I would appreciate inputs from the 914Club collective as to what The Beast would fetch on the open market if I were to sell her without an engine and transmission. I'm talking fair market value.

Here are the specs:

*TonyC cage with Petty bar, tied in at the suspension points both front and rear
*Camber boxes up front
*Tube Frame rear
*Front and Rear suspension points raised 2 inches in the frame done right on a Celette bench
*Sheridan Narrow Body Kit Front and Rear
*Fiberglass Hoods
*Fuel Safe fuel cell with fuel starvation resevoir
*Fresh Powder Coated tub (white)
*Fresh Exterior paint by Yeaman Autobody (Yellow, Orange, or Red)
*WEVO shifter for 915 or 901 (Take your pick, I've got both)
*Smart Racing 27mm Front AR bar
*Advanced Design Ground Control 2 way adjustable shocks coil overs all 4 corners
*Spring rates TBD (I've got a bunch)
*23mm master cylinder
*Rebuilt pedal cluster
*JRZ 4 piston brake calipers front and rear
*Cockpit adjustable brake bias valve
*Front Oil Cooler big enough for a 993 3.6
*20 quart front mount oil tank (Partick Motorsports)
*Carbon Fiber rear wing with 0,3, and 7 degree angle adjustments
*Smart Racing quick disconnect steering wheel hub (Momo steering wheel included)
*Mueller's Roller Bearing suspension
*Rich Johnson bulkhead -6 mount
*Sparco EVO2 Racing Seats
*Teamtech 5 point harnesses
*Fire bottle
*Lexan rear window
*(8) 16x10 Diamond Racing Wheels with Hoosier slicks (23.5x11.5x16)
*Rebuilt steering rack

This will be a nicely done track car that can also be a TTOD car at local AX's (narrow body) and fresh paint, suspension, and tires.

I am debating how far to take it. Obviously, if I keep it, I have to sell Fritz. If I keep Fritz, I have to sell The Beast. And there lies the rub. Do I go to the added expense of adding a drive train, or is it a push on cost vs. recovered cost?

I have a 901 MSX box and no motor right now, but it may be just the same to sell the above sans motor and transaxle.

What do you think the car is worth as stated in the above configuration?

Thanks in advance for everyone's help!

Bill P.

Figure about a quarter of what you have into the parts.

I dunno. 10, 12k.

Probably half that, in this depressed market...

Why, are you selling it?


M

Hi Bill,

Are you having second thoughts? I was under the impression that when you bought Fritz it was with the intention of getting rid of the Beast. Or was that J-Lo? Man I can't keep up with you rich folks

How much of the car is together vs. how much is there left to do (I'm trying to remember from your previous threads on the subject). My guess from your description is that everything has been done to the tub short of paint, and all the parts are in boxes.

I'm not sure of dollar amounts, you might get $10k for everything in the lot, more if you sell it off piece by piece. Maybe $15k as a fresh built car minus the drivetrain (after putting $7500 more into paint and assembly) .

Here's a thought; if Fritz's engine is well sorted why not put it in the Beast? You may get more (or lessen the loss) by selling the 911 chassis vs. the 914.

But the short answer is I think it's worth more than 95% of us would or could pay for it.

Keep us posted,

Jon

Hi John,

Purchase price of the car included the body work and paint and assembly of the car. I'm not sure if the assembly of the car will actually happen, but the paint will.

I bought Fritz because it was a good deal and I could run this year and not sit out another year. But as I get more familiar with Fritz, I realize that it's a pretty nicely built car, probably as good or better that I could ever make The Beast (for the same amount of money), so it's a tough call, being I'm a 914 guy.

I could take the motor out of Fritz and replace it with something else, if I keep The Beast. A 911 built like Fritz will always have a broader market.

Bottom line is that I want to get out of the hole I've dug for myself on The Beast one way or the other, either selling the 911 or the 914. That's why I'm curious about what people believe is a realistic price I can get for the 914. I can sit on it for awhile and I realize it will appeal to a very small market segment, but I don't want to give it away.

Thanks for the inputs!

Keep them coming!

Bill P.

I was thinking $10k as well. I think one major detraction is that it's not proven. If you had some wins or even some lap times I would expect better sale-ability.

Bill - I can understand the need to get out on the track. Fritz is a very nice car. I would love to see you complete The Beast. (I thought you had already decided to give up the project) I know it is tough to let go of a dream. **inside info** I will never build a race car again. Buying someone elses is much cheaper and easier.

It is OK if you have lost your heart for this project. There will be time for another 914 later. Sell The Beast in pieces. It is worth more as parts than it is as a car.

Generally projects get $0.25 on the $1.00 spent. Selling the parts you can recoupe 75% to 90% on your cost.

I have to agree with the others, likely in the 10k range.
It'd be a shame to strip down what sounds like a really nice roller and sell it off as parts. That'll ultimatly bring a little more money, but is it worth your time to work out several deals, take everything apart, package and ship it?

I don't think I'll build another racecar either. My 240Z still isn't quite ready for prime time. I've got likely 30k in it and I'd be lucky to get 12k if I put it up for sale. I've thought several times about getting out of it, but the hit I'd take would be huge, plus, I really like the car.

That being said, if you do decide to sell the car, or part it, I would like know!

QUOTE (GWN7 @ Jan 6 2006, 07:35 AM)

Generally projects get $0.25 on the $1.00 spent. Selling the parts you can recoupe 75% to 90% on your cost.

I hate to agree but I have to. That will be a sad day thou.

Unfortunately, this kind of stuff normally falls into a buyers market, and it's only worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Establishing a fare (to you) price is extremely difficult, IMO. Used race stuff, or partially completed race/performance stuff, in my experience, usually falls into the give-away price catagory; BTDT. I would estabilish what you think you'd like to get out of it, then advertise as "Make Offer." If your list of components whets someone's appetite, pique's thier interest, and the offer is close, take it.

Andys

Bill,
I have been watching auctions and listings for two years solid. I have never seen a racer sans engine sell for 10K no matter how well equipped. I'll give you $6500 cash!

I've been doing the same thing as far as watching race cars without drivetrain selling and the only ones I've seen go for over $10K have been 911's. I believe it's possible to get to the $10K+ threshold if the right buyer shows up as Andys points out, but not likely in a timely fashion.

I have the room to do the strip down and sell routine...but I may not want to go that route....

I could stuff a motor in there...but it's added cost...and probably only makes it easier to sell, not more profitable.

Keep the comments coming!

Thanks,

Bill P.

Hmmm....
MSX gear box

We might need to talk, Bill.

I would do which ever leaves me in the best financial shape.
I had the same problem at one point...911 vs 914. I had less in the 911 & could sell it for more than the 914. Adios 911.

think Scott would want to buy it back if he sells his race car?

Hi Mike,

Scott has another tube frame 914 that is built by the same guy who did the one he is selling. He plans on getting that one together next. I don't think he would be interested in my car.

Bill P.

QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jan 6 2006, 12:22 AM)

Bottom line is that I want to get out of the hole I've dug for myself on The Beast one way or the other, either selling the 911 or the 914. That's why I'm curious about what people believe is a realistic price I can get for the 914. I can sit on it for awhile and I realize it will appeal to a very small market segment, but I don't want to give it away.

Most here are "bargain" builders/buyers (myself included). All said is true for the common market but approach the high end market.

The guys with bank go to reputable shops and pay the premium prices. PMS, Bauer, or other established Porsche tuners may buy your car, work their magic, and sell it to a high end buyer. An alternative is they can sell your car as "finish to suit".

The problem with sitting on it too long is the parts obsolesence.

"Donate a Car" won't give you a big enough tax write off?

Hi Miles,

I'm selling The Beast (most likely) or Fritz (not likely) for a couple of reasons.

1. As with anyone, I want money!...

Seriously...I had budgeted for a new tow vehicle in 2006 and I chewed all of it up on The Beast and Fritz just to get The Beast back and me back on the track.

2. The Beast started as a dream and turned to a nightmare for me. Due to things out of my control (although not really since I chose to buy the car originally), I have bad feelings and a huge dose of dissappointment and quite frankly, embarrassment that I ended up with this project being where it is.

I paid for a car in September 2004 to be fully painted and assembled and ready for a drive train by the beginning of the next season (2005). For well documented reasons I lost my main wrench, then tried to get it built by others and still failed. All the while I collected parts and motors and transaxles and watched nothing happen. So I got weak and broke down and bought another car. Started selling stuff and getting some of that money back.

I wish I could get it built and running this season. But I'm now to the point of just wanting to have fun. And Fritz is built right. You have to drive a GT level prepared car to appreciate it. They sure are fun!

Bill P.

Fritz is a hard act to follow. Very nice track car. Even if it is a 911.
Just sell the Beast and be done with it Bill. You will be happier in the long run. Might as well cut your loses now and move on.

If I keep buying parts for my car I am going to have to build another garage to keep it all in since I don't have a car yet to install it on. Soon!!!!

QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jan 6 2006, 02:10 PM)

Hi Miles, You have to drive a GT level prepared car to appreciate it. They sure are fun! Bill P.

The line starts behind me.
I finished my POC racers clinic with a borrowed 911 after my car broke. I'd never driven a 911 and had to immediately race wheel to wheel. I couldn't believe how forgiving they are as long as you don't abruptly lift, which is true in most cars. I finished 4th in my race and have much respect for the tail draggers, though I never admit it to their face.

drivable is better for selling (I have had that experience of trying to sell non-runners, it is tough)

maybe you can put a cheapo engine and drive train in it (stock 1.7) and fetch a far better price than with no engine. if it drives, the price should increase a good deal. used 1.7 running motors are maybe in the $400-$800 range, teh increase in the selling price would I think increase more than that amount, and you'll probably sell it faster.


good luck

If you can find a buyer that knows what it takes to put such a car together, then you'll get alot closer to your investment than most of the guys here (on this club page) would pay. If you can find someone who was going to put together a similar car then you should do better. It all depends on how long you want to wait. If money is all you want then you'd do better to take off all the money parts and sell them separately, as they'll bring more than on the car.

There's a fair percentage of guys who still think you should be able to get a nice clean 2.0 for $2500! AND the economy is still sagging.