Hi Guys, A couple years ago we took a 914/Chev back to stock for a customer. I then decided to build a 283 powered car for myself. I would like to avoid the huge cutouts in the wheelhouse. has anyone mounted a fan on the trunk floor, possibly with the 2 fans already on the radiator? This would be great for an already AC cut trunk floor. I'd appreciate your input. Thanks! Brad

914 Limited Inc.
Brad Mayeur
1162 N. Byerly Hills Dr.
East Peoria, IL. 61611
309-694-1797
Fax 309-698-2203
P914ltd@yahoo.com

Check out Philip Haun's V6 conversion. He has a radiator and fan unit mounted on the floor of the front trunk. All the air vents out the bottom of the car. Picture of the set-up here.

Laid down was how Jaide did it in the 80's. They even put a cover to keep the trunk useful. It may be in my "Jaide" thread in my signature...

How feasible could an engine-bay setup be? I know it wouldn't fit in front like the Suby, but there is some room beside a v8... is it even close to being enough?

Maybe a short and wide radiator, side duct from outside like modern mid-engine cars for intake, and a low profile duct across the engine-side directing exhaust air down?

I haven't had a chance to take a close look at a v8 engine bay with this in mind, so this may be out of the question. But I don't know, so I thought I'd throw this out there and get some comments.

Green=radiator, red=duct...

Brad,

Reddawg also has thier radiators exit thru the floor, I've only seen one of thier radiator setups up close and personal in a Chevy Vortec 4.3 V6 in a 914 and the owner never mentioned having any problems with it.

It just so happens that I have the fiberglass mount for that setup. I have not taken it out yet as I was thinking of enclosing the radiator exhaust with an aluminum duct that tied it all together. I may go with all aluminum and remove it, if so I'll offer it in the classifieds.

The bigest problem w/ going through the floor is it is a much higher pressure area than the wheel wells. Same issue occurs going through the hood.

Perhaps the same 1" lip at the leading edge of the hole will help

End up w/ a LOT of air being passed under the car though, remeber that during your high speed testing

BJH

Hey Brad,
I tried using only the floor cutout for a while, the car ran a little warm. I then cut out the fenderwells, car ran cooler. I put a piece of abs over the hole in the trunk floor and the car never ran hot again. I do not have any scientific data, but that's what my experience is.

The air pressure under the car will be higher than in the wheelwells, UNLESS you have an airdam in front and around the sides of the hole in the trunk floor. Idealy the airdam should be just rearward of the radiator air inlet. I will make a diagram.

Mark.

PS 20,000 miles on my V8 so far

Here is a diagram, I had a setup like this too before I cut out my wheelwells, helped a little but not as well as cutting the wheelwells.

Yes, I have spent some time in a full size automotive wind tunnel so I do have some knowledge, just no hard figures.

Mark

QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Jan 24 2006, 11:16 AM)

The bigest problem w/ going through the floor is it is a much higher pressure area than the wheel wells. Same issue occurs going through the hood. Perhaps the same 1" lip at the leading edge of the hole will help BJH

So will this work with a 1" leading edge deflector? Has anyone had success venting through the hood?

Otherwise I suppose I will try the fender well thing too.....

QUOTE (mrdezyne @ Jan 25 2006, 09:22 AM)

QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Jan 24 2006, 11:16 AM) The bigest problem w/ going through the floor is it is a much higher pressure area than the wheel wells. Same issue occurs going through the hood. Perhaps the same 1" lip at the leading edge of the hole will help BJH So will this work with a 1" leading edge deflector? Has anyone had success venting through the hood? Otherwise I suppose I will try the fender well thing too.....

"Work" is relative.

There are people driving cars set up this way. For it to "work" in my eyes it would have to work better than the fenderwells, and thus far no one has shown me it does.

I dont understand why people are opposed to cutting the inner fenders I have yet to see any stress indicators assuming the holes are cut w/ a smoth corner (holesaw and connect the dots is the best way i've found), and the "eyes" (turn signal humps) are still in place. If you have a chalon or slantnose car, some simple downbars take car of any stress that may occur.

BJH

The strength of that area comes from the compound curve.. There's a big enough flatish spot that probably doesn't add much strength, and if you cut out both sides it should be enough area for your average V8. That's what I did, we'll see how it works. If you are still worried you can weld in expanded mesh. That will bring back most of the strength but still allow air flow.

QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Jan 24 2006, 11:16 AM)

I dont understand why people are opposed to cutting the inner fenders

1. If you're ever caught out in the rain (assuming you live where rain can come up quickly and unexpectedly) the fenderwell holes will let a lot of dirty water be thrown up and into the trunk. Or you pull over and wait hours (or days) until the rain stops and things dry out.

2. The hood isn't structural, so if you hit anything there isn't much "crumple" potential left up there.

3. Doesn't Renegade cross brace the area under the headlights to eliminate headlight vibration when the wheel wells are cut out?

4. Would be nice to be able to carry something loose up there occasionally, without even having to consider if it might bounce out.

And especially:

5. Avoid having to explain points 1 through 4 to every friend who sees the inside of your open trunk when the wheelwells are cut out.

Tis what I have on mysetup..

My main problem is that
A; I dont have a 1in leading edge (its very small)
B: my hood is flat black and attracts a LOT of heat (read I burn my hand in the sun, vs another 914 had a cool hood)
c: I dont have it ducted properly.


That being said, I ran it at the wcc... Track it maxed out at 210, and I never saw it over 215. Even durring the 3 hour drive..

and hood.

pics are from a long time ago...

Since I plan on doing a V8 914 this year, I will have to keep on eye on this thread. Some interesting ideas here.

QUOTE (mrdezyne @ Jan 25 2006, 09:22 AM)

BJH [/QUOTE] So will this work with a 1" leading edge deflector? Has anyone had success venting through the hood? Otherwise I suppose I will try the fender well thing too.....

This is what I'm doing. The only thing I dislike about fender well venting, is that it creates a great big hot box ahead of the fuel tank. I have fabricated a duct that is gasketed with foam against the underside of the hood so that all the air will flow through the ducting. Actually, all of the ducting will be completely sealed; intake and exhaust sides. I also like the natural flow of hot air allowed to vent upward when the car is standing still. Hopefully, I can report on the success or failure of this method when I finish the car.

Andys

QUOTE (Paul Illick @ Jan 25 2006, 10:23 AM)

QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Jan 24 2006, 11:16 AM)   I dont understand why people are opposed to cutting the inner fenders 1. If you're ever caught out in the rain (assuming you live where rain can come up quickly and unexpectedly) the fenderwell holes will let a lot of dirty water be thrown up and into the trunk. Or you pull over and wait hours (or days) until the rain stops and things dry out. 2. The hood isn't structural, so if you hit anything there isn't much "crumple" potential left up there. 3. Doesn't Renegade cross brace the area under the headlights to eliminate headlight vibration when the wheel wells are cut out? 4. Would be nice to be able to carry something loose up there occasionally, without even having to consider if it might bounce out. And especially: 5. Avoid having to explain points 1 through 4 to every friend who sees the inside of your open trunk when the wheelwells are cut out.

1. Rain will get in anyways, you have a hole there somewhere And odds are good that there will be more water coming in from the front (w/ the airflow) than fighting through the air to get in.

2. Agreed, no structure in the hood. Very little in the inner fenders w/ stock outer fenders.

3. If the car has cage plans in the future, or has fiberglass fenders, yes. W/ cage plans it's the easiest time to do it... dont have to remove the radiator int he future. W/ fiberglass fenders, the strength of the outerfenders is gone, so there is alot more load on the inners.

4. It can still come out the hole in the floor or hood And You can use expanded sheet metal to cover the holes if you would like.

5. If anyone mentions it... Kick them in the throat

BJH

I like the idea of venting through the hood for no other reasons other than asthetics. A couple deep vents up there I think would look really agressive. Of course if it cools that would be a bonus.

inspriration......

and one really nice little teener...... Who's is this BTW?

The problem w/ trying to get the "Look" down is you HAVE to be done 1/2 way up the hood. On the Lotus and the GT40 the vents extend alomst to the windshield.

BJH

As far as the look, no you cant get the GT40 look to be right... thought about it for a while...


This is what i'll be doing...

Hood Vents

Pretty simple... Very cool

Bada-Bing! This is exactly what I had in mind. I knew it would be possible using the techniques for building sub enclosures and flowing/blending shapes. I will probably use wood templates for shapes so they are absolutely equal side to side and a little more rigid than wire for mounting while forming. Thanks for that link, I just needed to see someone else doing it first......

I personally do not like venting through the wheel wells for the aformentioned reasons. The really big reason for me is at extreme speed, the air venting via wheel wells or down from the trunk will most definetly create lift. My car is capable of insane speeds...so I created a GT40 style air tunnel venting hot radiator air out of the hood and, equally important, this design creates a huge amount of downforce at speed. Randy Beck (son of Chuck Beck 550 Spyder fame) raced a 914/6 (normally aspirated 300HP) and outhandled and outdrove 99% of the competition (read 911 twin turbos and such). Yes he races against some cars sporting over 700HP! He explained to me that his tunnel (built only for aerodynamic downforce) allowed him to stick it to everyone in the corners. I've seen the car on the track and it is so stuck down you'd swear it had a suck fan installed somewhere! Anyway, Randy told me a few years ago that I should copy his design and use it on my 914LS6 V-8 car. He even gave me a diffuser mold from his car to use on my A.I.R fibreglass hood. I cut the reinforcement ribs on the backside of the hood, cut a hole to the correct dimension, glassed the reinforcement rib structure back together, glassed the aero diffuser on top of the hood and blended it, created a separate removable fibreglass tunnel piece...and the pictures do a better job of describing it. It took a bunch of time and effort...but it works awesome. I have a 3 core aluminum Fluidyne custom radiator w/ twin fans. On most normal days (60-85 degrees) my car will never top 180 degrees. On one muggy 100 degree day I sat still in a backed up traffic jam for 30 minutes (no airflow) and calmly noticed my temp guage reading 190. I drove to Indy last year for the F1 debacle and never saw the temp go over 180 (even in Chicago rush hour). I run a stock LS1/6 water pump in the normal location and have cut out a hole in the firewall to allow it to protrude through into the cockpit. A custom fibreglass cover is installed over it and can be removed for access. I spent 7 years working on this car and I'll admit that it took alot of work to get it this far. I know Brad Mayeur and believe he's trying to put together a real nice sleeper. If this is the case, I would bet he's not in a real hurry to start cutting holes in the hood. It is true that when you make a system like mine or the other hood venting guys out there...you run a higher risk of rain water ingestion. I try to avoid driving my car in the rain and so far I managed to avoid it. However, I should think about sealing everything tighter than a drum and have a provision to direct & drain water out. I'm planning on driving my car out to Portland for the 914 get together and I can pretty well bet I'll get wet a few times.

Hood venting is effective, cool, and creates downforce at speed. How can you go wrong with that?

Bill

Two 500-700hp race V8 914's here in the Bay Area are exhausting at the hood. Chris Julian will follow suit with his beast...

one more

And BTW, when a hood vent like that has sealed ducting, you can keep water out of the trunk (what's left of it ).
My car gets driven in the rain, and venting the fender wells with open holes where the tires fling water in is a concern.
Thanks for posting Bill.

Bill,
Very nice!

Is that a Sheridan front end piece? I really like what you have done with your teener. I sent you a PM with a few questions.....

QUOTE (wbergtho @ Jan 25 2006, 03:25 PM)

one more

i wonder how he remove his Optima battery from the front trunk?

QUOTE (wbergtho @ Jan 25 2006, 03:20 PM)

Hood venting is effective, cool, and creates downforce at speed. How can you go wrong with that?

very nice!

that's exactly what i had in mind for mine, except, i'll cut around what i marked green in the pic and attach that part to the hood.
the endresult is the exact same duct when the hood is closed, but leaves me with access to the front trunk area underneath when the hood is open ...

Andy

Thanks guys, I didn't expect this much information this soon. Cutting the wheelhouse is a proven way to keep cool and probably the best solution. I will probably end up doing my outlets that way but I would like to explore alternatives.
I am looking at alternatives because:
!. The front compartment gets really filthy in a short period of time.
2. This is an area that is part of the "crush zone" I have seen many wrecked 914's in the past 34 years and the inner wheelhouse is usually crumpled even in a fairly light crash.
3. I have no proof or experience but it seems cutting up into the curved area
of the wheelhouse would affect the ridigity of the front end in regards to handling. I'm sure many of you V8 guys have driven a 914 at least as hard as I have, any input on this, any before and after experiences?
4. Probably not a factor but when we "restored" the V8 car back to stock, the wheelhouse was the most difficult to area to address.
Thanks again on your input. Brad

wbergtho,

WOW! That vent is FABULOUS!

I has the same idea. I fabbed this up in one evening to vent the front oil cooler for the 2.7 - 6 ...

step one ...

Step two ...

Step three ...

That's similar to Elephant Racings hood vent installed on a FG lid

Nice study on aerodynamics too...

Harry's with leading deflector...

Rich cuz has to have one too...

I do believe thats me in the pic on the right!

I think mueller was showing me something...

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Jan 25 2006, 08:51 PM)

I do believe thats me in the pic on the right! I think mueller was showing me something...

That's Scott B (the one with the turbo V8)...

915hp.. yup I remember him..

any progress on his car?

Mark7's good friends with him and told me he bought a 930 gearbox and has been working on it. Don't think he's running yet. He surprised me by saying hello on one of my posts not too long ago...

Ya, he wanted to run 915hp (600+) on a 915....

I really didnt think it would hold...

Glad he's working on a 930...

more 915's for me (nah... i'll be running a custom trani everyone...)

Sorry... Thread highjack over.

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Jan 25 2006, 09:24 PM)

Ya, he wanted to run 915hp (600+) on a 915.... I really didnt think it would hold... Glad he's working on a 930... more 915's for me (nah... i'll be running a custom trani everyone...) Sorry... Thread highjack over.

I hear MikeP's 915 may be available...

I am enjoying this thread!!!

I may try the hood cutout. Chris Julian and I have discused this topic on many occasions. I need to get the nerve to cut my hood.

Mar7ck

Again?

I'll entertain his previous offer

lol

if I can scrounge that money up... I just dont want to dip into my savings... WAY to much stuff to buy before wcc (like a welder... ouch..)

Andrew

Very timely topic for me, I just started designing my radiator mount today. I've been dead set against cutting my fenderwells ever since I decided to go with a water cooled engine. I was going to louver the trunk floor but I'm not happy with that much air being directed under the car. Then I see this and I'm back to thinking I want a hood vent.



Question: With the targa top off does the hot air get dumped in the cabin? Someone a few years ago told me this was the case so I started looking at other options.

Nice work wbergtho!

I have recently completed my conversion and am testing hood venting options as well:

V8 Conversion

I have three hoods to work with. The following is my first test using a perforated metal panel to cover the cutout. It seems to work very well as it is, but I have not driven the car at high speeds yet, or with the top off. If you place your hand on the trianglular window as you drive, you feel the warm air sliding by the car surface - within a 1 one inch zone. The hot air flow seems to wrap around the windshield. Probably does the same over the roof. It does not enter the car with the windows down.

Disadvantages that I have observed:
Heat waves (shimmering) that rise from the hood vent that distort your vision as the car sits at idle and the fans kick on.
Loud fan sound outside of the car - no noticable difference inside. I assume that wheel well cutouts will result in quiter fan sound outside the car.

If the open area that I am using is inadequate, I can increase the hole sizes and/or cut out the two smaller panel sections on the hood.

I am also going to try louvers.

If I do decide to use the perforated plate, the final version will have the holes either drilled individually into the hood or cut with an automated plasma cutter.

I think that the perforated plate covering is an improvement over an uncovered vent opening. It seems to do a lot to improve the aerodynamic flow over the car hood and helps maintain a low pressure over the hood and keeps the air stream from entering the front compartment as it might with an uncovered opening with no leading edge lip.

With the top off, no noticable heat is entered into the cabin. But put your hand over the windshield and you can feel it.

just when you thought you've seen it all...

yours for $1500