiving in the displacement department because it actually measures air.

I was plannign to use the EE lab's oscilloscopes to tune the mps with....

the LM-1 would also be my friend here....

resistors on teh CHT, etc. etc...

b

Resistors on the CHT is not a reliable way to change the mixture.

What does the VE curve of your 2.1L look like compared to the 1.7L? Are you running the same camshaft? Is the airflow being obstructed enough by the undersized FI system to hurt VE over some range of RPM and MAP conditions? Depending on the answers to those questions, you may be able to get it to work, if the MPS is tuned properly.

iit aint my engine...

its a 2110 type1 engine from a karmann ghia.

i'm helping a buddy worse off than i am.

his carbs work best with a 1850cc engine....

i can do better till he affords a MS system.

b

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 1 2005, 11:03 PM)

iit aint my engine... its a 2110 type1 engine from a karmann ghia. i'm helping a buddy worse off than i am. his carbs work best with a 1850cc engine.... i can do better till he affords a MS system. b

Britt, sounds like your learning alot about both systems. I have no idea what your talking about. If you friend is up to it, give it a try. If you can detect a lean mixture and can't adjust for it, pull it off. I think it would be great fun to try. I like stuff like that. It's a puzzle, let us know if it works.

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Dec 2 2005, 08:11 AM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 1 2005, 11:03 PM) iit aint my engine... its a 2110 type1 engine from a karmann ghia. i'm helping a buddy worse off than i am. his carbs work best with a 1850cc engine.... i can do better till he affords a MS system. b Britt, sounds like your learning alot about both systems. I have no idea what your talking about. If you friend is up to it, give it a try. If you can detect a lean mixture and can't adjust for it, pull it off. I think it would be great fun to try. I like stuff like that. It's a puzzle, let us know if it works.

cant quite tell if Rick not knowing what i'm talking about is a good thing or a bad thing...

speaking of mixtures, i asked my friend what his oil temps were reading...he told me he didnt have a guage.....

he's is worried that i wont be able to figure out a way to get my 4 bolt intake runners to fit his 2 bolt ports.....


he doesnt knwo me well at all....


drill anyone....? and some JB for the other holes?

b

D-jet on a type 1? Man, you're nuts! On the plus side, if you screw up and cut the lifespan of the engine in half, we're only talking about a matter of days.

Not sure how you're going to use a scope to tune the MPS...

I don't think the port spacing is at all the same on the Type 1 heads. You may have better luck with Type 3 parts. The Type 3s are essentially Type 1s with a pancake cooling system, and late ones ('68 on) had D-Jet. You might be able to find cheap Type 3 stuff on the Samba. There are plenty of people who give up fuel injection there, too, and dump it for carbs.

If he sells the carbs, he can probably afford the $100 or so for a basic MS kit...

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 2 2005, 12:03 AM)

iit aint my engine... its a 2110 type1 engine from a karmann ghia. i'm helping a buddy worse off than i am. his carbs work best with a 1850cc engine.... i can do better till he affords a MS system. b

so when you guys blow up his engine from mickey mouse engineering the d-jet on it, do you have the funds to replace the motor???

I agree with James, megasquirt it...it'll be less trouble than trying to jerk around and tweak the d-jet

in what way would you classify this mickey mouse?

this is a injection system made, from stock, to drive a 1700cc engine. even from mps tuning, I can increase the engine capacity from 1700 to AT LEAST 1830ish cc, which is what he had in the first place.

I am pretty sure he's running lean, this isnt a daily driver, and if it doesnt work...i havent lost anything



b

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 2 2005, 12:02 PM)

in what way would you classify this mickey mouse? this is a injection system made, from stock, to drive a 1700cc engine. even from mps tuning, I can increase the engine capacity from 1700 to AT LEAST 1830ish cc, which is what he had in the first place. I am pretty sure he's running lean, this isnt a daily driver, and if it doesnt work...i havent lost anything b

QUOTE

he's is worried that i wont be able to figure out a way to get my 4 bolt intake runners to fit his 2 bolt ports..... he doesnt knwo me well at all.... drill anyone....? and some JB for the other holes?

That and the motor you said was a 2110...if "built" more than likely it'll have a cam and flow better meaning it'll need more air/fuel....personally I don't care, luckly Type I's are cheap to rebuild when it goes booooom

Megasquirt will get you way better results and you will learn a lot more, but yes there is a learning curve. If you really want to do the d-jet you would be better off finding a more compatable VW d-jet system, I know they used it on bugs at some point so there must be some type I stuff around. Will the runners even clear the sheet metal, generator etc on top of the motor? You might have to fab risers. You will need to tweak the MPS a lot (using an LCR meter), maybe bigger injectors, maybe higher fuel pressure. If he has a hot cam in it, it probably won't idle very well, and you will probably have drivability problems (flat spots and stuff like that). If you really want to try it I think given enough time and energy you could probably get it to at least start and run, but I don't know how good the final result will be. If you do Megasquirt you have a better chance of winding up better off than the carbs he started with.

Take a look at the Vanagon 2.1 wasserboxer setup.

Looks like an updated L-jet, and the vanagon block uses T-1 spacing on the cylinder bores so the manifolds may fit.

Prolly need the dizzy and brain box and engine harness and the vibrating air bypass.

Ken

Jeff brings up a good point. If he's still running upright cooling on his Type I, there's no way you can use D-Jet. You'd have to convert to a Type 3 cooling setup to use D-Jet. I'd drop the whole EFI idea and just get a set of carbs that work on that engine. They're going to be a lot cheaper than anything you can get for EFI with a doghouse fan setup.

dreamwreckers

Locate the later BeetleMex FI setup and then install the djet stuff.
Tune it on a dyno using a A/F meter to adjust the MPS
If the cam has any over lap it will run like shit at idle.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 1 2005, 10:42 PM)

Capn, short on the air department?? all i need to know if the computers are kinda the same..... b

"The same"? No. Not even close. They do both have a metal box, though, with a multipin connector on one end. Operate on different principles, using mostly different inputs. The Cap'n

QUOTE (Mueller @ Dec 2 2005, 09:52 AM)

so when you guys blow up his engine from mickey mouse engineering the d-jet on it, do you have the funds to replace the motor??? I agree with James, megasquirt it...it'll be less trouble than trying to jerk around and tweak the d-jet

(sorta)

Mueller,

What other mods did you make on yours to run the megasquirt? How do you like it performance and reliability wise?

Thanks