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slugmika
I had to make it public. That's the only way i'am going to get anything done.
So, i had to convert my rear suspension to multi link, raise the front suspension, built a new pedalbox, rebuilt the engine and tranny, make attachemets for new fg flared rear and front fenders, make a new carbon top, glue the new heated windshield, paint the car and lots of other stuff.

I will post pictures when ever i have any progress.

Here is the starting point
IPB Image
hub's are attached to table

IPB Image
lower part of the new front

i'll put more pictures later
URY914
Sounds easy enough. You should be done around 2008.
Good luck. biggrin.gif

Paul

slugmika
According to Historic Race Finland's 2006 schedule, it will be ready 27th of May 2006 biggrin.gif Wanna make a bet? dry.gif

Maybe i need to skip few things smile.gif but car is going to be in Botniaring race track and have engine & gearbox rebuilt and new suspension in that day.

Mika
Jeroen
where did you get that front bumper/spoiler?

keep us posted... looks like lots of fun stuff!

PS... I got your PM and I'll look into it real soon!
d914
ditto on the front bumper, I don't have to be legal for anything these days and I like that one piece unit..???
xitspd
ohmy.gif Mika,

Did you get my Christmas Card? That's quite a project that you are starting! Do you still need my front and rear FG quarter panels? Give my best regards to badJuha when you see him next. Take care and keep the pictures coming.

Dan
dougcoup
great project, i would love to see it progress. I am impressed.
I too am building up my race car this winter, I loved the posts of brads car before.
I would love to see more photos of your fabrication throughout the car.

doug
Brett W
I have been looking for an option for out bearings and stuff to use on my own custom rear suspension setup. I just found out about the S10 hubs and micro stubs. You can get many different options, plus the parts are available at Autozone and NAPA. I am trying to find the website. My brain has failed me. I'll get back to you.

Looks like a good plan.
slugmika
Hi guys
Yes this i a big project and i really need all the help i can get. Luckily there is people like BadJuha, Timo, Dan and all you helpful guys in 914club to make it easier pray.gif .
Jeroen, it seems that you have become the official designer of team bogeyracing biggrin.gif
The front bumper is lower part of the Opel Omega Evo somethings front end.
The rusty iron bar which you can see in the picture is going to be part of the upper bumper, it's hard to explain but i will take some pictures.
Dan, yes i just got back from north and the card was waiting, i'll get back to you privately. Yes i really need those rear FG quarter panels. I have the addres and number to Finnish guy who is shipping containers to Finland all the time. He's located in Compton.

Now back to work

Mika
slugmika
I had couple of hours to work on suspension today.
upper link 80% ready, actually these first ones i'am only using as a tool to make jig.
this upper will have adjuster in the front link. that is used for adjusting toe.
IPB Image
IPB Image
Jeroen
awesome!
can't wait for more
clap.gif
Aaron Cox
what are all the links going to mount to?


looks wicked mika!!!

BTW - why are ya using a tailshift? (just for mockup i hope)
Aaron Cox
and what trans flanges are those?? (915? adapters? BUS??? 930???)

what axles are ya using?
Allan
QUOTE (slugmika @ Dec 29 2005, 09:35 AM)
Yes i really need those rear FG quarter panels. I have the addres and number to Finnish guy who is shipping containers to Finland all the time. He's located in Compton.

Really???

The only reason I ask is that I go through the area every week.

Can I help?





Please don't get me shot.... blink.gif
TravisNeff
Aaron, check Slugmika's blog, bus cv adapters - I love the front swaybar!
Aaron Cox
QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Dec 30 2005, 08:54 PM)
Aaron, check Slugmika's blog, bus cv adapters - I love the front swaybar!

shoulda known! very cool

user posted image bus cv's he says
xitspd
QUOTE (slugmika @ Dec 30 2005, 12:05 PM)
I had couple of hours to work on suspension today.
upper link 80% ready, actually these first ones i'am only using as a tool to make jig.
this upper will have adjuster in the front link. that is used for adjusting toe.
user posted image
user posted image

Mika, Very, very cool! Are you using a tail shifter or is it a mock-up trans? Side shifters are much easier to use. Let me know what parts you need and I will try to help. Looks like you have great fabricating experience. I hope your shop is heated.......................

Dan
slugmika
Aaron- next will be the upper mount's, i will make those in a place of that wood stick. For now i will fabricate a frame which is welded to my chassis table. when all is done and check measured, i will lift the body over completed suspension and weld it to my gage and tub.
Yes those are bus cv's and bus axles with adapters, works really well.
Headrage-I'am sure you can help. When they get the parts to Compton in a box which has my name and address, rest is easy. Many times when i have tried to buy something it seems to be problem to sendt those directly to Finland or even to Compton.
Dan-If you look closely it is a side shifter tranny. I broke all my side shifter end covers so i had to use one from tail shifter. So i could use side shifter end piece if you guys have spare ones.
Fabricating is easy part of this project, it is the planning that has took my time. And yes Dan my carage is heated. It is insulated as a normal house in Finland and has floor heating and infra red heaters for paintin.
I will try to finish the upper mount today and take some pictures.

Mika
xitspd
ohmy.gif Mika,

Next week I will send you one of my spare 901 side shifter covers and the Porsche magazines I have been collecting for you. Happy New Year to all my Finnish friends. That includes Timo and BadJuha.
andys
Mika,

Great project; I wish you good luck. Are the pickup points on the chassis going to have any vertical adjustment? I'm curious as to how you plan to establish the appropriate geometry; i.e. instant center, roll center, camber curve, gain, etc, etc.

Andys
Mueller
neat...very inspiring....I wouldn't even know how to start a project like that..... clap.gif
slugmika
Happy New Year to all of you biggrin.gif Yesterday i didn't had chance to do much because our Armi doughter got sick and we were at the hospital till 11.
Thanks Dan, i will forward your greetings to Juha. Btw did you get my email 3 weeks ago? If you are coming to Finland next summer we'll take you to Ahvenisto race track to test our cars. Our team is organicing a 6 hours endurance race for aircooled volkswagens in Ahvenisto. If you or any other 914club member is interrested, Bogeyracing could sponsor a car for you.

"Great project; I wish you good luck. Are the pickup points on the chassis going to have any vertical adjustment? I'm curious as to how you plan to establish the appropriate geometry; i.e. instant center, roll center, camber curve, gain, etc, etc.

Links will be straight so the roll center is in ground level. Uniballs will attach to pickup point horizontaly and there will be room to space those up and down. Main camber curve is from the design and amount of it is adjusted from the uniballs. Toe will be adjusted from the fron upper link. That will have adjuster piece in the midle of the link and unibal. adjuster will have right and left side threads in it. Biggest ? is the anti squat but i maybe just try my best gues and put it there. That is in a case that i can't figure out easy way to make it adjustable. As i'am not an engineer, it takes time to plan these but i have noticed that best way to me to do these kind of things is just start fabricating and making changes. So if you have good ideas how to make this setup better, feel free to speak.

Mueller- For me the starting is normally the hardest part biggrin.gif

Mika
slugmika
Upper pick up point in its place. I made the actual pick up's bolted to the frame so if i need more radical changes i can just make different kind of pick up points.
IPB Image
Next will be the lower frame part, pick up's and lower links.
Now it is much easier when i finally have upper links with pick up points and frame part ready. Most of my time today went to measuring and checking that everything is level and pointing in a same direction. I can use this upper frame as my reference point for the others.
Here is my garage 5 minutes ago
IPB Image

-Mika-
Jeroen
did you just weld nuts to the ends of the square tubing?

just curious...
why not mount the inboard rod ends in a vertical plane as well (like the ones at the hub)
and maybe mount them in double shear?
slugmika
Hi Jeroen
Yes i just welded nuts. But these are not the ones i will be using. These are just for making a template to jig. Thats why there is different kind of unibals and some of the parts are not welded as they should.
I just like it this way because it is easier to adjust these with shims. I was thinking about vertical but i don't know, thís was just my idea of easy. wink.gif
They will be in double shear (if it is like between two layers of metal[my english sad.gif ])

-Mika-

did you just weld nuts to the ends of the square tubing?

just curious...
why not mount the inboard rod ends in a vertical plane as well (like the ones at the hub)
and maybe mount them in double shear?
914_1.8t
Any update on this? Very interested to see how this comes out.
slugmika
Hi
i'we been sick so there's not so much progress.
i will post some pictures of my new aluminium upper
arms and current status later today.
one thing that i did when i was sick at home, i bought a aluminium Koni
douple adjustable shocks from ebay.

later

Mika
ChrisFoley
Wow, I'm impressed Mika!
It seems like only a few weeks ago you were interested in raising the stock trailing arm pickups.
Very cool! smile.gif
slugmika
Hi Chris.
Thats true, after that i noticed that all my trailing arms, includint the current ones are bendt. It is really hard to find stock trailing arms in Finland and it would have taken too much time to build custom ones for stock mounts.

I decided that it is easier to make the rear this way.

Here is the new frame for trailing arms
IPB Image
I finally tested my tig welder with this one. I bought the welder 2 years ago but this was the first time i used it, it was really fun.
close up of the first of these thingys (dont know the word in english)
IPB Image
And here is new upper arms
IPB Image
I'll take better pictures later today.

-Mika
messix
heim joint
slugmika
No, i mean the thing that i attach the heim joint.
IPB Image
Tomorrow i have more time to work on car. There is not
so much to do other than stay inside, its -13F here <!-- emo&;) -->IPB Image<!-- endemo -->

-Mika
Jeroen
those susp arms look sweeeeet!!!
messix
bracket, or mount?
slugmika
I'am still sick sad.gif
Luckily i have had couple of helpers so some progress.
All the brackets are made and so are the upper and lower arms.
Frame in this picture is about in a right place.
user posted image
Next thing is to weld those frames to table.
When those are in a table and arms connected to hubs, i can lift
the body to its place.

Mika
slugmika
Left side is finally finished.
Hub is ready and whole assembly is welded to table.
IPB Image
IPB Image
Tested the suspension travel yesterday and i was happy.
Hubs are going to be made of aluminium later.
Next thing is to make the right side ready and start building
the front axle.

Actually i still need to make the mount for new Koni's to those hubs.
racerx7



It looks very impressive.

How do you go about figuring, camber, caster, rear bump steer angels, roll center?? Do you have to know the wheel base vs width in relation to the front and rear? Do you have to factor weight bias? Do have to know ahead of time what size tire/width you will be running?

I have always wanted to do that.
slugmika
I'we been drawing and simulating these in paper. Camber gain is calculated to 2" suspension travel (bump) and it is from static zero to 5mm in 2". That can be adjusted from upper or lower trailing arms. Caster is zero but can be adjusted with different upper mounts. Roll center is in ground level because of the instant center is in infinity (horizontal arms). Roll center is adjusted by changing the upper arms angle. Toe is adjusted from the bolts in upper arms.
I made this set up with stock wheel base and width (if i understand what you mean). I'am trying not to mess the current weight bias much. I'we buildt this set up for 245/50/16 wheels, so hubs are in a center of that.
When i'am lifting the body to this new suspension, i will set up the ride height to about 3".
I need to figure out the front next. Thought about raising the spindles 1" and maybe the whole axle set up 1".

I'am not a professional in this kind of things. I just ordered some books and tried to search 914club and other pages to find info. If someone notices something fatally wrong in my build up please inform me. I needed to just built this and start testing, i don't think it is worse than the original setup.

Mika
racerx7

First let me say you know a lot more than I do. I have only read books. This stuff fascinates me.

When I meant toe, I meant toe when your car is in a turn and hit a bump. What does the
rear tires do then? Do the tires toe in. toe out. by how much. Is there any toe dialed in
for acceleration or braking? It hurts my head to think about it:)

I am sure what ever you are making has to be better than the stock 914 suspension rear
geometry. Flame suite on.

I am not 100% sure about this but some cars like the old 240z the rear suspension seemed liked the toe
does not change on it through out its travel. While the 914 stock suspension does. That long semi-trailing arm creates toe & camber changes as it goes through its travel. It seems like the tire would have a lot of leverage againts the rear suspension of a 914. I think it would be very difficult for the rear suspension to make the tire go where it suspose to go.


When you design the rear suspension did you have to take into a account how the front suspension works (camber changes, roll centers, etc..). Did you have to take into account the wheel base? Or can you just design the rear suspension independent of the front?

As an example I wonder what would happen if took the rear suspension off the 1992-1995 rx7. car
with double wishbone front rear weight 50/50 and put it on a 1987 mustang. different wheel base.
the front suspension is strut. I am guessing the wheel bases must be different and the mustang
is more like 65/45. I would think this car would do wierd things in a turn hitting a bump.

I can not wait to see the finish product and the test results.

slugmika
At the moment toe is not changing thru the travel or due acceleration or braking.
My problems have mainly been in rear so i haven't planned so radical changes to front.
We'll see how much this changes when the rear end starts to work better smile.gif
There is couple of theories about front wheel base vs rear. I think i will try to get those pretty close to each other. When i get my new fg fenders and quarter panels then i'll know how wide front i can run. I'am going to make the above mentioned changes to get the front rc closer the new rear suspensions rc and start with otherwise original front suspension.

Mika
914Timo
WOOO-HOOOO !!!! clap56.gif

Nice progress. Those suspension arms looks VERY nice wub.gif
slugmika
Thanks Timo
As you can see, i did it as we planned the other day.
Thanks for your advises.
I'am still sick so progress is quite slow.

Mika
914Timo
Oh, really. I am glad if my thoughts help you.

Hope you´ll get well soon.

Have you heard anything about those parts coming to me ?? As soon as you get them I could come and see your project. I can hardly wait to see those suspension arms in live. They are ..... drooley.gif
turbo914v8
Your work is off the hook. When it’s all done, I think you all your troubles and hard work will pay off. I for one would pay you to supply me with parts, finished product as an upgrade for my 914. I think that a lot of 914 owners here probably feel the same. Keep up the great work and just remember when you’re famous that I am first in line for your products. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif smilie_pokal.gif smilie_pokal.gif
Jeroen
QUOTE (turbo914v8 @ Jan 30 2006, 09:47 PM)
I for one would pay you to supply me with parts

agree.gif
put me second in line biggrin.gif

pray.gif pray.gif pray.gif
biggy72
I was just wondering if you have the steel heim joints threaded directly into the aluminum. If it is it may cause some gauling, and may not be the easiest thing in the world when you go to adjust it.

Generally you want to keep your rear track width a little more narrow than the front as this allows the rear of the car to pivot easier and it will follow the front better. This might not be possible depending on how big of a motor you're running and how wide of tires you need to keep traction, but generally it's what I've seen as a rule of thumb to try to keep with.

it looks like your lower control arms are shorter than your uppers and that's the right idea there, but I'm not a big fan of keeping both of the a arms parallel. It doesn't have an instant center and so the roll center does weird things (from what I've read). I just got done designing some suspension geometry for a formula sae car and I put the rear roll center right at ground level when it's static, and it goes more below ground under bump. From what I've read this helps eleviate the need for a sway bar. Over the next couple years I'll get to experiment with a few different geometry set ups and we'll see what each change does.

Almost everything I just said is only from research and I haven't put it on a car yet.... well except the aluminum a arm thing. I'm in the process of building steel a arms that are lighter and won't fatigue like the aluminum does.
slugmika
Thanks for your comments guys.
"I was just wondering if you have the steel heim joints threaded directly into the aluminum. If it is it may cause some gauling, and may not be the easiest thing in the world when you go to adjust it."

-Yes those are threaded directly into the aluminium. I am using Castrols anti corrosion lubricant with those. I haven't had any problems with same kind of connections earlier with this Castrol stuff. If we have problems with gauling, we'll add steel insert to the arms.

"Generally you want to keep your rear track width a little more narrow than the front as this allows the rear of the car to pivot easier and it will follow the front better. This might not be possible depending on how big of a motor you're running and how wide of tires you need to keep traction, but generally it's what I've seen as a rule of thumb to try to keep with."

-Thats true, i will try to keep the original difference in my car. Last season we had much wider rear than front and it was working better than original set up but that was because of other problems in rear.

"it looks like your lower control arms are shorter than your uppers and that's the right idea there, but I'm not a big fan of keeping both of the a arms parallel. It doesn't have an instant center and so the roll center does weird things (from what I've read)."

-Actually upper are shorter wink.gif . Reason for parallel arms is that it's easy starting point. Now i can adjust roll and instant center just by changing the upper arms inner pivot point. I'am sure this is not the best way to do it but i think this is zillion time better than my cars original set up.

"I just got done designing some suspension geometry for a formula sae car and I put the rear roll center right at ground level when it's static, and it goes more below ground under bump. From what I've read this helps eleviate the need for a sway bar. Over the next couple years I'll get to experiment with a few different geometry set ups and we'll see what each change does."

-So you must have nice software to design these things? I really should have found someone with suspension software before i started this project. I'we been checking those sae formulas and those seem to be really well thought machines. I'am sure your design is in totally different level than mine but i'we done my best. My design might not be "optimal" but i think it is nice starting point for testing.

"Almost everything I just said is only from research and I haven't put it on a car yet.... well except the aluminum a arm thing. I'm in the process of building steel a arms that are lighter and won't fatigue like the aluminum does."

-I'am not worried about the fatigue of these aluminium arms but i'am also building steel a arms to test few things.
Thanks for your comments, keep em coming

-Mika-
biggy72
ya I meant the top arms were shorter, don't know why I said that.

Well the software I've got isn't really suspension software, it's just solid works, just a cad drawing program. It lets you set points on top of other points and then adjust one thing or the other to see how the articulation works. Makes it really easy to see the camber curve, instant centers, roll centers, and you can draw up any parts and test them under different conditions to see where the weak points will be. I'm not a pro on the program at all. I've just been teaching myself so I can apply the things to the formula car since there aren't any classes offered here for it.

While your car's not exactly a formula car alot of the things are just common to a double a arm set up. With our current car we've got the front roll center right at ground level at static height, and the rear pretty far below. The car's handling really neutral without a sway bar, but it feels really lazy when turning, and I think the roll center along with a couple other problems is causing it. We'll see how next year's car works out.

Good luck with your set up, the z link in the rear should work really well from everyone else I've seen with it, and I'm building something really similar for our new a arms.
racerx7
WSU Formula SAE Drivetrain Lead/ Suspension Team
http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~sae/

pray.gif pray.gif


Please for this arm chair want to be designer, could you recommend books, software for me to look and read about.

I have always wanted to go to school just so I could enter
that contest. Maybe in my next life time.
slugmika
ok i'll make one set of brackets which makes the rc radically below ground level so we can test that too.

Mika

ps. there has been lots of interrest about front spoiler. that is copy of Opel Omega Lotus part.
biggy72
QUOTE (racerx7 @ Jan 31 2006, 12:31 AM)
WSU Formula SAE Drivetrain Lead/ Suspension Team
http://www.mme.wsu.edu/~sae/

pray.gif pray.gif


Please for this arm chair want to be designer, could you recommend books, software for me to look and read about.

I have always wanted to go to school just so I could enter
that contest. Maybe in my next life time.

I really wouldn't go that far... It's only my second semester here, and we're a first year fsae team. I think our car is decent, but there's a steep learning curve going on right now for just about everyone involved.

As for books, there are lots, but the best overall book that we use quite a bit is Race Car Vehicle Dynamics ( http://www.sae.org/servlets/productDetail?...K&PROD_CD=R-280 ) and for programs we mostly just use solid works.

Really at this point I don't know much, but I'm learning quite a bit about this type of stuff right now, and hopefully I'll only pick up more as I go.
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