I want to invest in a nice set of crimpers for uninsulated crimp terminals. I want something better than the $9.99 radio shack style. Ratcheting would be nice if it makes a better crimp. Does anyone here have any suggestions? I don't want to spend over $100.

This is the kind I don't want:


Sorry I couldn't find a better pic.

Klein Tools at Home Depot. Made in USA and decent price too.

The ones shown aren't for non-insulated terminals. I used the specializes equivalent of those for 20 years and they worked fine. I now use an expensive compound type, which aren't all that much better. To do it right, you need a sh*tload of different connectors, one for each size wire, and more than one set of crimpers. Ask me tomorrow during the day and I'll give you the brand name of the ones I use. The Cap'n

I picked one up for around $35.00 at our local electronics parts supermart. It's only good for the end terminals.I like them better than the ones the Cap'n uses (mine let go of the terminal without having to fight with it ). If you have a store like that in your area, check them out. I looked for a long time before I found the one I bought. For standard wire splicing, I just use a crimper I got at Harbor Freight. They do a nice job without being expensive.

I've found the ratcheting doesn't really make a better crimp. It mostly helps when you're making a LOT of crimps fairly quickly (assembly line style) to get consistent crimping. Just go slower and use more care, and you can use a non-ratcheting style and get good crimps.

If you take a squint at the factory spade and ring terminals, you'll see how the crimped bit folds back in and down into the wire. The only way to get this is with a die that's basically heart-shaped. I picked up one of these at Radio Shack ($30-35), or you can get them at Fry's. As the Cap'n says, you'll need terminals for the gauge of wire being crimped. I have 16-18g and 12-14g spade terminals, and 18, 14, and 10g ring terminals. I use 14g terminals when crimping two 18g wires together to daisy chain things (+12 to the gauges, or to the gauge lights, or gauge grounds). Make sure the crimper can handle 10-12g wires (many only go to 14g). There aren't many places you need to use wires that big, though the 10g size is handy for crimp terminals that also crimp to the wire insulation for strain relief. On a 14g wire, you'll often use the 10g crimp die on the insulation part.

The only place I've found the non-heart-shaped crimpers work well is on large gauge wires (8g and bigger), just because there's so much wire involved. You can see factory examples looking at the ends of the big wire that runs from the battery + terminal to the starter. There are very few such wires on the 914.

I've been meaning to see what Halted has. They show a number of crimpers on their website and I have a big ole credit I won at their annual sale this year

StaCon (sp?) crimpers.

Whoa. Lots of good suggestions here!

Am I right in assuming that the insulated type crimp connections are crap? (Just ask fiid...) I have never had much luck with them so I want to switch to uninsulated/heatshrink and a REAL crimp tool.

James - I have found that most unsinsulated crimp tools do not have heart shaped dies - they are more of a flat on one side and a cup on the other. The heart shape dies are usually found in crimpers for d-sub pins or open barrel connectors - different beasts than closed barrel uninsulated ones. I suspect that one can get away with using the heart shaped kind on the closed barrel connectors as you suggest but I wonder why there is a difference?

I have been looking on and off for about a year for a good manual on how to make REAL crimp connections, and I still haven't found anything that mentions what crimpers to use and the benefits of weatherproof splices (the kind with goo inside) etc. How come noone has written a book on this yet???

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Dec 12 2005, 11:12 PM)

How come noone has written a book on this yet???

Crimp to Win?

Crimping for Fun and Profit?

Crimping for Dummies

The Joy of Crimping.

Ah, crimpers...

The right ones are a joy to use. Usta use AMP ratcheting crimpers when I worked at a computer products company.

With them, it's impossible to screw up a crimp. Prolly $100 and then you need dies for the other sizes..... but.....

Using the ones you pictured is kinda like using channel locks to tighten a nut. A box end wrench works SOOOOOO much mo better..... And causes a LOT less damage to the parts...

I have a programmable EFI system and whenever I get it on the car, I'm buying a GOOD crimper set to do the wiring harness RIGHT. Somewhere I have a link for a set somebody recommended. I will look to see if it is still good.

Bad crimps cause corrosion, connection problems later. According to the US Military, a good crimp is BETTER than a good solder joint..

Ken

The Klein 1005 crimper/cutter is the best general purpose crimper I've used. I've had one for 15 years and done loads of automotive alarm/stereo/electrical work with it. You can use it for both insulated and non-insulated.

Jeff Bowlsby makes FI harnesses, what does he use?

(enter Jeff from stage right)...

My father used to work for Hollingsworth so I have a bunch of different ratchet type crimpers




I'd try eBay as well......

For all the various wire sizes and connector combinations, why would you not want to solder and heat-shrink the connections? No need to buy expensive crimpers that will never cover the complete range of combinations anyway.

Military crimpers and crimp joints are completely engineered for a very specific combination of wire type, size, and connector. Many crimpers and connectors are even designed to crimp right over the insulated wire.

Andys

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Dec 12 2005, 11:12 PM)

Whoa. Lots of good suggestions here! Am I right in assuming that the insulated type crimp connections are crap? (Just ask fiid...) I have never had much luck with them so I want to switch to uninsulated/heatshrink and a REAL crimp tool. James - I have found that most unsinsulated crimp tools do not have heart shaped dies - they are more of a flat on one side and a cup on the other. The heart shape dies are usually found in crimpers for d-sub pins or open barrel connectors - different beasts than closed barrel uninsulated ones. I suspect that one can get away with using the heart shaped kind on the closed barrel connectors as you suggest but I wonder why there is a difference? I have been looking on and off for about a year for a good manual on how to make REAL crimp connections, and I still haven't found anything that mentions what crimpers to use and the benefits of weatherproof splices (the kind with goo inside) etc. How come noone has written a book on this yet???

I don't use closed barrel terminals, and neither did the factory. The open barrel terminals are what most auto OEMs use, so you need to use open-barrel crimpers. Not easy to find, particularly for larger wire gauges, since most open barrel tools are made for electronics use, so 22-18g are the usual sizes seen. 14-10g are almost never seen outside the auto world.

The terminals for the excellent Weatherpak connectors are also open-barrel. Frankly, I have no idea who uses the closed barrel connectors in such quantity, nor do I understand why it's so hard to find open barrel terminals. I'm sure the suppliers exist, they sell to all of the automakers, but no doubt in million unit quantities.

Note the photo in Mueller's post. Those are exactly the type of twin open barrel crimps I like to see, complete with the extra fingers to grip the wire insulation.

QUOTE (andys @ Dec 13 2005, 10:00 AM)

For all the various wire sizes and connector combinations, why would you not want to solder and heat-shrink the connections? No need to buy expensive crimpers that will never cover the complete range of combinations anyway. Military crimpers and crimp joints are completely engineered for a very specific combination of wire type, size, and connector. Many crimpers and connectors are even designed to crimp right over the insulated wire. Andys

Because soldered connections are more brittle than crimped connections, and are not as reliable in a high-vibration environment. Soldered connections work great in electronics, but on loose wiring that flops around, vibrates, gets tugged on, etc, soldering really sucks. Again, this is what the OEM stuff does, and it's clearly good for 30 years of abuse. I've seen soldered connections fail in a few months of use on a car.

The number of combinations in a car harness really isn't that large. I have 18, 14, and 10g wire, with matching crimp-on connectors for each size. The ONLY wire you need outside of this is the one wire from the battery to the starter, which has to be 4 or 6g. The 10g is only used from the battery to the headlight area (all front lights) because of the long run. You could also use 2 14g wires instead and skip the 10g wire altogether. The 14 and 18 are used everywhere else, with most of the car is wired with 18g. The connectors also can accept and provide a good crimp on 2-3 sizes of wire, provided you have a good crimp tool.

I'll go check Halted and Fry's at lunch for crimpers. I have been pleased with the Bender Gardner or Garder Bender brand I picked up at OSH a few years ago for about $15. They are like a pair of dikes (the kind that cut wire not the other) with several dies for crimping, they seem to work very well on non-insulated terminals.

Your right about insulated terminals - they generally suck. If you can find the industrial type (Panduit brand is one) they are good, the crap you can find in the home improvement stores is crap that might be useful for sprinkler systems. I like the non-insulated ones with a little shrink tubing, looks clean and works well.

I got lucky and scored a box of about a dozen ratcheting crimpers (amp, molex) for $85 at a going out of bussiness auction. Unfortunalty it was the place I work at that was going out of bussiness.

Sorry,
I spoke incorrectly. I have used the Thomas and Betts WT111M for years. The Klein looks a lot like it, but I didn't have access to my tools when I posted the first time. It's great. Wire range is 22-10AWG and it has 2 crimp sizes as well as a cutter.

QUOTE

Sorry, I spoke incorrectly. I have used the Thomas and Betts WT111M for years. The Klein looks a lot like it, but I didn't have access to my tools when I posted the first time. It's great. Wire range is 22-10AWG and it has 2 crimp sizes as well as a cutter.

That's the best crimper! I have had the same pair for 18 years. I used to be the cellphone installer for Cellular One/AT&T when I was younger.

I used to wire up electric boilers......had a pair for 20 years & lost em'.Went & bought arother pair. Sta-Kon, eh? Never could speel worth spit.

Those crimpers look just like the ones I got at OSH.
I went to Fry's and halted at lunch today - nothing at all crimper wise. Fry's has a bunch of network and telco stuff nothing else, halted had some crap.

QUOTE (andys @ Dec 13 2005, 01:00 PM)

For all the various wire sizes and connector combinations, why would you not want to solder and heat-shrink the connections?

Unless you have one of those hi-tech crimpers, the cheaper ones usually just squeeze the metal in one place around the wire. The wire and metal will oxidize and could eventually cause a bad connection.

I always solder and heat shrink all connections, especially for wire-to-wire connections.

Spoke

The T&B set are my choice.

Well I took the advice of several folks here and bought a Thomas and Betts WT111M STA-KON Terminal Installing Tool, this is the same one shown in the picture above with the red and black handles.

This is a NICE tool. Specialized Products had one of the lowest prices around, $34 plus S/H.
http://www.specialized.net/ecommerce/shop/...duct_id=272X190

Here is a closeup of the crimping end of the tool. Notice how WIDE the dies are. The tool has some weight to it and the long handles give much needed leverage for crimping larger diameter wires. You can make gorgeous crimps without straining your hands.

Here is a comparison of a crimp with the WT111M (top) and a cheapo $10 crimp tool using the non-insul part of the tool (closer to the handle).

The top crimp has a lot more area and took a lot less effort than the bottom crimp. The top crimp also has a much nicer shape and doesn't show bulging of the barrel towards the open end, which I am guessing means a more secure connection.

Thanks for the followup Jeff. I'm gonna have to get one.

Added to my list of "must have" tools.


Thanks....

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Dec 23 2005, 01:25 PM)

Here is a comparison of a crimp with the WT111M (top) and a cheapo $10 crimp tool using the non-insul part of the tool (closer to the handle). The top crimp has a lot more area and took a lot less effort than the bottom crimp. The top crimp also has a much nicer shape and doesn't show bulging of the barrel towards the open end, which I am guessing means a more secure connection.

Cool, now find an adjustable current source and test them both to failure

Here's the crimp tool I use.

Here's the crimp-on connector I use.

Here's an example of a crimped connection. Note this takes two crimps, one for the wire, one for the insulation strain relief. I also randomly grabbed a 14g connector and stuck it on an 18g wire, so the wire crimp part isn't perfect. The 18g connector is smaller, and the wire would fill it better.

That's the kind I need to get James. I'm sick of the nasty color coded crap that I've been buying at NAPA. I need the good stuff.

The tool I got at Radio Shack for something like $35. Summit Racing also sells a tool like this, for about the same price.

The crimp-on connectors are from Waytek Wire, part no 31703. Problem is, Waytek has a big minimum order (250, I think), which is way more than you need for even a whole end-to-end harness on several cars. McMark, I'm sure you'd use that many eventually.

The same tool can also be used on the pins for the Weatherpak waterproof multipin connectors, which have a similar crimp type. You can get these from Waytek, too. Again, however, the minimum order is fairly sizeable. If you order everything you need from Waytek for a complete harness (wire, connectors, heat-shrink, and wire covering), you'll end up spending about $300, and you'll use about 1/4 of what you buy on one car.

After crimping, heat-shrink should be used over the connector and the crimp, to insulate it. If you really want to do a perfect job, use two sizes of heat shrink, one that just barely fits over the crimped part up to where the spade flares out, and the other that just barely fits over the spade itself, and extends down onto the crimped area a bit. Once done, this should last for decades even in the 914 engine bay with the rain tray removed, which is about the worst case scenario for any wiring job.

On longer wiring runs, heat-proof wire covering should be used to contain bundles of wires, esp. those wires that are in the engine bay, or run through bulkhead holes.

I'm thinking that I should order a few different sizes and sell them here for people.

The T&B, Klein and Ideal are the best general use crimpers. As a 22 year commercial electrician, I rarely solder. It's a great electrical connection but a lousy mechanical connection. One set of crimpers won't do it all, the ones above will go a long way. Eddy

James, the crimp terminals you have are the real deal, and I intend to get an open barrel crimper in addition to closed barrel crimper I just bought. The closed barrel stuff is good for larger gauge wires or quick and dirty stuff. I think it is important to have both tools if you plan to do any serious wiring. Those waytek terminals are really nice.

James,
Do you have a part # for that radio shack crimper? That's what I've been looking for but haven't been able to find.

QUOTE (chrisg @ Dec 24 2005, 06:51 PM)

James, Do you have a part # for that radio shack crimper? That's what I've been looking for but haven't been able to find.

I don't, but here's the Summit tool, which may be better still, since it can handle 5 wire sizes, not just 3 (two of which are too small for car stuff):

Summit Crimper

I may buy one of these myself.