I wanted to say thanks to all who helped me along figuring out the inner workings of the 914. I would have been in deep crap without the "search" option. Thanks
The car is mechanically almost all worked out. I can get in it and just drive it like most any car now, except the fact it will accelerate a bit faster than most. The cooling is working perfect, it just won't run over 200 degrees on any day even in the 100s. The car now handles very well and is real stable on the road. I had a 93 (RD generation) Mazda Rx7 and its not quite at its handling but it may be with some sway-bars. Its drives so good my wife and I went for a drive last weekend and she liked it!!! Shocking
I have around 400 hp connected to a 930 4 speed and the car just flies. The brakes are 911 and work awesome! Its a lot of work nailing down the small details to make everything work correctly but when it does it puts a smile on your face.

Engine
350 cid, Edelbrock EFI

930 Transmission pic

Seats, interior stuff,

Radiator, fans and fuel pump

Brake shot

Trabuco Cyn Rd. was beautiful yesterday!

dude!!!

got a progress thread on the 930 tranny setup???

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Jan 23 2006, 11:09 PM)

dude!!! got a progress thread on the 930 tranny setup???

VERY nice

Holy sheet! I like it!

How do you like your cable shifting setup?
Did you get it through Renegades?

I'm still trying to figure out if I'd like to install one on my 914/8, 915 combo.
Nice looking car, happy to hear you're enjoying it!

I have cable shift on my 930 as well and I like it very much. It takes a little getting used to as there is very little feed-back until the gear engages, but overall very nice.

The 930 trans is a different breed, not like your Toyota. I am just getting it broken in. It's a renegade conversion unit along with renegades cable shifter. I would like it to work a bit better because its really a direct connect deal. You must get accustom to how it wants you to shift it. The trans is a limited slip as well and it just grabs like crazy. Its hard to spin the tires, at least for me. Grip and go. I still haven't set up my throttle cable to get a full pull. I get about 60% and thats a load. I had the hardest time getting a hydraulic clutch set up and had a bad pressure plate. Get this the KEP stage 2 plate was missing its internal pivots. It was just so strange feeling and hard as heck to depress (still is a bear). KEP stepped up and repaired the plate for free, a great bunch of guys there. In the mean time I destroyed my Renegade kevlar clutch disk and Scott at Renegade replaced it free as well. These guys are the best! I haven't put Swepco 201 in the trans and I was told it would work better using it. I have some coming this week. Just can't get that stuff a the local parts house.

I should be getting my 930 box any day now. It's flipped, LSD, freshly redone at CA Motorsports. I am wondering how all you 930 gearbox people are actuating the clutch? Mechanically or with a custom hydraulic slave cylinder? I'm thinking about actuating it mechanically like my old 915 set-up. It got a bit stiff but I can live with it I guess. I suppose the hydraulic fans are touting the easier pedal "feel"...am I right? As far as shift linkages. Are there any people out there who have actually figured out how to create a hard linkage and achieve excellent results? I'm hearing more and more good things about Renegade's cable shift system. They use newer & better (thicker) cables, etc. The feel is much improved over what was available 5-6 years ago (from what I hear). Randy Beck (RPM in Upland,CA) developed a very simple hard linkage on a 914 racecar running a 930 box. I shifted the car myself and it was great! We tried to duplicate it on my car...but I'm afraid I cannot get the rear shift tube around the drivetrain without bending it a bit more than his set-up. This creates flex and other problems contributing to a very crappy feel. I'll make the rear shift tube out of chrome moly thereby eliminating some flex and unwanted movement. I have had limited success with my hard linkage set-up and if I cannot improve it dramatically, I'll be calling up Renegade real soon...and popping out $800. Any ideas out there?

Thanks for any help,

Bill

Hey bill... what are you doing with your old setup?

just curious...

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Jan 25 2006, 12:19 AM)

Hey bill... what are you doing with your old setup? just curious...

He had his 915 on eBay awhile back, ~$3500 or so...

ok. Thnks

I sold my refreshed 915 to a guy in Illinois and my aluminum pressure plate to some other guy off Ebay. Sorry to say the 915 stuff is history. I would like to get as many resonses possible regarding personal experiences running the 930 set up.

The one in the above threads looks like it was done by CA Motorsports (Lake Havasu City, AZ). They do all the 930 machine work for Renegade Hybrids. That's a good thing because Bobby Hart is one of the best with Porsche transaxles. Looks like a real nice setup. Did you also use the Renegade trans mount or did you fabricate that piece? Nice work!

Bill

My 930 came from Bobby too. I'm using a mechanical clutch with a spring assist that adds a little "up and over" feel. Yes it is stiff as hell with the Kennedy II but it works very well (so far). FYI any good boat shop can make you custom cables in any thickness you desire cheaper than Renegade. THICKER IS BETTER!! andrew I may be offering my 915 again. This project has me doubting whether I'll be starting another one any time soon. After going through the process with the 930 my price has gone up a bit though. The rp flip and base case cost knocked me for an unexpected loop.

That picture was before the addition of the assist spring. I'll take a picture of that tonight and post tommorrow.

Hi Mike P,

Thanks for th input and pic. I like how you hooked up your clutch arm on the driver's side and pull it with a cable (stock 911 I bet). That is exactly how I actuated my 915 and I don't see a problem doing it again. Did you fabricate your cable shift system and if so...please expound alittle for me. And more pics would be awesome...Thankyou.

Bill

spring assist linkage

spring

I was originally going to go Hydraulic but this setup was the product of discussions with Chris at Bauer P Repair in Oakland. He did the fab on the cable and spring set-up after we disected my old 915 setup which was a Jaide system using pulleys and a passenger side lever. If you want to go this rout I'll get the car in the air again and give you some detailed fab pictures and I can dig up the part numbers etc. It is all 911 stuff.

let's see if I can figure out how to attach some images... new to this forum.

I have a boxter cable shifter in my 914 V8/flipped 930 car. I bought 5/16" cables from McMaster-Carr. Paid $150 for the shifter and around $200 give or take for the cables. Some rod ends, and custom linkage pieces I made myself, and the shifting is SWEET. Probably say $500 in the deal for scrap metal and fittings. Notchy as hell, but that is how 930s are. But absolutely no vague feel. If I want 3rd, I can select and slam it in 3rd no question/worry. Also, by using studs, rod ends and spacers where the cables attach, if I want a tighter pattern, I just machine some new spacers to tighten it up.

You will see that I have a piece that is attached to the arm to move that cable forward. Upon installation, I intended to use the arm only (orange piece), but when I shifted to 2nd, the cables would intersect each other before I could engage the gear, so I added a spacer (silver) and another piece (yellow) to space that cable forward to circumvent that issue.

Looks hooptie, but works way better than any Renegade garb I have felt. As I do this tube car, I will weld the spacer and yellow adapter piece to make the ear one piece (just bolted right now, but that is fine of course, just not "clean")

You will need access to a lathe though and a plasma cutter makes cutting strap easier. I have a friend that I abuse

Some not so great, but maybe helpful shots exist on my website

http://www.geocities.com/byndbad914

May help to show how I used 3 rod ends and some 1/2" steel round to more or less bell crank the shifting to put the H-pattern the correct way (not upside down like a lot of mechanical linkages have).

All the brackets welded to my custom trans mounts and frankly, that fab work is really easy if you have even a modicum of fabrication skill. I am an engineer which means "stupid from the elbows down", so can't be that bad

how the fro do you add a freakin' image on this forum???

QUOTE

byndbad914 Posted on Jan 26 2006, 08:31 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- how the fro do you add a freakin' image on this forum???

You have pm explainig how.



Drive-ability, that sure is a nice car.

try this again... last time I browsed the image, couldn't preview it. so I just attached and hit reply and it didn't work. We'll try it one more time...

Looks a lot like mine.

sorry to hijack the thread, but hopefully this is of some help to others out there thinking of fabbing their own linkage..

The tan piece is simply lathed from steel. On the bottom side (not shown) I have two holes
1.) an 8mm tapped hole back at the taper that the original Porsche taper pin screws into to secure the tan piece to the trans shifting shaft.
2.) The slot in the red piece is so the front-back adapter can slip on the tan piece. A 5/16" stud protrudes through that slot and screws into the tan piece.

Ultimately there are two cables coming off of the stock boxter/late model anything cable shift tower. The front to back cable is bolted through the series of rod ends (to reverse the input direction) to the yellow extension. The front to back shifting is transferred to the transmission through shear in the stud through the slot feature.

The second cable is attached with a rod end to the stud out of the tan piece. That controls side to side motion for selecting the H pattern (Rev-1-3). Therefore all input to the trans is through that one stud via direct input (H) and shear (back/forth).

I don't sprechen zie deutch too well, so I used 5/16" US threads 'cause the cables and components are easier to find than a metric equivalent.

Lastly, the hole out at the end of the orange piece fits over a 1/2" bolt shank that I screwed into my mount features. It add support to hold the red/orange assembly (which would otherwise be free to rotate). Notice it rides on the shank (smooth) part of the bolt not the threads. First cut was to try some all-thread I had laying around the garage and as expected, it chattered and caught here and there.

Again, check the site for some pics. I will be updating my site over the next couple months while I do the tube car and will get some better shots of this stuff during that timeframe. Sounds hooptie, but works really well, I promise.

Mike,

Is your H pattern standard, or upside down?

If it is standard, then the "reversal" of input motion must be in your shift tower, and maybe that is where the vagueness is derived. seems like the Renegade one I felt in another car was correct orientation, but it seemed vague to me.

Or is yours pretty precise? If so, who's kit is that? YOu might have said earlier, but just in case...

Check the 915 thread, I've been bouncing back and forth.

QUOTE (byndbad914 @ Jan 27 2006, 01:46 PM)

sorry to hijack the thread, but hopefully this is of some help to others out there thinking of fabbing their own linkage.. The tan piece is simply lathed from steel.  On the bottom side (not shown) I have two holes 1.) an 8mm tapped hole back at the taper that the original Porsche taper pin screws into to secure the tan piece to the trans shifting shaft. 2.) The slot in the red piece is so the front-back adapter can slip on the tan piece.  A 5/16" stud protrudes through that slot and screws into the tan piece. Ultimately there are two cables coming off of the stock boxter/late model anything cable shift tower.  The front to back cable is bolted through the series of rod ends (to reverse the input direction) to the yellow extension.  The front to back shifting is transferred to the transmission through shear in the stud through the slot feature. The second cable is attached with a rod end to the stud out of the tan piece.  That controls side to side motion for selecting the H pattern (Rev-1-3).  Therefore all input to the trans is through that one stud via direct input (H) and shear (back/forth). I don't sprechen zie deutch too well, so I used 5/16" US threads 'cause the cables and components are easier to find than a metric equivalent. Lastly, the hole out at the end of the orange piece fits over a 1/2" bolt shank that I screwed into my mount features.  It add support to hold the red/orange assembly (which would otherwise be free to rotate).  Notice it rides on the shank (smooth) part of the bolt not the threads.  First cut was to try some all-thread I had laying around the garage and as expected, it chattered and caught here and there. Again, check the site for some pics.  I will be updating my site over the next couple months while I do the tube car and will get some better shots of this stuff during that timeframe.  Sounds hooptie, but works really well, I promise.

I am glad you chimed in! Honestly I am not real happy with how my trans shifts. I know the heavy nature of a 930 but I have trouble finding gears and or the linkage becoming almost stiff. From one day to the next its never the same. I really think its the Renegade linkages, I think there should be something in the rear to cover the cable movement when its shifting from front to back (1st to 2nd and 3rd to 4th). There is a distance traveled and that isn't tuned into the system. That movement pulls on the other cable and may be the problem. Your linkages have that covered well. Any thoughts?

sorry for the late response...spent the weekend disassembling the car at the chassis shop! Can't wait... they start cutting this week.

Anyway, my thoughts are this...

The 930 is notchy no matter what, just the nature of the beast. Not to be confused with vague of course... they are definitely not vague, but still a bitch to shift fast 2-3 or 3-2.

The bigger differences between mine and the Renegade (from what I can tell in pix and I felt a couple years ago) are these:

1. I bring the R-1-3 "H" selecting cable in completely perpendicular to the shaft in the trans. When shifting 1-2 or 3-4, the cable end still has to move side to side, but there is no "push or pull" on the cable that you would have from coming in at an angle (looking at MikeP's post, it appears that cable comes in at a bit of an angle from the bracket).

Any angularity will begin adding push or pull (depending on whether going from 1-2 or 2-1). The more of this push/pull effect you have, the vaguer (is that a word - I conjugate my own from time to time) the shifting will be.

2. There is no adjustability for pattern, it is direct to the shaft. A little offset by using the studs and the "rod end reversal" like I did makes it nice to tune the pattern to what you like to "feel". No offset is just a super tight pattern on the "H", but the fore/aft stuff is 1:1 which I would think would be kind of a long throw. If they used a short shifting handle to make this tighter, the H would tighten up as well. Long throw with a tight H would feel vague to me too since it makes it hard to tell whether you selected 3rd in the H or if you are going for 1st. You gotta have some H pattern...

long description.. short review: I can adjust the H by moving the cable up and down the stud - closer to the shift rod is tighter, spaced away is a bigger H. Fore and aft, if I shorten the linkage between the cable and the swivel rod end, tighter fore/aft (and more effort is required). Right now I am definitely NOT 1:1, but much tighter fore/aft, but do have some offset to broaden the H up so I can tell where 3rd v. 1st is.

3. None of their inputs are in the exact direction of motion... the fore and aft selection is angled from the bracket - mine is truly parallel to the input shaft. Their's will induce some side to side motion in your fore/aft selection = vague feeling. Again, the H isn't perpendicular, so vague. Even the slightest pulls "on paper" are really quite noticeable in reality.

Classic engineering example I deal with every day here at work... "the side to side push/pull is only .030", so no big deal" to which I respond "multiplied by a 4" shift handle input = .120", basically 1/8". You wouldn't feel the .030" at the trans, but you definitely feel the 1/8" in your right hand ."

Drive-ability, you are in OC and my car is being worked on in Orange near the circle off Chapman. I have the engine and trans out of the car sitting behind it right now. I will be there next Saturday afternoon to remove the interior while they cut out the floorpan... let me know if you would like to swing by and see the stuff personally. Maybe it will help you out.

QUOTE (byndbad914 @ Jan 30 2006, 02:13 PM)

sorry for the late response...spent the weekend disassembling the car at the chassis shop!     Can't wait... they start cutting this week. Anyway, my thoughts are this... The 930 is notchy no matter what, just the nature of the beast.  Not to be confused with vague of course... they are definitely not vague, but still a bitch to shift fast 2-3 or 3-2. The bigger differences between mine and the Renegade (from what I can tell in pix and I felt a couple years ago) are these: 1.  I bring the R-1-3 "H" selecting cable in completely perpendicular to the shaft in the trans.  When shifting 1-2 or 3-4, the cable end still has to move side to side, but there is no "push or pull" on the cable that you would have from coming in at an angle (looking at MikeP's post, it appears that cable comes in at a bit of an angle from the bracket). Any angularity will begin adding push or pull (depending on whether going from 1-2 or 2-1).  The more of this push/pull effect you have, the vaguer (is that a word  :confused: - I conjugate my own from time to time) the shifting will be. 2.  There is no adjustability for pattern, it is direct to the shaft.  A little offset by using the studs and the "rod end reversal" like I did makes it nice to tune the pattern to what you like to "feel".  No offset is just a super tight pattern on the "H", but the fore/aft stuff is 1:1 which I would think would be kind of a long throw.  If they used a short shifting handle to make this tighter, the H would tighten up as well.  Long throw with a tight H would feel vague to me too since it makes it hard to tell whether you selected 3rd in the H or if you are going for 1st.  You gotta have some H pattern... long description.. short review:  I can adjust the H by moving the cable up and down the stud - closer to the shift rod is tighter, spaced away is a bigger H.   Fore and aft, if I shorten the linkage between the cable and the swivel rod end, tighter fore/aft (and more effort is required).  Right now I am definitely NOT 1:1, but much tighter fore/aft, but do have some offset to broaden the H up so I can tell where 3rd v. 1st is. 3.  None of their inputs are in the exact direction of motion... the fore and aft selection is angled from the bracket - mine is truly parallel to the input shaft.   Their's will induce some side to side motion in your fore/aft selection = vague feeling.  Again, the H isn't perpendicular, so vague.  Even the slightest pulls "on paper" are really quite noticeable in reality. Classic engineering example I deal with every day here at work... "the side to side push/pull is only .030", so no big deal"  to which I respond "multiplied by a 4" shift handle input = .120", basically 1/8".  You wouldn't feel the .030" at the trans, but you definitely feel the 1/8" in your right hand ." Drive-ability, you are in OC and my car is being worked on in Orange near the circle off Chapman.  I have the engine and trans out of the car sitting behind it right now.  I will be there next Saturday afternoon to remove the interior while they cut out the floorpan... let me know if you would like to swing by and see the stuff personally.  Maybe it will help you out.

That post says it all, my shift linkage moves in a lot of directions before in-gaging. I found the ratio in the fore/aft to be a problem. There wasn't enough mechanical leverage applied with the 930 trans. For now I increased the leverage with great results. I can now find the gears and would say its at about 90%. I do like your design especially at the transmission. I would like to see your set up, let me know about Satruday....
John

PM me with your number if you wish. I will know more about the timeframe I will be there as the week draws on... definitely plan on early afternoon as a "for sure", but I don't know if he is going to get there at 11AM or noon or ?? Saturday hours are strictly up to AJ (the owner) - they aren't "posted" hours...

Heck, if anyone else in the OC area really wants to see what a mess I can make of a 914 can PM me too. I will have to ask AJ if it is okay if I get a bunch of PMs, but if I get a couple, no problem for sure. I won't have a lot of time to talk since I need to be working , where is the bloody knuckles smiley... that is what we need, a bloody knuckles smiley (my hands are carved up from last Saturday's thrash)... but would show you guys the mess and meet a couple fellow teeners for sure. I know that even seeing someone's crazy ideas is good if you are doing a similar project; I looked at every V8 914 and Pantera I could find before starting mine.

this is going to be brutal adding one pic at a time...

can more than one pic be attached to a post???? Can they be previewed to know how big they are going to be. Right now, my pics are more like a grenade and I never know what is going to happen until after I pull the pin...

otherwise, here is a series of pics of my stuff disassembled somewhat, but you will all get the idea. Before you look like this and do a couple of these and a , I promise this worked very well. It was notchy, but that is a 930 thing. The point is it was precise and I knew when I was going for 2nd and when I was going for 4th.

And NO I didn't have a few of these during the machining process

Hope this helps some of you guys in your quest for clean shifting cable boxes... I just realized I forgot to take pics of the shifter itself, but it is just a late model cable tower (boxter - mine was a 6spd knob so maybe 996/997? They are basically the same tower, just a different shift knob to match the trans pattern)

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Just came across this thread; great info !

I'm curious about how cable shifter setups like this deal with dust and grit. Looks like they're just out in the open, as opposed to being enclosed (e.g., the plastic box around the 901 sideshifter linkage). Isn't that red piece with the slot going to just load up with grit and wear itself out ? Seems like there would have to be some grease in there, which is only gonna make the grit problem worse.

I'm not trying to be critical, just wondering .....

Just came across this and my question is... has the shifting "problem" been fixed? I will be going with a 930 soon and I want to have the quirks worked out before I start. You guys are a wealth of knowledge!!
Keep it up and learn me sumtin gud!

Ian in Iraq

QUOTE (jsteele22 @ Feb 17 2006, 04:38 PM)

Just came across this thread; great info ! I'm curious about how cable shifter setups like this deal with dust and grit. Looks like they're just out in the open, as opposed to being enclosed (e.g., the plastic box around the 901 sideshifter linkage). Isn't that red piece with the slot going to just load up with grit and wear itself out ? Seems like there would have to be some grease in there, which is only gonna make the grit problem worse. I'm not trying to be critical, just wondering .....

if I drove the car on the street daily, I would fab up a cover to keep grime out - that wouldn't be that difficult. But because I mostly track the car, it doesn't get everyday use, and I go over the car completely every 2-3 track days (depending on how many laps I got in...) and check all the fasteners to make sure they haven't loosened up, and when I do, it is really fast and easy for me to take that stuff off, hit it with some cleaner and regrease/reassemble. It gets pretty dusty on the outside, but the grease wasn't that bad because it would take a while for the dirt to migrate its way in.

As for Ian's questions, car shifted as good as a 930 with shift... because the 930 is kinda "notchy"... but there was no "vagueness" in the shifting whatsoever. I haven't driven one, but have heard the later G50 stuff isn't as notchy (but they are longer).