As I was standing in the garage having a cup of coffee this morning, I was thinking about my braking system. I thought to myself, wow, i wonder if there is an stand alone ABS system that I could put in here. That ran me down the other list of things that I want to do to my car and the $$$ associated with that. Oh well, I need the roll cage, motor, and ......
C

a trained right foot don't need not abs

Front only abs would be nice. With an electric brakes booster that jumps the pressure to some thousand psi. Yeah!

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jan 27 2006, 01:05 PM)

a trained right foot don't need not abs

Can a trained right foot pump one caliper at 10 times per second while applying steady pressure to the others?

To further your journey into the ABS you may want to consider a system off of a BMW motorcycle. BMW bikes are what come to mind because I have two and am familiar, to a point, with thier system. Plus, if its on a bike it is probably small , very protable , and should not be too hard to find

FYI: many of the BMW bikes use the same calipers as other light sports cars, Brembo. My 1100RS has dual front, and a single rear caliper.

It should be a good candidate for two wheel ABS. Who knows?

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Jan 27 2006, 07:39 PM)

Front only abs would be nice. With an electric brakes booster that jumps the pressure to some thousand psi. Yeah!

sounds like a great way to lock up your rear brakes

QUOTE (Rrrockhound @ Jan 27 2006, 11:31 PM)

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jan 27 2006, 01:05 PM) a trained right foot don't need not abs Can a trained right foot pump one caliper at 10 times per second while applying steady pressure to the others?

I've driven cars with ABS and it's highly overrated
Gives the driver a false sense of safety...
I don't need it, thank you very much

I've only driven two cars with ABS, an early 90s Prelude and my wife's 2004 Subaru. The Prelude system was simply dangerous. I sailed right through an intersection with patchy ice because the ABS had such a slow cycling time that it was applying the brakes on the icy bits and releasing them on the bits without ice. Scary.

The Soob system is so passive that you really have to be aggressive to activate it. You can get some minor slip, but if you go really gonzo and slam on the brakes, you can just barely feel it kick in. However, the car has soft enough suspension that things get pretty hairy if you try to brake hard and turn, and not from wheel slip, but from wheels leaving the ground entirely.

Anyone who really needs it should probably be taking the bus instead.

ABS only the fronts, yeah, good idea...

My car already has ABS..... Adrenaline Braking System.

When something is too close and I have to hit the brakes, The adrenaline kicks in....

ABS is a double edged sword..

I used to race with a guy that had an E30 (I think) M3..

Once the ABS sensor on one of his wheels failed. He promptly flat spotted his tires.. He had no idea how to modulate "regular " brakes. He came into the pits slammed his helmet down in a very melodramatic fashion and had a tantrum..Bill and I though it quite funny..

I always thought it pretty sad that some race drivers, just stand on the brakes and let the ABS modulate and slow the car..because cables and sensors do fail.. One should have the skills to deal with that.

Proper braking technique takes some seat time.

If a stand alone ABS system was available for a 914 at a reasonable price, I'd be on it like a chicken on a june bug. It's not likely to happen due to the variables involved along with the dangers of letting folks mess with it.....liability & all.

Humm...modulate 3 braking tires. ...or more precisely, tires that brake at differnent rates. I gotta work on that

JP when one sensor on the ABS system goes out.. the whole ABS is offline

ie if one ABS sensor fails, you dont still have three wheels with ABS.. you have zero wheels with ABS..at least on the early M3s

If thats what your talkin about..

QUOTE (Dr Evil @ Jan 27 2006, 03:08 PM)

To further your journey into the ABS you may want to consider a system off of a BMW motorcycle. BMW bikes are what come to mind because I have two and am familiar, to a point, with thier system. Plus, if its on a bike it is probably small , very protable , and should not be too hard to find FYI: many of the BMW bikes use the same calipers as other light sports cars, Brembo. My 1100RS has dual front, and a single rear caliper. It should be a good candidate for two wheel ABS. Who knows?

Hi Mike, how's Noel? Rose says hello...

I wish my car weighed 500 pounds.

Good idea?

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jan 27 2006, 05:28 PM)

QUOTE (Rrrockhound @ Jan 27 2006, 11:31 PM) QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jan 27 2006, 01:05 PM) a trained right foot don't need not abs Can a trained right foot pump one caliper at 10 times per second while applying steady pressure to the others? I've driven cars with ABS and it's highly overrated Gives the driver a false sense of safety... I don't need it, thank you very much

I have driven lots of cars with and without ABS. I can use both pretty effectively, but I hate those abs systems that deploy too early. I like the things you can do without a computer between you and the brake sometimes. However ABS is nice as you cant lock up a single wheel when surfaces are slicker than expected.

You know which company has really impressed me with their ABS application? Mazda! They have perfected the ABS systems on the all new 2006 MX5 and RX8. They figured out how to give these two cars threshold braking all the way to where the wheels start to skid and then the system smoothly modulates without the typical pulsing associated with ABS equipped Porsches I have driven. The MX5 and RX8 offer better to equal stopping distances to the Honda S2000, Lotus Elise, Boxster, Enzo and lots of other expensive cars with much better (stickier and wider) tires and suspensions.

Well, that puts a different spin on things. (NPI)

So he should have changed his braking points and modulated his brakes as soon as he realized his ABS was non functional, eh? Personally, I would have pulled off. Had I not realized that I had a problem, I would have braked at my usual point, flatspottted my tires, pulled off, & then been pissed.

What I can't discern is what your position on ABS would be.
Better or worse than non?

QUOTE

What I can't discern is what your position on ABS would be.

I like ABS, though none of my own race cars are ABS equiped, I drive enough, and
instruct in enough cars that have ABS to form an opinion. I have had students that approach a corner, and just stand on the brake till the ABS is active..they just step off the brake..and they use the "brake till I feel the ABS technique"

Ive had students that were totally lost when PSM was switched off...

I embrace all the tech, but believe driver should learn to drive sans all the tech.. learn car control without the bells and whistles..

QUOTE (TimT @ Jan 27 2006, 07:36 PM)

I embrace all the tech, but believe driver should learn to drive sans all the tech.. learn car control without the bells and whistles..

Ah, a true 914 guy.
I believe you're right, but it's been forced on me.

I thought ABS was STOCK on my 914!!!

I can't get my brakes to lock up if my life depended on it!

(after overhauling all 4 calipers, installing a 19mm overhauled master cylinder, I'm convinced the inside of the lines have corroded internally and I'm getting a ridiculous pressure drop.. I've bled the system 'til the cows came home and still no intended lockup.....)

Personally in the NE snow belt, I love ABS...

It keeps me from fixing all my cars...

I do train my kids on cars without it so they know how to drive without it...that is very important, because it does not work that well on ice...it actually makes the situation worse in some conditions...

So, learn how to pump the brakes...

But ABS is alot of fun the the snow...

It really stops the car quick...versus the slide to a stop technique...

Rich

I had pretty much the same experience with my car when it was stock but with 195 X 60 tires. I'm told that now days (then was pre-internet days for me) that can be cured. I cured it my own way.

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jan 27 2006, 08:28 PM)

QUOTE (Rrrockhound @ Jan 27 2006, 11:31 PM) QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jan 27 2006, 01:05 PM) a trained right foot don't need not abs Can a trained right foot pump one caliper at 10 times per second while applying steady pressure to the others? I've driven cars with ABS and it's highly overrated Gives the driver a false sense of safety... I don't need it, thank you very much

Well, as someone who grew up and learned to drive in the snowbelt of Cleveland, I swear by ABS, because there's nothing like the feeling of stepping on the brakes in a snow squall and realizing that you're not...going...to...stop...in...time...

Forget the macho BS. Most driving isn't on the track...

QUOTE

it actually makes the situation worse in some conditions..

Snow and Ice is one situation where ABS may be questionable. I havent found ABS to be superior to the brakes on my past vehicles on these surfaces... and to answer the next question, I spend alot of time in Vermont in the winter

QUOTE

Forget the macho BS. Most driving isn't on the track...

Track or not.. Drivers should know basic car control skills, ABS sensors do fail, the wires do get damaged...

Id rather for me and my passengers safety that I have a skill set that may not rely on electronics for their safety

I have ABS on Mr 2. I can't recall ever having induced it's operation in 6-8 years of street driving (or it is seamless). I prefer to think this is another skill set.

QUOTE (TimT @ Jan 27 2006, 06:47 PM)

ABS is a double edged sword.. I used to race with a guy that had an E30 (I think) M3.. Once the ABS sensor on one of his wheels failed. He promptly flat spotted his tires.. He had no idea how to modulate "regular " brakes. He came into the pits slammed his helmet down in a very melodramatic fashion and had a tantrum..Bill and I though it quite funny.. I always thought it pretty sad that some race drivers, just stand on the brakes and let the ABS modulate and slow the car..because cables and sensors do fail.. One should have the skills to deal with that. Proper braking technique takes some seat time.

My first couple track events were spent chasing or leading a guy with a first generation Acura integra type R. The thing was really pretty fast especially under braking (I could never get enought front brake to really balance the car on my rabbit.) On fine day he parked his nice shiny car into the pit wall at Buttonwillow - ABS failure. Turns out all he was doing was standing on brakes and letting the ABS do it's thing - all the time on the track. When it failed he locked up the rear brakes and rotated right into the pit wall at about 60mph.

A little off topic but worthwhile - I want a wheel lockup indicator. A simple deal with 4 leds that shows when a wheel is locked up or turning way to slow.

I was not there. Don't know the guy etc...

What I do know if the ABS system fails the light is suppose to
go on. If any part of the ABS system fails the car just use
the system like a normal car with out ABS. Maybe since it
sound like you where talking about a race, maybe they
removed the dash and replaced with aftermarket gauages.

I have removed a stand alone ABS unit from a Bmw, unfortunately I dont
remember the exact year or model, but believe it was a 1988 528I sedan.
Seperate harness straight to its own computer, four sensors and easily
removed harness. Power directly from battery, 2 wires to dash, abs light
and ignition. Something to play with later. Regardless how good you think
you are in manipulating (pedupilating?) the brakes, a good ABS is hard
to beat in an emergency. Dimitri

I must say... I am impressed by ABS....

The mom mobile has abs (01 galant v6) and it throws me (and anyone else in the car ) forward.. Those brakes ROCK

My car... Doesnt come close to that! I have A calipers with pagrid racing pads and other junk...

Heck the 944's stop on a dime! (especially with sticky tires... 30-0 ~1 car length.. UNGH (sound i make))


I'll be all over abs like flies on my g/fs cooking.