Hey everyone!! I am in the market for either a 912 or a 914 and would like some input.. The only experience i've ever had with a 914 was a '73 ITB race car that i only owned about 6 months but i loved the car.. As for the 912's, they seem like alot of fun too but from what i'm gathering the maintenance on them are nightmares. How are the 914's maintenance wise?? Do they make decent runabout daily drivers? I already have an early 1974 911 Carrera with a turbo stuffed in it so i'm not looking to go fast.. Just want a fun little porsche that gets good mileage. Any help would be appreciated, I just dont know which way to go! Thanks!

I own both. Maintenance on the 912 is, if anything, easier than on the 914. Certainly, valve adjustments are 100x easier on the 912, as you're not trying to get your fingers into a small space between the heat exchangers and the rear suspension. It's also much easier to set the ignition timing on a 912.

912s have carbs with no chokes on them, so they're more cantankerous, esp. when starting. Getting at the spark plugs is more difficult than on the 914.

A 912E ('76 only, Type 4, fuel injected) is probably the best of both in terms of maintenance, since the EFI doesn't require regular fettling, starts easier, and you still have good access to the valve covers and the timing. However, the E is also a LOT heavier than the earlier 912.

As for the 914 v 912 argument, well, I'm selling the 912 and keeping the 914, so that's my vote. The 912 makes a better everyday car. It's quieter and more comfortable. If you can only have one car, the 912 is the better choice. But the 914 is a vastly better "sports car". It handles far better, and there are easier paths to a great deal more power than in the 912. You can stuff a Six into either, but the early SWB 912s suffer from bad weight distribution with a Six back there, making the handling worse.

912s generally cost more to buy than a 914. A nice driver 912 is $8K, where equally nice driver 914 is about $5K. Project class 912s are $2-3K, where 914s can be had for $1500 or less. Top of the market show examples are $20K and over for the 912, and $10-12K for the 914. 912Es seem to be more expensive, with asking prices around $10K.

The 912 community is mostly full of old coots only interested in showing them. The 914 community is generally younger, and more interested in going fast.

A stock 914 will generally get better mileage than a stock early 912, at least around town. A 914 with carbs replacing the stock EFI will be no better than a stock 912 in terms of mileage. The 912E is probably about the same as the 914.

For a daily driver/fun car a 914 2.0L with FI is simply a easy car to own.
Gas and oil is all you need.
Valve adjustments every 3000k are a pain ina 914 but after a few times you learn the tricks.

Then you might get the AX bug and its all downhill from there.

QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Jan 7 2006, 08:51 AM)

For a daily driver/fun car a 914 2.0L with FI is simply a easy car to own. Gas and oil is all you need. Valve adjustments every 3000k are a pain ina 914 but after a few times you learn the tricks. Then you might get the AX bug and its all downhill from there.

912 more comfy, but top comes off 914

Sports car, Family car.
Mid-engine, Engine in the wrong place.
Go Kart Handling, kinda go kartish handling of sorts.

not 911 brakes, not 911 brakes

Oh and something about a crank shaft problem and a few other parts that make certain years of the 912 less desirable. But I guess that goes with all cars in a way.

If you have kids get the 912.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jan 7 2006, 08:46 AM)

The 914 community is generally younger, and more interested in going fast.

Yep, just ask Howard.

Wow thanks for all the good input!! Definitely helping me out!! My decision is between a 66 912 that has a rebuilt motor and is actually a great care for the price(4K) or a similarly priced 914. Problem is, I havent found any 914s even close to where i live(Wichita) so driving one to get an idea is out of the question. Is there a huge difference from the 2.0 to the 1.8 and 1.7? The one i had was a 1.8 and it was quite the dog, even for a race car.. I certainly don't expect tons of speed out of the car but i think the one i had was especially slow haha. The more i see the 914s, the more i miss them, this is going to be a hard decision1!!

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Jan 7 2006, 10:17 AM)

not 911 brakes, not 911 brakes

uh... 912's had solid M calipers....
and i believe the 914/411 calipers use the same size pad as a 911 m caliper

1.7L are 80 hp and in the early cars plenty of hp
1.8L are 76 and in a later car slooow
2.0L are 95 hp and fun especially in a early 73 "S" car. (lighter car)

1.7 has 80HP for 70-72, the 73 1.7 (with a california code engine) makes72. I think the 1.8 has 74HP? I am not sure but it is less than the 1.7 (besides the CA code 1.7 that is the lowest power output).

With a set of big bore pistons/cyls you can get the HP/Torque up about 5-10HP.

A 2.0 is quite a big difference 95HP and more torque. I have a 72 1.7 with FI as my daily driver. It is slow, but runs good - at least you never have to slow down for much in these cars. I had a 2.0 in mine but a threaded insert on the spark plug hole failed and went back to the 1.7. BIG difference in power

I actually had a 66 912 that I bought after owning a 72 914 (currently have a 911 and a 75 1.8l 914). The 912 was nice but the 914 was more fun (both had about the same power..neither are blinding fast. I'd say the 914 felt quicker. Thing about the 66 to 68 911/912's is the wheelbase (shorter then 69+). To those that don't worry about keeping it correct..you don't have upgrade choices for many things because of the shorter wheelbase.

Since you already have a 911...the 912 won't seem that different other then slower. I'd go for the 914 so you actually get a really different handling car then what you already own.

Jim

p.s. then you can really have fun when the 911 versus 914 dissing wars go on between the 911 and 914 boards!

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 7 2006, 09:25 AM)

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Jan 7 2006, 10:17 AM) not 911 brakes, not 911 brakes uh... 912's had solid M calipers.... and i believe the 914/411 calipers use the same size pad as a 911 m caliper

Sorry... IIRC should have said non-vented rotors unlike the 911. My bad.

QUOTE (Headrage @ Jan 7 2006, 09:21 AM)

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jan 7 2006, 08:46 AM) The 914 community is generally younger, and more interested in going fast. Yep, just ask Howard.

Allan, bite me. I can't slow down the aging process, but I can drive slower so you can keep up

QUOTE (Turbo74 @ Jan 7 2006, 09:21 AM)

My decision is between a 66 912 that has a rebuilt motor and is actually a great care for the price(4K) Is there a huge difference from the 2.0 to the 1.8 and 1.7? The one i had was a 1.8 and it was quite the dog, even for a race car..

For 4K? If it's nice with a fresh motor, buy it. If you don't like it, Flip it. Sounds like a deal.

I have driven a 1.7 and a Brad Mayuer modified and carb'd 2.0 Day and fricken night!

Both cool cars. Might want to consider parts if it's an early SWB car. Just a few years difference can make a world of difference. 76 912E's are cool.

My vote would be for a teener (based on the poster's comments).

$4K for a 912 in good shape is a deal especially if it is in good shape and has a stock engine.

I like 'em both...but have 2 914s.
I would enjoy having a 912 and a '66 or '67 would be ok. Didn't '68 have a f$cked up smog system that fried heads? Yeah, so I'd probably stay away from 68's unless it had a fresh motor.

Oh, welcome to the club

$4K for a drivable 912 is a great price. Make sure it still has a 616 engine in it (the Bug engine looks quite similar, but makes a LOT less power). The engine type number is on the top of the case, just forward of the crank pulley, and should be 616/xx. Lots of people throw a Type I in the car, and while a big Type I could probably make about as much power as a stock 912 engine, probably more, if you decide to resell it, the price will be a lot lower, and big Type Is have fairly short lifespans. A complete rebuild of a 616 costs about $7-8K, hence the common nature of a Type I swap. A Type 4 swap is also done from time to time into the 616 engined cars, and you can easily get better than stock power and better than stock longevity, but it still hits resale pretty hard.

Parts availability is actually very good even for the earliest SWB cars. The balljoints are a totally different design from the later cars, are hard to get, and quite expensive ($300 EACH). However, they last for 30+ years, so you won't replace them twice. A complete later 911 front end will also just bolt on, so you can get better brakes and the cheaper balljoints. Weather seals, trim, etc. are all readily available.

Another difference between the early cars and the later 911s are a near complete lack of creature comforts. There are no heater blowers in the swb cars, only the engine cooling fan. If complete, the heater actually works very well, but it's pretty bad at demisting the windscreen while idling on a cold morning. Expect the headlights to be quite dim on low beam.

$8K on a 912 rebuild? Is that a recent price? Last I heard they were in the $10K neighborhood, and climing... I also hear that it can be tough to find useable cranks and heads.

If the motor in the 912 is fresh (and the original type!), $4K is a steal!

--DD

A 912 just sounds like a total dog performance wise. For the same money a nice SC or earlier 911 is a much better buy.

A 73-74 914 2.0L is nice because it's a very fun car to drive even when it's 100% stock. The extra power makes a nice difference and it has the factory sway bars which make it handle well. Of course a front sway bar and stiffer springs can easily be added to an earlier car.

QUOTE (Howard @ Jan 7 2006, 09:34 AM)

QUOTE (Headrage @ Jan 7 2006, 09:21 AM) QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jan 7 2006, 08:46 AM) The 914 community is generally younger, and more interested in going fast. Yep, just ask Howard. Allan, bite me. I can't slow down the aging process, but I can drive slower so you can keep up

Yea old bucks....get em Howie....

QUOTE (Dave_Darling @ Jan 7 2006, 01:15 PM)

$8K on a 912 rebuild? Is that a recent price? Last I heard they were in the $10K neighborhood, and climing... I also hear that it can be tough to find useable cranks and heads. If the motor in the 912 is fresh (and the original type!), $4K is a steal! --DD

A local 912 guy just had his engine done by a place in San Rafael for $7K something like 3-4 months ago. It mostly depends on what you need. If you need a new case or a new crank, add lots more. This engine, I believe, only needed new bearings and a top-end.

Thanks for all the input guys! I am in the process of working a deal for a 914, the one that's in the classifieds here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...ST&f=20&t=43295

Can anyone give any input on that car?? It sounds like a decent deal but i'm not sure the benefit of it being a 2.0 punched to 2.2... Hope it still retains reliability!

Also, you have to adjust valves on these cars ever 3,000 miles??

how expensive does that get??

QUOTE (Turbo74 @ Jan 12 2006, 09:47 AM)

Thanks for all the input guys! I am in the process of working a deal for a 914, the one that's in the classifieds here: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...ST&f=20&t=43295 Can anyone give any input on that car?? It sounds like a decent deal but i'm not sure the benefit of it being a 2.0 punched to 2.2... Hope it still retains reliability! Also, you have to adjust valves on these cars ever 3,000 miles?? how expensive does that get??

cost: oil change, filter, and 2 valve cover gaskets.....

20 bucks and eternity if its your first time.......

youll wish you were a mutant the first valve adjust you do.....

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 12 2006, 09:37 AM)

QUOTE (Turbo74 @ Jan 12 2006, 09:47 AM) Thanks for all the input guys! I am in the process of working a deal for a 914, the one that's in the classifieds here: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...ST&f=20&t=43295 Can anyone give any input on that car?? It sounds like a decent deal but i'm not sure the benefit of it being a 2.0 punched to 2.2... Hope it still retains reliability! Also, you have to adjust valves on these cars ever 3,000 miles??  :blink: how expensive does that get??  :headbang: cost: oil change, filter, and 2 valve cover gaskets..... 20 bucks and eternity if its your first time....... youll wish you were a mutant the first valve adjust you do.....

Sounds like i'm in for some fun times..... What are your opinions on that particular car i'm looking at?? I dont really know what to look for on 914's, i've always been more knowledgable on the 911's

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Jan 7 2006, 09:17 AM)

Sports car, Family car. Mid-engine, Engine in the wrong place. Go Kart Handling, kinda go kartish handling of sorts.

The 912 is a family car?

Does the 997 GT3 cup car also have the engine in the wrong place?

Have you driven a 912?


Anyways, I'm a biased 912 and 914 owner. I love both cars. They are totally different. The 912 is a joy to drive. Its really quick, looks amazing, and the 616 motor is a dream to drive above 4500 rpm. It does have a pretty narrow powerband, but its 50s technology. Its a little more of a novelty then a 914 because the technology is soooo ancient, but it shares its components with 911s, so all the go fast stuff for 911s will also work on a 912 (if thats what you're looking for).

With all that said, I'm selling the 912 pretty soon. I made my choice, and I want the newer technology, lower maintenece costs, and the twisted looks of the 914.