Anybody using this unit - less than $300

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/air-...9000&country=US

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/AFX_Tunin...anual_Rev04.pdf

http://www.ngk.com/results_cross.asp?pid=91101&s=10

Is anyboby interested in building any units?? Does anyboby have a design?? I can do hardware but need sombody that can write "code".

Ken

If you want to say some money and build your own try TechEdge I have two of their units. Model 2A0 and 2E0. they are well put together kits, and thier accuracy compares favorably to the Motec, and FJO units my friend has.

Another good sort of affordable WB unit is made by PLX devices we have a couple of them in the shop the M300 is $325 now. again these units compare favorably to the references


Oop, just noticed the NGK is $295

I am very happy with my Tech Edge 2A0. I built it from a kit a couple years ago and it still works great, it is always powered on in the car.

The wbo2 hardware is very complex and I would be hesitant to reinvent the wheel, especially when the Tech Edge stuff is under $200 for a complete setup.

The Tech Edge is cheap, and the completely assembled Innovate Motorsports LC-1 is only $200 including a sensor. You have to supply a display (a multimeter will do, and it easily be made to work with the $15 narrowband displays you can get schematics for all over). If you spend $350, you get a fully-assembled unit with datalogging and a display (the LM-1). So, unless you really get off on trying to do it all yourself, there's no reason to do so anymore.

I intend to buy an LC-1 as soon as get to doing the Megasquirt thing in my 914, and I even own part interest in an LM-1 already...

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Dec 24 2005, 02:52 PM)

I am very happy with my Tech Edge 2A0. I built it from a kit a couple years ago and it still works great, it is always powered on in the car. The wbo2 hardware is very complex and I would be hesitant to reinvent the wheel, especially when the Tech Edge stuff is under $200 for a complete setup.

So, we spoke about this briefly, but what sort of AFRs do you see with D-Jet? Idle? Cruise? WOT? I'm sure it wanders all over the place, and it's probably lean in spots. Can you provide any details?

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php

Just checked "Tech Edge 2A0" page and it looks to me the US pricing is $350 or more depending on options.

Same with LM-1.

Ken

QUOTE (KenH @ Dec 24 2005, 03:46 PM)

Just checked "Tech Edge 2A0" page and it looks to me the US pricing is $350 or more depending on options. Same with LM-1. Ken

I think you need to read the prices again, Ken.

The LC-1 is $200 (with sensor, $150 w/o sensor), the LM-1 is $350.

LC-1 Store Page

The Tech Edge 2A0 KIT is about AU$190, which is US$140, with no display and no sensor. IMHO, the Tech Edge is no longer a good deal for US customers, simply because shipping from Oz will make the kit more expensive than the fully-assembled LC-1.

A display for either the LC-1 or the 2A0 is pretty easy to design and make, much easier than a complete WB02 board would be. If you're using aftermarket EFI that can take in a linear AFR signal (I know both MS and SDS will do this), the LC-1 is the killer deal, as it even has two outputs, one for the ECU, one for the gauge, and both are programmable in terms of output range for AFR.

I bought an AEM gauge type controller for my street car. I am really happy with it. It is really nice for a permanent setup. If you don't plan on tuning a bunch of cars get something like it. DynoJet offers a super nice unit also. It has datlogging capabilities.

If you are planning on tuning several cars, I would go right to the Innovate box or the Motec, or FJO. The portability of the Innovate box is really nice.

I have a Sensor for the Tech Edge. I would part with it cheap. It is a used NTK sensor.

I do know some systems need to be calibrated every so often.

Which units require calibration?

I have the WMS, it's $400, but no calibration needed and it also has data logging.


http://sdsefi.com/wmsmm.htm

I'm using a Tech Edge 2BO and it's great. Calibration is no problem, It uses the Bosch LSU 4 sensor which must be a tough SOB cause it survive a couple of engines inwhich the rings didn't seat. So, I know it's resistant to oil contamination.

Dave

Tim,

do you run a display guage (or data logging) on either of the race cars? Or do you only use the wideband in the shop for dyno work?

brant

We have wb displays in the racecars, in addition to the 4 gas meter and wb unit on the dyno.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Dec 24 2005, 04:18 PM)

A display for either the LC-1 or the 2A0 is pretty easy to design and make, much easier than a complete WB02 board would be. If you're using aftermarket EFI that can take in a linear AFR signal (I know both MS and SDS will do this), the LC-1 is the killer deal, as it even has two outputs, one for the ECU, one for the gauge, and both are programmable in terms of output range for AFR.

Do you have a design for the display??

Ken

QUOTE (KenH @ Dec 27 2005, 09:35 AM)

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Dec 24 2005, 04:18 PM) A display for either the LC-1 or the 2A0 is pretty easy to design and make, much easier than a complete WB02 board would be.  If you're using aftermarket EFI that can take in a linear AFR signal (I know both MS and SDS will do this), the LC-1 is the killer deal, as it even has two outputs, one for the ECU, one for the gauge, and both are programmable in terms of output range for AFR. Do you have a design for the display?? Ken

There are a zillion of them on the Net, but here's an example:

NB gauge design

They're all based around the National LM3914 voltage to bar-graph chip, basically making a voltmeter with a bar graph display, which you can tune in terms of range with a couple of resistors. The LC-1 can be programmed to display the AFR as any voltage range, so setting it up to use the narrowband voltage range (0-1v, 0.5v = 14.7) is easy (may even come that way as the default). So, any of the many designs you'll find on the web for displays for a narrowband sensor will work.

The example I showed uses one LM3914 to drive 10 LEDs, but you can chain these chips together to get 20 LEDs if you want more resolution.

Since the LC-1 analog outputs are programmable, you can also use a digital panel voltmeter and program the outputs so 14.7:1 shows up as 1.47v, 10:1 shows up as 1.00v, and 20:1 shows up as 2.00v. The LC-1 is probably limited to 5.0v max, so you'd have to mentally move the decimal point. You can pick up a panel meter very cheaply from several places, like Jameco:

Jameco Panel Meter

So for any of you with experience using the Innovate products. Can someone tell me how much is "recorded" with their XD1 guages? Is it only a peak value (I'm guessing) Or is it an actual bit of data?

We are likely to use this set up next year, but Do Not want to deal with carrying a lap top or complicating things at the track.

brant

The Innovate box can log AFR continuously for several minutes. It can also record MAP, TPS, RPM and a few other things if you feed the signals into the box. I would build a littel box, kinda like a radio box and mount the InnoVate box in it. Then you can download to a laptop after the race.

Brett,

I'm actually referring to the guage only.
the advertising literature for the guage says that is also has memory... but I wasn't clear how much memory.

I emailed the company but haven't heard back from them yet.

I really don't want to start carrying a lap top.
seems like one more thing to do at the track and I am trying to simplify.

plus the guage is only 3/4 of an inch thick and can be surface mounted, so it will be LIGHTER than the meter/box set up.

and I can't be adding any extra weight you know!
lol
brant

Sorry Brant I was referring to the Innovate box, LM-1. I don't know about the gauge.

no don't apologize.
its cool to hear about new things.
more info is always better!

brant

QUOTE (Mark Henry @ Dec 24 2005, 09:51 PM)

I do know some systems need to be calibrated every so often. Which units require calibration? I have the WMS, it's $400, but no calibration needed and it also has data logging. http://sdsefi.com/wmsmm.htm

Mark,

I certainly have very little direct experience (1 day of dyno time with a wide band total)

but my understanding on the calibration was that it was to compensate for what amounts to "wear" on the sensor. build up caused by contaminants.

the propaganda from innovate claims that race fuel, use, leaded fuel, etc. cause a build up on the sensor and that the calibration can help the system adjust for this contaminant.

brant

The WMS uses the Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor and Bosch calibration chip. It does it automaticly.

Lead will kill any/all sensors within time.

You can clean the lead out of the sensor by running it in a car using unleaded.Or you can use this stuff http://www.decalinchemicals.com/fueladditive.html but I hate additives.


BTW important note!!

You should never install a sensor without hooking it up!
Leave it off the car or leave it running!

Using it for just a bung plug will kill the sensor.



Heh-heh...Heh-heh, he said bung plug...cool.

QUOTE

but Do Not want to deal with carrying a lap top or complicating things at the track.

We typically have 3-4 laptops at the track.. I have 2 Panasonic Toughbooks...and yes they are tough

I log the a/f and other info into a DL1 or DL-90

after a run, I dump the file and have a look.. if there are any anamolies in a/f I usually know about it before I see it on the data logs.

anyhow I see laptops everywhere in the pits

An alternative:
http://www.scirocco.org/tech/misc/afgauge/af.html

Pat

Tim,

I'm pretty certain that if I regularly log temp, pressure, humidity... I'll be able to guestimate my jetting without any lap top.

its just one more thing that I would have to pack... worry about... fiddle with...
plus Its a carb'd car, so I really only want to use the wide band for gross changes and tell what I'm doing to my current baseline.

I think if I were traveling out of state more I might benefit from the data and the lap top, but for just visiting my same old tracks over and over I don't want the hassle. (now If I were running a F.I. set up or a turbo monster like you guys, then I might feel differently)

K.I.S.S. (and focus on the driving) is my goal for next year
brant