so, i put the threaded collars on my bilstein shocks today and i made a few observations.

can anybody please confirm/deny any of this:

- collars seem to be "tapered" inside, the bottom part has only a small amount of play while the top moves at least 1mm side to side

- the bottom of the collar DOES have some small amount of play. this concerns me as the "ring" it sits on is tiny and has to support the whole weight of the car.
is this normal ???

Andy

pic might help ...

at the top (#1) about 1mm side to side, at the bottom (#2) a small amount of play ...

should i worry? i remember that grant had a threaded collar jump over the retainer ring!
Andy

werd... mine are kinda loose too...

but the original lower perch used the same ring.....


damn... scary.

AA

The threaded part slides over the shock, so there has to be some room for it to move or you wouldn't be able to slide it over. Shock bodies are not a guaranteed machined true cylinder, after all. The bottom of the collar (actually a point near the bottom) rests on the ring around the shock, yes? So it would have less movement.

The phenomenon sounds normal. I would guess (SWAG!) that the amount of play is also normal, but I am not at all sure on that.

--DD

The Bilstein spring perches have an indent on the bottom of them. Once the perch is pressed against the ring, it becomes impossible for the ring to expand and come out of the groove in the shock. The threaded collar doesn't seem to have this indent... That is is what would worry me the most, especially with the play that could allow the threaded collar to move back and forth and eventually work the ring out of its groove.

Pic:

QUOTE (bondo @ Jan 22 2006, 09:11 PM)

The threaded collar doesn't seem to have this indent...

mine do. there's an indent of about 1/2" deep, then a sharp "edge". this edge is what sits on the retainer ring and this *should* prevent the ring from expanding and working it's way out of the groove ...

but, my real concern is the fact that the bottom of the collar is not at all a tight fit on the shock. there still is some side/side movement at the bottom right where it sits on the retainer ring.

the original bilstein bottom perch is a real snugg fit, in fact, i had to use a hammer to get it off the shock.

on the other hand, the new threaded collars move freely over the shock and rotate freely as well. the bottom play is "feelable" but less than 1mm side/side.

i am worried that the whole collar will jump over the retainer ring and the shock will fall down 8" while i'm driving!
Andy

Yes, the OD of the shock is smaller that the ID of the collar.
As I recall, the 1 mm is about right, but closer to .060. It seems less below as the keeper ring is a better fit. If you don't shim the collar/body interface it may get screwed up from going off center and working by the keeper. I used plastic shim stock cut to wrap around the shock body....full length, keeper to top of collar.
One layer of .020 & another of .010....but it may have been .005. A pair of calipers is your friend here.

I'm more surprised that you didn't complain about how the spring hat fits. I had to do some serious rework to make the top fit properly. These are from Colman.

A pic of mine

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jan 22 2006, 10:27 PM)

Im more surprised that you didn't complain about how the spring hat fits.

and my shock rods are different than JP's..... still not optimal

As you mentioned I have slid a collar over my rear Koni's. In researching, the company in question mistakenly sent wrong collar diameter (they actually picked wrong part into a bag with differnt part number). It was close enough to get by an expert 914 guy who installed them on my car. I would reccomend taking inside diameter measurements and calling them to confirm you have correct diameter if you want to be extra safe.

The wrong diameter on my Koni's allowed similar play you are talking about. The correct collars they supplied fit much better with very little free play at the bottom with some at the top.

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jan 22 2006, 09:27 PM)

I'm more surprised that you didn't complain about how the spring hat fits. I had to do some serious rework to make the top fit properly.

see my "other" thread ...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...2&t=44700&st=40

i didn't bitch about the top hat here because that was just annoying, but not critical to my survival ...

so, by "shiming" the shock, don't you effectively reduce the surface area between the collar "edge" and the retainer ring?
i mean, you prevent the collar from moving side/side, but it still does not have the full seating area it *could* have compared to the stock bilstein perches ...

Andy

I have colman coil spring perches. I flipped mine over and had then machined to the size if the indent on the orginal perch, then I put a shim on the top. Remember at load the assembly will not move. I am planning to put a thursh bearings and washers assembly to aid in the the turning of the nut.

Mar7ck

That is true, but the overlap is the same all around, rather than being offset to one side and risk getting it cocked in the bore......but hay, as one stubborn German to another, do what you want.
I haven't had any problems with it as is and am running stiffer springs that you presently have.......tho you'll get there eventually.

Hmm, you could always cut the center out of the stock bilstein perches and set the threaded collar down on that.

QUOTE (Mar7ck @ Jan 22 2006, 09:49 PM)

then I put a shim on the top

hmmm, a "shim" that fits snug on the shock and is thick enough to fit tight inside the indent in the collar.
slide it on the shock until it sits on top of the retainer ring.

that way, nothing could ever move anywhere ...
Andy

QUOTE (bondo @ Jan 22 2006, 09:53 PM)

Hmm, you could always cut the center out of the stock bilstein perches and set the threaded collar down on that.

exactly. turn it down so it fits inside the indent in the collars. collars slides over old perch center which sits schnugg on the ring. voila!

Andy

Same situation here. I was anticipating tighter tolerances between shock tube and collar. It worried me a bit, but (knock on wood) now I've done quite a few track events and hard driving with no issues. So I guess it is normal but sure is disconcerting to the newbie installer. I have used two different top hats, both from Coleman, one cast and one machined billet and both versions fit fine.

yup, I like the flip them over idea....

Time to visit your favorite machinist....

bring some hair stuff and a baby gift.

Rich

QUOTE (r_towle @ Jan 22 2006, 10:58 PM)

yup, I like the flip them over idea.... Time to visit your favorite machinist.... bring some hair stuff and a baby gift. Rich

QUOTE (bondo @ Jan 22 2006, 11:00 PM)

QUOTE (r_towle @ Jan 22 2006, 10:58 PM) yup, I like the flip them over idea.... Time to visit your favorite machinist.... bring some hair stuff and a baby gift. Rich

took me a second to get it....

thats FUNNY

Andy,

Buy 2 of these:

http://www.colemanracing.com/catalog/produ...roducts_id=1457

Ken

QUOTE (r_towle @ Jan 22 2006, 09:58 PM)

bring some hair stuff and a baby gift.

Don't you mean two baby gifts?

And maybe a "get outta jail free" card?

--DD

QUOTE (KenH @ Jan 22 2006, 11:35 PM)

Andy, Buy 2 of these: http://www.colemanracing.com/catalog/produ...roducts_id=1457 Ken

wish i had a picture of what they were trying to sell....

As described in the add.

It is a Solid Ring that fits on top of the "clip" thats on the shock.

Provides a larger OD and support for the coil over sleeve.

Ken

QUOTE (KenH @ Jan 23 2006, 10:05 AM)

As described in the add. It is a Solid Ring that fits on top of the "clip" thats on the shock. Provides a larger OD and support for the coil over sleeve. Ken

sounds like the hot tip....

thanks ken

Andy,
I have the same ones (from Ground Control). They have been tracked for over a year now with no problems.

Andy

QUOTE (KenH @ Jan 22 2006, 11:35 PM)

Andy, Buy 2 of these: http://www.colemanracing.com/catalog/produ...roducts_id=1457 Ken

i just ordered 2 adapter rings.....


ill post when i get them and install them.....

They also work with the Koni's.

Ken

QUOTE (KenH @ Feb 19 2006, 02:04 PM)

They also work with the Koni's. Ken

you currently have these installed?

Yes,

Ken