Does anyone know if this will work on a 914 without modification?Craigslist ad

doubt it... it picks up the front beam on a VW

That's what I thought.
Thanks

QUOTE (Leo Imperial @ Jan 14 2006, 08:36 PM)

That's what I thought. Thanks

make it work. sure is cheap enough.

I plan on towing to the east coast with a VW bus. Do you think I'm nuts?

Leo,
Here is what I just purchased for $64 brand new from Bugformance in Sunnyvale ca.

Supposed to be used to tow a superbeetle.

I am fabbing two brackets to attach to the front torsion bar mounts (3 bolts into reinforced mounting area)

here is a pic.

attachment point detail

QUOTE (Leo Imperial @ Jan 14 2006, 07:49 PM)

I plan on towing my precious 914 to the west coast classic in Portland Oregon with a flimsy VW bus. Do you think I'm nuts?

Yep...

About $25.00 on eBay:

Another pic.

QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Jan 14 2006, 07:50 PM)

Leo, Here is what I just purchased for $64 brand new from Bugformance in Sunnyvale ca. Supposed to be used to tow a superbeetle. I am fabbing two brackets to attach to the front torsion bar mounts (3 bolts into reinforced mounting area) here is a pic.

Wow, $64 for a tow bar AND Konis!

good luck

QUOTE (Hybrid_Teener @ Jan 14 2006, 11:12 PM)

QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Jan 14 2006, 07:50 PM) Leo, Here is what I just purchased for $64 brand new from Bugformance in Sunnyvale ca. Supposed to be used to tow a superbeetle. I am fabbing two brackets to attach to the front torsion bar mounts (3 bolts into reinforced mounting area) here is a pic. Wow, $64 for a tow bar AND Konis! good luck

I wish.
I had considered that type of tow bar but I wanted the bar to attach under the car instead of to the front bulkhead.
Reinforcements are already there. Just need to fab the brackets to attach to the front of the torsion bar points. Total weight for attachment brackets will be under 2 pounds.

If you are using the front torsion bar mounting area (like slipping a plate betweeen the torsion bar mount the A-arm mount) Does that change something in geomertry? Like dive under braking?

Unlike this picture, I will be attaching my base plate under the bolts only. The actual mounting of the torsion bar will be in the exact position it was previously.

Thanks for the pictures Dan.
I think your way is a really good option.
Want to make me a set?

Talk to David Lee, he has an ad in the resources section about towing eyes. The base plate I am using started out like the red one you see with out the verticle tow eye portion. To that I am welding on two tabs per side to attach to the tow bar.

The tow bar project is on my list of things to do in upcoming weeks. I have a DrawTite brand tow bar that is adjustable (like the $25 Ebay one in a post above but higher quality) that I will start with first. I am not particulary thrilled with the quality of the Super Beetle bar. We need bars that can also handle the weight of a 914 with a V8. My cars both have 350s now.

At the moment, a friend has me working on 944 race eyes and I just finished spec Miata tow eyes. I also have a few other easy projects to burn through before going down the tow bar road. (Sorry, I used the M word when this should be all about Porsches.)

I asked for a few details from Brad on the bar that he was selling in the classifieds and got nothing, so I will venture out on my own. It looks like there is significant interest in a solution. Espcially with the WCC coming up. The secret is to make a bracket that works with the stock front valance and with spoilers (without removal). It also has to be very low profile so as not to detract from the 914 looks or reduce ground clearance by much. I would also like to be able to pull two pins, remove the safety chains and go.

Any reasonable suggestions would be welcomed. David Lee

I agree about the super beetle bar. When I have the tabs welded to the base plates I am also going to do some reinforcements to the tow bar itself.
My car is a 2.0L race car, so weight will actually be pretty similar to a super beetle, if not a bit less.

thanks again to David.

The base plates are very nice.

I have the LE front spoiler on my 914 and the inner bolt to the suspension is a bit ower than it thus a longish plate bolted to suspension point protruding forward past the spoiler with properly oriented mounting points for a low cost hitch bar would be great!

Towing across country with Bus? I hope you have a nice strong engine...you are going to be over working it. The other consideration is the weight of the Bus is not enough to safely tow a 914 in my opinion. You don't want the tail to wag the dog. You could take as much weight as possible from the 914 and put it in the Bus...engine transaxle etc...might help. You can make a bracket/adapter that will allow the use of a VW tow bar. There is one in this album at the bottom of the page:

http://allshops.org/cgi-bin/community/comm...d=9980160442904

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

I think Dan's idea to modify one id David's plates is an excellent one and using the super beeetle tow baw also good - priovided the SB tow bar is reinforced.

In order to come straight out from under the 914 and keep the tow bar horizontal - I drew this image. Pink being the modification needed to the SB tow bar - with a plate from David that protrudes out the front of the 914 but just under the LE front spoiler?

** change idea - have David's plate remain under car - and not protrude froward past the front of the le spoiler for looks sake. Instead further modify the tow bar to have the protrusion to reacvh back to David's plate bolted to the suspension point. Maybe a thicker plate that has threaded holes for the tow bar to be bolted thru to.

Jim Kelly

Here's a (poor) picture of my tow bar attachment. It's made out of flat bar (approx 2"x1/2") and attached to the floor pan with (11) bolts/nuts. It's very sturdy. It was on the car & I didn't take it off because of protection going over bumps. The car's in storage so I can't get dimensions till spring.

Hope this gives you an idea for another choice.

Tom

Jim, I worked a bit on the design last night and it is tricky to have reasonable ground clearance and a stock valance. Maybe all tow bar users should just go with spoilers? I have modified my plates to pick up all three front suspension bolts, there is a joining bar from plate to plate and then an attachment for the tow bar. I am going to cut a short run on the plasma table and then mock a few versions up this weekend. When I get closer, I will pull in an engineering buddy to run the loads. I don't want anyone to lose there pride and joy. Getting closer. DLee

So having an LE front spoiler on my car gives me an advantage - great.

Using all three mounting points is good and connecting the plates to each other should also add strength - great.

Jim

Jim Kelly

Thanks for the PM. My camera is broken and my car is in storage so I am not able to get more info. I believe you are on the right track with a fabricated piece.

I found this front end picture of my tow bar attachment. It shows location (attachment) points below the stock front valance. It really works good and has taken many scraps protecting the front over driveway inclines. Don't need to call AAA if the car breaks down. Call anyone with a tow hitch.

Tom

All right......I have a working prototype using the SB bar (with some stiffening and rewelding of the tabs). I modified my tow eye plates to pick up all three captured nuts on each side of the front torsion bar mount. They are pretty stout, but still low profile.

Right now I am looking at building a jig to weld up production units. If anyone has a parts car that they are willing to cut the front torsion bar mounts out of with about a 6" wide strip of metal to hold them together, I would be very grateful. I only have one spare car in my storage and it is destined to go back together. I need this to get the angles right. If not available, I will have to make a jig from scratch. This would take me a bit more time.

Help me have these ready before WCC....06.
David Lee

David I sent you a PM.
I got a sb towbar and want to use your plates.
Not sure if it is possible. The time frame is tight.

I ran a few laps with a 914 V8 connected behind my Expedition and all is well. I will run my design by one of our house engineers in the morning. My first prototype utilizes 1/4 steel and I will go to 3/8 for added stiffening. I also need to move the pin tabs about 1" higher to add additional ground clearance.

NOW THE MAGIC QUESTION......WHAT ARE THESE GUYS WORTH? WHAT WOULD OWNERS FEEL COMFORTABLE PAYING FOR A BOLT ON BRACKET THAT ALLOWS YOU TO USE THE COMMON SUPER BEETLE $60 TOW BAR WITH A 914 WITHOUT ANY MODIFICATION? THIS ADAPTER IS TOTALLY REVERSABLE (DOES NOT HARM THE CAR). THE ADAPTER CAN BE MOUNTED IN ABOUT 10 - 15 MINUTES AND CAN STAY ON THE CAR. YOU THEN ONLY HAVE TO PULL TWO PINS AND ATTACH SAFETY CHAINS.

SO GUYS.....WHAT IS IT WORTH?

$100 and please send it now!
I know you want to test it first.
Are they going to mount between the body and the a-arm?

david,

have you determined that the sb tow bar is strong enough in stock form or do you need to stiffen it - in which case you would have to ship the tow bar and the tab assy to customers?

Look forward to a pic of the final product - it is one piece?

Jim

Yea David,
Let's see what you got. I have been waiting for my car to come back from the paint shop to fab up my tow bar attachments. If you have come up with something that can be sent out soon, I might consider using that instead of fabbing up my own.
How about a sneak preview since this was my idea to use your baseplates?
how about a trade in for some blank baseplates?

Thanks

QUOTE (dlee1967 @ Jan 22 2006, 08:00 PM)

I ran a few laps with a 914 V8 connected behind my Expedition and all is well. I will run my design by one of our house engineers in the morning. My first prototype utilizes 1/4 steel and I will go to 3/8 for added stiffening. I also need to move the pin tabs about 1" higher to add additional ground clearance. NOW THE MAGIC QUESTION......WHAT ARE THESE GUYS WORTH? WHAT WOULD OWNERS FEEL COMFORTABLE PAYING FOR A BOLT ON BRACKET THAT ALLOWS YOU TO USE THE COMMON SUPER BEETLE $60 TOW BAR WITH A 914 WITHOUT ANY MODIFICATION? THIS ADAPTER IS TOTALLY REVERSABLE (DOES NOT HARM THE CAR). THE ADAPTER CAN BE MOUNTED IN ABOUT 10 - 15 MINUTES AND CAN STAY ON THE CAR. YOU THEN ONLY HAVE TO PULL TWO PINS AND ATTACH SAFETY CHAINS. SO GUYS.....WHAT IS IT WORTH?

I've got $50-100 just waiting for ya. Thanks for the effort! You're going to help me get a 914 to WCC '06

If its just brackets? And they are bolt on...

If its something that the avid at home builder like myself and the rest of the 914 guys are...

I'd say 40-60 bucks. That would give the buyer a tow system for under $150 bolt in.

show us pictures... I'll tell you what i'd pay if I had a picture.

But if you would have built it for the other mount.. that would have been better.

But lets see what you got!

I'll be using it (maybe...) to get to the wcc as well!

Here are a few pics of the design and mock up. REMEMBER>>>>>>this is only a mock up using 1/4" steel and is not strong enough for production versions. If you decide to knock it off, make sure you have engineering to back up your work!

The final versions will be in 3/8" plate and will include hardware. All you would have to do is buy a SB tow bar locally. (this really saves on shipping expense)

The bar is a direct bolt on to the OUTSIDE of the torsion bar front attachment and also picks up the third bolt for the protective cab. The SB is strong enough to handle even a V8 914. (just don't back up with it!)

Still batting around the price and will finalize that after running my first batch of plate. At least it is a one piece affair. I will also include new hardware as the front bolts will not be long enough if you attempt to use them.

Feedback?

Please don't rush me on this one. We are still weeks (not months) away as I need to get me pieces plazma cut and complete my welding fixtures. WCC is doable. Next week is not.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

another

last

Looks good - exactly what I was looking for.

As for pricing - you sell the eye hook plates for $45 a pair so I could see $75-90 for the larger assy plus slightly more than actual cost for all the hardware - just my 2 cents.

Jim

--

Couple of pic's of how I id mine. I tied into the original bumper shock mounting points.

Andys

David,
That looks great. Exactly what I had envisioned for mine.

I believe the actual attachment points can be raised quite a bit.

I was even thinking about notching the base plate so the SB bar could sit up even higher at the attachment point. That way you would get much more ground clearance.
That would also make most of the force being put on the base plates a shear force rather than a torquing force. If you get what I mean.

that is very robust but intrusive?

David has found a good compromise between total strength and a permanent installation!

This way anyone with a tow ball can get me to safety : )

Jim

Dan, I am going to get the bar attachment point as high as possible for ground clearance and as close to the mounting plate as possible to remove the moment. While it is preferred to come out and up with an extended arm, this multiplies the force on the baseplate. It also looks ugly. We want low profile.

I'm jammed up for the next two nights with family and work projects, so the revised ears will have to wait until Wednesday night.

I am trying to load a photoshopped image with some graphics on it. but I can't get the system to allow me to upload...any suggestions?

Id pay 75-100 for it, pure bolt in.

does this make sense?

Dan, the yellow line is where the new tabs will reside. I have some concern about strength with the notch idea. It also means a lot more welding on my part. I think we can get there with just shorter tabs. We have to consider not only those with "special edition" spoilers as I have shown in my picture, but also other shallow spoilers. As it is currently built, the stock front valance will have to be notched for the tabs. Not somethiing that everyone will want to do. DLee

wrote this while the above post "arrived". edits look good

David, can the two piece's the pin attaches to reach more forward and up? Perhaps instead of a straight pc angling down, you add a bend to it to raise it an inch.

I like the look of your current tow eyes, would adding a second eye to each of those allow one to simply attach their TB with the pins? Definitely would be tough for those with the stock valence (me), but possible for the GT valence shown?

Suggestion, for further ground clearance can the SB bar be flipped over? (I don't recall what the Hitch end of that looks like, whether that can be removed or not).

Thanks for looking into this. This is exactly what I was wanted last summer but time forces a work around. I'll watch to see your final product.

Andrew......so you found some more change in your couch eh?

David,
I was pretty sure that the notch would add a lot more welding and fab for you, just an idea.
If the tabs could be shorter and more vertical, or more horizontal, might also help.
Actually, now that I think about it, with an LE spoiler the tabs would probably be mounted almost horizontally, extending forward. Giving more ground clearance as well as more shear strength.
I know this is a quick mule, but the tabs having rounded edges would also help with getting caught on stuff.
Looking very good. Keep up the good work.
You may get this up and flying before I even get my car back to try my own fabbing.
Still might have some bare baseplates for a trade in.

Matt, you can't flip the SB tow bar over. It is already offset to allow for a low car and a high ball. If I could build my own bar with more of an offset it would be preferred, but I don't want to turn this into too big of a project. I also don't want to have to hassle with shipping full bars.

The idea of moviing the attachment points up and a bit out is what I will do on my next version. You can't go too far out without more reinforcement. More reinforcement will make it more obvious to those looking at your car. We are looking for stealth as well as function.

I am not sure what you are asking about the pins? This is designed so you only have to pull the two pins to remove the bar. (also remove safety chains). DLee

Dan, I've noticed your two references about trading in the base plates........I don't negotiate until I have something to barter with...... DLee