Okay, so now I'm stuck.

I've been planning on a front mounted cooler. Now, the rules in my class forbid me from cutting sheet metal, and do not allow me to duct air to or from the oil cooler. But I -can- place the cooler into an opening of an air dam. And air dams are unrestricted.

My plan was to use the RSR style air dam from GT racing, and put a 42 row, 1/2 width plate-style oil cooler in the opening. Unfortunately, the dimensions I got off the website were not -entirely- accurate . As you can see here (see picture), the cooler doesn't exactly fit -into- the air dam opening...Even if I cut off the mounting tabs (which I was planing on doing anyway and using a custom mount)...

The only other cooler I've found that would fit in this air dam is a generic tube-and-fin oil cooler.

So, here's the question...

Which would provide better cooling efficiency?

A tube-and-fin oil cooler mounted up front in this air dam? Or a 35-row, 11" wide plate-style oil cooler with a pull-type fan on it stuck somewhere back around the engine/tranny?

(I already have the 35-row cooler and fan, I used to have it mounted on the engine lid, but was hoping for something better)...

-Josh2

I don't really know the answer to your question, I would think that it would be more efficient up front, but you lack ducting in the front.

Brad help build up Butch's car with a type 4 engine and the oil cooler up front under a 75-76 style fiberglass bumper (I think the engine did not have an engine mounted cooler). The tub wasn't cut so there wasn't any ducting. Try a search

mine works fine in the back.The last trip to San Diego and back I didnt see temps more than 1/2 way up the guage. I have to pull 10 mile grades on that trip and the 0il temp stayed on the low side.
Bernie

If u are using the car on the track the cooler has to be in the front..... Been there done that..

Only place for the track is in the front. And with the size of the cooler u have u may want to run 2 .

Okay...

Did a little research...

I think I'll still be better off going with the tube-n-fin cooler up in front. The big catch is that I have gobs of high pressure, cold air whistling though the oil cooler up front. And in back, I'm pulling pre-heated, low pressure air through a more efficient cooler design, but the heat transfer will suck.

That, and the 20 feet of AN-10 line going to and from the cooler can only help add to the cooling capacity as well.

What I also found out is that the regular tube-n-fin coolers of the size I need are made for transmission fluid, not engine oil. They have turbulators inside the tubing to increase heat transfer. If I order one, I have to make sure it's a special mod order (they do it all the time apparently, so why not just make it a product?), to remove the turbulators. That, and they're only 3/8 tubing with AN-6 fittings. So, the pressure drop I get going all the way up to the front of the car might actually be offset by the restriction going from AN-10 down to AN-6.

Okay, the thing about it actually being a good thing that it's only 3/8" tubing is just desperate reaching for something possitive.... But at least it'll work...

Should be interesting... And it'll cost around 1/10th of what the Fluidyne cooler would have. Not that it'll be as efficient, but it'll fit, and it'll be in my budget. Both of which are key elements of this project...

-Josh2

Your post did not say what your engine is. If it is a 6 cylinder, most any 6 will require oil cooling up front for the track. Are cooling fans legal? If so, there is room on the passenger side of the tranny for a cooler with fan, and Rich Johnson put one on the driver's side, if I remember correctly. Either way, they both require fans due to their proximity. I have been told that if the engine constantly runs over 220 degrees, you will shorten the life of your engine.

It's a stock 2.0L 4. Balanced, but not lightened, bored, big-valved or running anything other than the stock cam...

This will be an additional cooler, the stock cooler is still going to be in place.

And yes, it's for the track. Daily driver as well, but this cooling is intended for the track first and foremost...

-Josh2

maybe use steel or copper tubing to route the oil too and from the front, this will add some cooling, more so than rubber lines.

Its a big pain in the butt Josh...
but my black car has aluminum tubing down the outside of the longitudinals to increase cooling.... (both to and fro)

big pain in the butt to install
and we had to put it in first and flare it after to make it work.
we picked up on the front and on the back of it with AN-12

I don't think you'll need it though.
you'll be fine with any type of front cooler
brant

volume of the lines is good.... how much cooling do you need?

im guessing that even with NO ducting youll be fine.


BTW - where are you tapping the oil from? Mocal sandwich plate????

AA

Yup, Mocal sandwich plate with the internal t-stat.

Right now I have two nice big coils of Aeroquip AN-10 line. I haven't cut it yet, as I haven't decided exactly how I want to route it.

My plan right now is probably along the right side rocker or heater tube, and then under the gas tank and into the front trunk. Not sure yet though...

Brant, the thought of fabricating hard lines that fit up the side of the rocker sounds nice. But it also sounds like a PITA.

-Josh2

QUOTE (jhadler @ Jan 5 2006, 10:20 AM)

Yup, Mocal sandwich plate with the internal t-stat. Right now I have two nice big coils of Aeroquip AN-10 line. I haven't cut it yet, as I haven't decided exactly how I want to route it. My plan right now is probably along the right side rocker or heater tube, and then under the gas tank and into the front trunk. Not sure yet though... Brant, the thought of fabricating hard lines that fit up the side of the rocker sounds nice. But it also sounds like a PITA. -Josh2

im running the same on my street car...


fwiw - i read (maybe it was brant..) that they removed the internal tsat on the mocal piece to aid in better flow....


YMMV - and your warmups would be way longer

QUOTE (jhadler @ Jan 5 2006, 10:20 AM)

Yup, Mocal sandwich plate with the internal t-stat. Right now I have two nice big coils of Aeroquip AN-10 line. I haven't cut it yet, as I haven't decided exactly how I want to route it. My plan right now is probably along the right side rocker or heater tube, and then under the gas tank and into the front trunk. Not sure yet though... Brant, the thought of fabricating hard lines that fit up the side of the rocker sounds nice. But it also sounds like a PITA. -Josh2

big PITA...

at the time it sounded a tiny bit cheaper on paper, and theoretically increased cooling.

but I wouldn't do it again...
(I'd spend the extra $ and just use whichever type of line the whole route)

kinda like your fuel line replacement experience!

brant

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 5 2006, 10:22 AM)

QUOTE (jhadler @ Jan 5 2006, 10:20 AM) Yup, Mocal sandwich plate with the internal t-stat. Right now I have two nice big coils of Aeroquip AN-10 line. I haven't cut it yet, as I haven't decided exactly how I want to route it. My plan right now is probably along the right side rocker or heater tube, and then under the gas tank and into the front trunk. Not sure yet though... Brant, the thought of fabricating hard lines that fit up the side of the rocker sounds nice. But it also sounds like a PITA. -Josh2 im running the same on my street car... fwiw - i read (maybe it was brant..) that they removed the internal tsat on the mocal piece to aid in better flow.... YMMV - and your warmups would be way longer

Aaron,

that was me...
we did it on a race only car that we needed to increase the cooling on.

and we did it again on the current race car.

but its not a good idea for a street set up or year round driver by any means... The 2 times I've done it were trailer'd only cars.

(I'm only clarifying so that I don't get flamed about thermostats)

brant

old age and all i couldnt remember who it was

yes...race only...

BTW - how long does it take to warm upyour car?

QUOTE (jhadler @ Jan 4 2006, 03:53 PM)

A tube-and-fin oil cooler mounted up front in this air dam? Or a 35-row, 11" wide plate-style oil cooler with a pull-type fan on it stuck somewhere back around the engine/tranny?

for a track car, front mounted all the way. even without ducting, the cooler will be getting sufficient airflow.
some of the factory GTs just had a cooler mounted on tabs to the underside of the front bumper.
no cutting of the tub, no ducting ...

it'll be better than no cooler and it'll be better than a cooler under the rear trunk ...
Andy

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 5 2006, 10:28 AM)

old age and all i couldnt remember who it was yes...race only... BTW - how long does it take to warm upyour car?

forever...
I idle it for 20 minutes and then do warm up laps (slowly) for a while.

Once I get it up to temp, Its much better and for subsequent sessions its in operating temp by half a lap.

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jan 5 2006, 09:37 AM)

[/QUOTE] for a track car, front mounted all the way. even without ducting, the cooler will be getting sufficient airflow. some of the factory GTs just had a cooler mounted on tabs to the underside of the front bumper. no cutting of the tub, no ducting ... it'll be better than no cooler and it'll be better than a cooler under the rear trunk ... Andy

A buddy of mine went through the same experience with is teener. Moved the cooler from back with fan the the front bumper and didn't provide any ducting behind the cooler/bumper combo. It dramatically decreased his temps (30-40 degrees) on a fairly hot 4 banger. It's used for track days and autocrosses only.

Dion