ive had alot of questions to ask since i bought my 914 but just now got on the forums so i hope im not asking too many questions at one time here. let me know if i am. im looking to do a little weekend racing and want to use my daily driver as my car and not have to have a roll cage or engine built for pure racing purposes. ive been looking around and found auto crossing but as i understand the rules, you can not have any engine mods only suspension mods. is there any auto crossing or racing like this to where you can have engine mods or even an engine swap.

Easy way to answer your own question is to get in touch with the auto-x club in your area, get on their boards with questions, and get a copy of their rule book. Likely there are several classes your '14 could play in, each with different car prep rules, from stock to bring-it-in-on-a-trailer.

Lots of different classes depending on what you have done/want to do with your car. Every thing from pure stock to all out track cars (and every thing in between). Check with your local chapter of SCCA or Porsche Club of America. Good places to start.

Enjoy!

QUOTE (gregrobbins @ Feb 7 2006, 09:20 PM)

Lots of different classes depending on what you have done/want to do with your car.

as long as you keep the engine porsche, they will have some class for you to squeeze in.

now, you might not be very competitive in that class, or, like it happened to me 2 years ago, you could end up being the only car in your class!

to me, the classes don't matter much, i'm not after any trophies etc.
i always compare my times to the fastest car of the day, regardless of class ...

it's supposed to be fun!
Andy

From my experience I have found the SCCA to be biased against Porsches and I can't remember if the 914's still compete against the Miata's or not but the drivers tend to be a little more serious. In San Diego with the SCCA they had published class schedules and would do tech most all day so if you did not have to run or work until lunch time you could sleep in and get there at 10AM or so. The Porsche club here on the other hand gives you much more track time but the tech starts at 7AM and you have to be there for the driver's meeting around 8AM or so. Both have instructors and will be glad to have you attend.

Most clubs will have a class for you to play no matter what the mods are. Granted, most of the classes that go beyond "stock" (and each club has a different interpretation of "stock") will be populated mostly by trailer-riding-fire-breathing-monsters. But they won't tell you tel go home if that's what you're asking.

As for being competitive? Don't expect to the next Senna on your first day, month, year or more. Autox is 90% driver, 10% car. A great driver in a mediocre car will always win over a mediocre driver in a great car. Don't worry about being competitive, or bringing home a trophy. Just focus on learning.

You will not likely find a more helpfull and enthusiastic group of fellow gear-heads.

SCCA, PCA, BMWCCA, and many others hold autoxes. PCA generally has a class just for 914's... While SCCA has to try and class -everything-. Sometimes bias can be percieved. Does the 914 get treated poorly in the SCCA? Well... It does have stiff competition. And it's based on past success. The 914, at one time, was a dominant force in SCCA racing. And now they seem to be coming back. Time will tell if the classing and rules make it competitive. But I aim to try!!

My $0.02...

-Josh2

thanks for all the speedy replys. and yes like some of you said im not in it for the trophies or out to be the fastest car but im out there just because i love to drive and race and want to keep the latter off the street. the one thing im worried about its at what point of engine mods do you have to have all the safty equipment: roll cage, fuel cell, fire suppresssion, or do you not have to have any of this in auto x. i just want to go out run my street car around some cones and have alot engine mods but not have to have a roll cage or any of the other saftey equipment in the car. sorry if these are really bad newbie questions, but thanks for the help.

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 7 2006, 10:38 PM)

the one thing im worried about its at what point of engine mods do you have to have all the safty equipment: roll cage, fuel cell, fire suppresssion, or do you not have to have any of this in auto x.

none of the above needed for AX ...


BUT, if you go BIG on the engine, you might want to consider some upgrades to your suspension, brakes and chassis "for your own (and others) safety" ...
Andy

Something you will learn very quickly is that engine really isnt too important in AX. I drive one of the slowest cars Porsche has produced in the last 30 years. But I have dumped a ton of money into brakes, suspension, lightweight parts and tires and can do ok on slower courses against cars with 4 times as much hp.

As mentioned above if you stay with Porsche engine you will find a class in PCA events. SCCA will have a class for you regardless of what you do.

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 7 2006, 11:38 PM)

thanks for all the speedy replys. and yes like some of you said im not in it for the trophies or out to be the fastest car but im out there just because i love to drive and race and want to keep the latter off the street. the one thing im worried about its at what point of engine mods do you have to have all the safty equipment: roll cage, fuel cell, fire suppresssion, or do you not have to have any of this in auto x. i just want to go out run my street car around some cones and have alot engine mods but not have to have a roll cage or any of the other saftey equipment in the car. sorry if these are really bad newbie questions, but thanks for the help.

welcome....

you keep saying "engine mods"

what motor do you have and what do you want to do?

are your brakes in perfect working order? (new fluid, good pads and properly working calipers)

what about the suspension? good shocks, ball joints and tie rods and at least a front roll bar?

As far as when you need a cage and the other pricey "race" stuff, it's class dependant and in some cases not needed at all, just recommended.

for auto-x, at least up here, you can have a supercharger AND a turbo at the same time and not be required to have a roll cage or anything else besides the factory seat belts that the car came with......like mentioned earlier, a lot of times it;s a combination of non-stock items that'll put you into a class where you need to have the cage and all....

some of the "race" stuff like the cage or fuel cell will actually put you in a higher more competition type class even if you have a bone stock 80hp motor......

thats great to know that i can still compete in autox with engine mods. the engine mods i plan on doing is increase bore, maybe stroke, cams, forged rods and pistons, valve and head work and maybe even if i have the money a set of nikkies. as for suspension i plan a full upgrade. im thinking of a 911 sc front suspension setup with rotors and discs, and koni's all around, 180-200 lbs springs in back and stiffer torson bars up front. 911 fuchs probably 8-9 in the rear and 7-8 up front with fiberglass fender flares, oh yeah and front and rear sway bars. i plan to really build this car up in the next couple years. i just wanted to make sure i could still compete in auto x with a modded and built engine. i was reading through the scca rules and mis-understood them i thought that once you had modified the engine you could no longer compete in auto x and had to run in the solo class and have all the saftey equipement. thanks again for all your help.

I think you should skip the T4 engine and go with a 6 conversion... you'll get more hp and the around the same cost that your looking at... You'll like it more on the street as well

your suspension mods sound right on.. but details is were that comes in.

btw, (as discussed in another thread going right now) you dont really want to increase the bore with the T4 heads, morely the stroke, the heads match nicely and it makes for a very potent engine, 78x96 if I remember right is the good combo. Do some searches.

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Feb 8 2006, 01:35 AM)

I think you should skip the T4 engine and go with a 6 conversion... you'll get more hp and the around the same cost that your looking at... You'll like it more on the street as well your suspension mods sound right on.. but details is were that comes in. btw, (as discussed in another thread going right now) you dont really want to increase the bore with the T4 heads, morely the stroke, the heads match nicely and it makes for a very potent engine, 78x96 if I remember right is the good combo. Do some searches.

it's easy to spend someone elses money ain't it???

Always!

Now if it were me...

turbo tie rods, welt front and rear bar, koni's, 140 rear springs hammered flares revolution wheels as much rubber as can fit, sticky brake pads w/ rebuilt calipers and good fluid, new lines (gas too), brake valve w/ 19mm m/c, seats, harness and wheel, and cam the engine while stroking it and a megasquirt system, exhaust by a local shop w/ magnaflow muffler.

and a turbo system in the works.

I figure all that can be had for under 3k

Andrew


That better mike?

HA HA HA
All that can be had for under 3K ???? better get a different car. that pissy little bit of change will only get you a small amount of any of that stuff.

SCCA if you mod anything inbetween the intake and exhaust valve you go to Street Mod 2 , Prepared, E or D Modified. Better bring a wheel barrow full of money.

As far as competative??? it is mostly driver as stated above. next is Tires. 800 bucks for Hoosiers will go a good way to putting you in TTOD. 20 runs and repeat new tires. Yea they are that important.
I'm going to finish off both left over sets of Hoosiers this spring and get some new ones soon.

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Feb 8 2006, 04:02 AM)

HA HA HA All that can be had for under 3K ???? better get a different car. that pissy little bit of change will only get you a small amount of any of that stuff. SCCA if you mod anything inbetween the intake and exhaust valve you go to Street Mod 2 , Prepared, E or D Modified. Better bring a wheel barrow full of money. As far as competative??? it is mostly driver as stated above. next is Tires. 800 bucks for Hoosiers will go a good way to putting you in TTOD. 20 runs and repeat new tires. Yea they are that important. I'm going to finish off both left over sets of Hoosiers this spring and get some new ones soon.

My stockish 70 is not so stockish anymore after 2 yrs of Axing.

QUOTE (jhadler @ Feb 7 2006, 10:04 PM)

Autox is 90% driver, 10% car. A great driver in a mediocre car will always win over a mediocre driver in a great car.

I keep hearing this and I wonder where it came from.

I am Mr. Mediocre.

More than half you experienced guys could jump in my car & go faster than me. Jump in your car with me in mine, you'll prolly get waxed. This is not a pipe dream.....I've tried it on several occasions with guys I trust driving my car......also with really good guys showing up with the wrong tires......thus causing their cars to be mediocre.

I'd go with 50-50, tho

Stock???? Stock is for pussies
bought my car as a Street prepared car. Quickly needed more grunt so upgraded to my current hopped up 2.0L
Hello Street Mod 2

MOD = suspension $$$$$$$
MOD = ignition $$$$$$$$$$$$
MOD = Tires and rims$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And we all remember me whining about the new 2006 rules

so
Hello X Prepared
MOD = Tangerine header $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
MOD = Mallory Dizzy $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
MOD = Sparco seats $$$$$$$$$$$$$
MOD = fender flares $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
MOD = fiberglass body panels$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
MOD = real slicks $?$?$?$? just going to be ugly
Oh and suspension again = OMG $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Will I be competative? hell freaking no.

Joe, funny... I did it for under that

maybe im just special.

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Feb 8 2006, 11:36 AM)

QUOTE (jhadler @ Feb 7 2006, 10:04 PM) Autox is 90% driver, 10% car. A great driver in a mediocre car will always win over a mediocre driver in a great car. I keep hearing this and I wonder where it came from.

I know, I've always heard that, too. I bet it started as just a generalization to
keep people concentrated on improving themselves. But you could only take
this so far. The driver is not everything; if you put a pro driver in a stock 2CV, I
think JP is his car might be able to win

Mark:
I'm facinated by your lizard.....the one in the avartar, you prevs. I've seen vids of them suckers going full chat (they haul...er...tail), but never in slow motion.

It kinda makes me wonder. Which lizard did it first and how did it make out? Did he do it on purpose as an evasive manuaver or just for the hell of it? Can they swim?

I think I'm loosing it......

QUOTE (mskala @ Feb 8 2006, 09:03 AM)

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Feb 8 2006, 11:36 AM) QUOTE (jhadler @ Feb 7 2006, 10:04 PM) Autox is 90% driver, 10% car. A great driver in a mediocre car will always win over a mediocre driver in a great car. I keep hearing this and I wonder where it came from. I know, I've always heard that, too. I bet it started as just a generalization to keep people concentrated on improving themselves. But you could only take this so far. The driver is not everything; if you put a pro driver in a stock 2CV, I think JP is his car might be able to win

I said mediocre car, not ...

And I've seen it happen. Take a top flight driver in an underprepared car, and they have SMOKED the average driver in the snazy super car. This is of course in the same class...

I doubt a 2CV would run in the same class as a Prepared -six...... Unless they're classing the drivers instead...

The driver really is a huge percentage in autox. Power is the -last- thing to invest in for an autox car... Unless you really need the feel of 300+ horsies kicking you in the back... And who doesn't?

-Josh2

QUOTE (jhadler @ Feb 8 2006, 12:30 PM)

I said mediocre car, not ... And I've seen it happen. Take a top flight driver in an underprepared car, and they have SMOKED the average driver in the snazy super car. This is of course in the same class... I doubt a 2CV would run in the same class as a Prepared -six...... Unless they're classing the drivers instead... The driver really is a huge percentage in autox. Power is the -last- thing to invest in for an autox car... Unless you really need the feel of 300+ horsies kicking you in the back... And who doesn't? -Josh2

Humm. A local guy finishes well at the Solo Nationals.....and kicks my ass regular like in his CSP Miata.....badly. His PAX multiplier is .837, mine is .862 so I should beat him. His car is prepared superbly for his class....mine is less so.

He showed up on streets and I got him....it wasn't that close.
His car went from great to mediocre. It's happened before
and to others who are much better drivers than I.

The only folks that don't think that a high power to weight ratio car is important (along with the needed goodies) at AX, are those that don't have one.

I watched an ASP Viper up at Packwood kick everyones ass last summer. He had a shit load of power and knew how to use it. His heavy, wide car didn't seem to bother him......he was busy kickin' Z06 ass.

i'd love to see a video of that..