and i need some help with wiring it.
i have a 240v service that used to go to hot water heater, [tub location is just outside, could be easy to run to tub] but its only a hot hot and grnd. tub is hot hot nutral and grnd. help!

building codes changed in the last few years, added a ground to 220 appliances. Newer houses have a four prong outlet for electric dryers. Older houses have a 3 prong. Ground and neutral are almost the same thing they just go to a different buss in the panel. Your old H2O heater is hot-hot-neutral.

Are there some 120VAC lights or accessories?

That might also explain the neutral.....


John

OT topic with no OT, better watch it, the OT nazis will come after you...

if you ever weigh the hot tub, make sure the scale starts at zero.

b

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jan 26 2006, 06:52 PM)

if you ever weigh the hot tub, make sure the scale starts at zero. b

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QUOTE (MarkV @ Jan 26 2006, 06:43 PM)

building codes changed in the last few years, added a ground to 220 appliances. Newer houses have a four prong outlet for electric dryers. Older houses have a 3 prong. Ground and neutral are almost the same thing they just go to a different buss in the panel. Your old H2O heater is hot-hot-neutral.

i've been reading on gfi breackers and if the nuetral and grnd are connect at the gfi box it'll trip.

this is what i'm worried about.



GFCI Installation on Four Wire 240V Systems;

In new spa / hot tub installations it is a common problem to have a miss-wired GFCI.

NOTE that there are different models of GFCI used in the market, the following description is generic.

To properly wire a GFCI on a four wire 240V installation, when using a sub-panel box, all four wires should be brought out from the main box. The two hot legs should be attached to the GFCI breaker at the proper locations, then come out of the GFCI breaker and be run to the spa. The neutral leg from the main box should come out and be attached to the neutral bus located on the side of the breaker. The neutral pigtail on the breaker should then be attached to the other side of the neutral bus. There is a location for another neutral lead that goes out to the spa from the breaker, this neutral wire should be run out to the spa. The ground wire from the house and ground from the spa should be bonded together in the sub-box. If the neutral and ground are not kept separate in this fashion the spa will instantly trip the GFCI breaker.

See the instructions that come with the GFCI for additional information

need to keep this near top

QUOTE

this is what i'm worried about. GFCI Installation on Four Wire 240V Systems; In new spa / hot tub installations it is a common problem to have a miss-wired GFCI. NOTE that there are different models of GFCI used in the market, the following description is generic. To properly wire a GFCI on a four wire 240V installation, when using a sub-panel box, all four wires should be brought out from the main box. The two hot legs should be attached to the GFCI breaker at the proper locations, then come out of the GFCI breaker and be run to the spa. The neutral leg from the main box should come out and be attached to the neutral bus located on the side of the breaker. The neutral pigtail on the breaker should then be attached to the other side of the neutral bus. There is a location for another neutral lead that goes out to the spa from the breaker, this neutral wire should be run out to the spa. The ground wire from the house and ground from the spa should be bonded together in the sub-box. If the neutral and ground are not kept separate in this fashion the spa will instantly trip the GFCI breaker. See the instructions that come with the GFCI for additional information

Whoa there Troy......

Whats with the sub panel? You never mentioned this in you earlier posts? And whats the deal with the tub falling off a truck? Forget the old hot water tank circuit. It is a 2 wire with ground. You need a 3 wire circuit with ground. Plus, you need a service disconnect on the outside of the house. Can you post all the electrical requirements from the nameplate on the tub? And is the tub cord and plug or hard wired? Eddy

its hard wired and i'll get the rest off the tub tommorow.

fallen off the truck... well a freinds freind is demo'ing a house to build a high $$$$ house in its place [we know how often that's going on up here] and i was was given the first dibbs on it for a good price. but now unless i can do this my self it'll cost more to get it wired than it cost to buy it. frigging gfi is $90. but i'm supposed to get the sub box from the wreakout.

The disconnect will cost you $65. Why do you need a sub panel? You said (indirectly) that you have two spare slots in your main panel from the old hot water tank. BTW, hot tub wiring is expensive. We make good money on those. Eddy

Electrical considerations
The National Electrical Code requires that a manual disconnect device for your hot tub be installed at least 5 ft. away, and within 15 ft. (line of sight) of the spa for safety.



supposed to be code mounted min. five feet away.

remember i'm a 914 owner csob

just went and looked. 240v 30 amp 100gal per min.?

I will bet that you will be into it over $300 by doing it you self. Calling an electrician will cost probably $1000 to $1500.

How far away is the elec panel frm the tub location? Need to know elec requirements first. Also, how many amp panel is in your house? Age of panel? Brand and model of panel? (dont tell me it's a Zinsco). Circuit going thru an unfinished garage? Or is the a crawl space job? Eddy

58 feet, 200amp, cert tag 6-2-77, ge, finished garage. split entry on pad. plan on post wiring w/conduit and follow gas post plumb around to back of house.

thats if i have to run four wire to do this to code

There is a little problem here if ya don't do it to code..

Someone can die... REALLY.....

GFCIs and 4 wire and a disconnect (in case shit happens and to service equipment) ARE NEEDED to keep a pool, spa, safe for all.

In my opinion and in the NEC.

Just because some idiot state gave me an electrical contractors license, don't make me knowledgable.

And it don't make me dumb either...

Wish ya lived close so I could help more...

Regards,
Twystd1

Still waiting for tub nameplate info............

Hi,
It's hard to sift through all of the posts. I do have 34 years of being a journeyman electrician. You can use the wire you have from your hot water heater, if the tub is 120 volts. You would then disconnect the wires at the panel, and reconnect them to hot nuetral ground. The tub should say what the amperage is. Hot water heaters are usually #10 . Good for 30 amps. I'm assuming that the hot tub Is 240 volts, with 120 volt accesories. If this is true, you need hot hot nuetral ground. And usually these take #6 or #8 wire size. One thing to know is that most panels "bond" the nuetral (connect them together with a green screw inside the house panel) at the point of service connect, at the panel, just inside the house), the exception is in the case of a mobile home. Then the nuetral is bonded at the service connection by meter and not at the mobile home panel. Gfci breakers are not a guarantee of protection against getting hurt or killed. All they do is detect a problem with the presence of a ground. If I put my old style, solenoid type tester in the hot and nuetral prongs (slots) of a gfci receptacle, it will trip,(no ground). They usually cover most problems with electricity. They detect any problem with a ground and trip inmuch less than a second. I've seen them just not trip sometimes. Just still be careful around electricity.
If you use old wires at all, be sure to test them. Use a continuity tester, grounding disconnected wires one at a time, then check the other end with a continuity tester to ground, this should complete a circuit. This will ID a wire for you. If you can run wire under the house and unexposed,you can use, UF cable. rated for 600 volts, and direct burial. Home depot or a menards type store can usually tell you what ampreage a wire is good for. Some improved insulation can raise the amperage. If you don't have enough wires with old wire, and can't use the UF cable, you may have to run conduit. Hope this helps.LB

Eddy what info do you need from the name plate? i posted the 240v 30 amp from the spec sticker off the tub panel.

for eddy

QUOTE

Eddy what info do you need from the name plate? i posted the 240v 30 amp from the spec sticker off the tub panel.

Sorry Troy.....

Missed that one. I have been working a bunch of OT lately and have not had time to respond. Okay, what you need is a copper, #8 AWG, 3 conductor with ground. Buy Romex if you are planning on drilling the studs. Anything on the surface must be in conduit. Don't use plastic (PVC) though. It is toxic when it burns. Home Depot sells combo GFCI/service disconnects especially for hot tubs. Maybe this is the "sub panel" you were talking about??? You will also need a 40 amp, double pole breaker at the main panel. Just price out the materials. If the tub is not too far from the electrical panel, it should not cost too much. You can PM me and I will call you. Sorry, too busy to do the work though. Eddy

Oops....

Finished garage.........look at mc cable. You can run it on the surface of your garage. It's quick and the wire is pre-installed from the factory. You can use plastic PVC on the outside from the disconnect to the tub. Eddy

thanx Eddy, i can do the wiring no problem, just worried about code. now that i know i have to do it the long hard way [uho is this going in to the sandbox ] i can do it. just have to wait till after childsupport payment gets done.