I have spoken with a few people about 2.4 911 E engine with carbs and so far reccomendation is to go without an oil cooler to start. General concensous is that as long as I dont run the engine too lean it should stay cool enough.

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Feb 17 2006, 10:03 PM)

I have spoken with a few people about 2.4 911 E engine with carbs and so far reccomendation is to go without an oil cooler to start. General concensous is that as long as I dont run the engine too lean it should stay cool enough.

most people say 170hp and over....

it cant hurt. more oil and more cooling ability is always a good thing.
are you going to track it? run it on hot days?

and please use engine tin.....

id do it....

Think longevity....Add it now and save yourself. If you plan on using this car on the track then the extra cooling on those 100 degree days at BW or TH will be appreciated by your motor and your wallet.
I am installing a 25 row cooler with 1600cfm fan on my 4 banger just for that reason.

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Feb 17 2006, 09:05 PM)

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Feb 17 2006, 10:03 PM) I have spoken with a few people about 2.4 911 E engine with carbs and so far reccomendation is to go without an oil cooler to start.  General concensous is that as long as I dont run the engine too lean it should stay cool enough. most people say 170hp and over.... it cant hurt. more oil and more cooling ability is always a good thing. are you going to track it? run it on hot days? and please use engine tin..... id do it....

I will be tracking the car occassionally and using it for ax. The engine came with 914-6 tin which I will use. I'll be using a bigger than stock aluminum oil tank.

just do it. its pretty cheap. cheap insurance at that....

use a nice MOCAL thermostat, and you can always tape off the opening on coooold days.

I would suggest:
Pull off the shroud & clean the cyl fins.
Remove the air deflectors and do Anderson's recommended cuts on them.....and put em' back on, of course
Delete the rear valence.
Blocking off the L&R vents (at each side of the fan) is standard practice.

On mine all was well until that one time at Marina when we had all those "fun-runs" on a hot day.

the real test came at Thunderhill when the temps kept climbing north of 245°.

Now the cooler is in. No problems anymore.

180° on the street and 210° on the track. No tin...


KT

QUOTE (trekkor @ Feb 17 2006, 10:33 PM)

On mine all was well until that one time at Marina when we had all those "fun-runs" on a hot day. the real test came at Thunderhill when the temps kept climbing north of 245°. Now the cooler is in. No problems anymore. 180° and 210° on the track. No tin... KT

sit in traffic. stay stationary...

webers make more power off hot hair.... right.....

QUOTE

sit in traffic. stay stationary...

*NEWSFLASH* This just in-
Traffic has slowed out of turn 4 and it's stop and go out of 7. Expect slower lap times until you exit 11.

Ahhhhh!


KT

I guess Trekkor is telling us something

I know quite a few folks that run track cars with out tin and do just fine.
Probably not a good idea for a street/daily driver car though

QUOTE (trekkor @ Feb 17 2006, 10:56 PM)

QUOTE sit in traffic. stay stationary... *NEWSFLASH* This just in- Traffic has slowed out of turn 4 and it's stop and go out of 7. Expect slower lap times until you exit 11. Ahhhhh! KT

you do street drive your car... and have posted video. to corraborate

if it aint 100% track car... buy the effin tin..... otherwise save that few lbs of weight.....



gee....no brainer

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Feb 18 2006, 06:19 AM)

I would suggest: Remove the air deflectors and do Anderson's recommended cuts on them.....and put em' back on, of course ...

JP -Just cleaning my cylinders at present. Draw back of an aircooled engine is all the crap that gets blown over the cylinders -if it oily too the crap sticks. Think the oil was blowing out of the breather somehow

Is it possible to remove tin & trim without removing cylinders/heads etc?

My 2.7 doesn't have an external cooler.

100 degrees in the summer over the grapevine.

But it does have the tin and everything will be nice and clean.

James:
I don't know which engine you have.
It is possible on a 6, tho I can't see the value of removing it's tin to clean out shittage. I know zip about T-4s.

As to the great tin contraversy, my .02.
Cooling is everything to air cooled engines....duh.
Anything one can do to keep one at it's proper operating temp is money in the bank. From a reliability stand point, hot engines wear faster. Hot engines make less power due to this wear. Sprint racers (which most club racers are) get away with "stuff" like no tin for a couple reasons.

1) With a half hour sprint, the cooling system doesn't get a chance to heat soak. Even at that, I hear that often these cars go slower towards the end of the sprint due to lack of cooling.

2) A true race motor is rebuilt every 40-50 hrs....or less.

Tin keeps the hot side hot & the cool side cool. It also keeps shittage from finding it's way up to the top of the engine where it does no good at all. Near as I can figure, racers leave it off for access.

I ain't saying you have to run tin.....you can do whatever you bloody well please...it's your car, yada,
but unless you can come up with another good reason to leave it off, I'll hang with my .02.

I'm with JP on this. I wouldn't run any 914 without engine tin, but what do I know

As far as an external cooler, if you are only doing autox you'll probably be fine without one.

There's a couple other things you can do to help, like the later style cam tower oil fittings with the smaller orfices, making sure you've got the plastic flaps on the bottom, and a full grill engine lid, which is all stuff you'd probably do anyway.

QUOTE (Headrage @ Feb 18 2006, 07:18 AM)

My 2.7 doesn't have an external cooler. 100 degrees in the summer over the grapevine. But it does have the tin and everything will be nice and clean.

I assume that's 100 C That's good.
2.7Ls never had a problem sheding heat, right?

When I swaped in my 2.7L I never considered NOT adding an aux cooler.....tho the cost (for a CSOB) was substantial.
I didn't have one on the 2.4L T motor and didn't think I needed it....tho I plumbed the oil lines with SS lines JIC I need to reconsider......

As usual great debate and you have got me reconsidering. Thanks!

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Feb 18 2006, 07:46 AM)

As usual great debate and you have got me reconsidering. Thanks!

The 2.4E is a borderline deal. Your temp gauge
will be your best friend for a while after you have it running.
The good news is that getting a 2.4L too hot isn't a catastrophic occurance (not that you wanna do it more than once) like it can be on a 2.7L due to the Brial cyls not expanding at the rate of the all aluminum jobbies.

Doing an aux oil cooler *right* is spendy. Forgive me if I sound elitest about this, but I don't use second rate parts....even if can get them dirt cheep. I gotta make allowances for my second rate installation . First cabin used parts are a godsend tho

My $0.02

External oil cooler.

- For AX ... not needed.

- For high speed highway driving in hot climates ... a very good idea.

- For most any track time over 10 minutes ... REQUIRED.

A 911 motor is some expensive $#!+ to rebuild - I'd add a cooler as extra insurance/longevity. Sorry to

I also would run carbs, but don't take that as a - it's just my 2 cents.

QUOTE

The 2.4E is a borderline deal.

If it were 'my' borderline deal... I'd have one on there.

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Feb 18 2006, 04:28 PM)

James: I don't know which engine you have. It is possible on a 6...

This is for a carbed 2.4 six that I'm preparing to install. I thought that removal of the tin was obstructed by the crankcase bolts. Removal is to perform the tinware mods as described in Bruce Andersons book.

QUOTE (thesey914 @ Feb 18 2006, 10:36 AM)

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Feb 18 2006, 04:28 PM) James: I don't know which engine you have. It is possible on a 6... This is for a carbed 2.4 six that I'm preparing to install. I thought that removal of the tin was obstructed by the crankcase bolts. Removal is to perform the tinware mods as described in Bruce Andersons book.

I think we're talking at cross purposes here.
There are 2 kinds of tin floatin' about in this mess.
The outside engine tin in the engine room and the air deflector tin in between the cylinders.

If you remove the FG shroud, you can access & remove the air deflectors to make your cuts....spring clips are all that hold them on.....they come out the bottom so headers could be a problem. Anderson says this mod is good for a 20 deg temp drop, IIRC. Cool is..ah...cool.

QUOTE (fiid @ Feb 18 2006, 08:51 AM)

A 911 motor is some expensive $#!+ to rebuild - I'd add a cooler as extra insurance/longevity. Sorry to I also would run carbs, but don't take that as a - it's just my 2 cents.

Buh. What I meant to say was that I would not run carbs. I'm not sure I'd run MFI either, although it does have some serious plusses to it.

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Feb 18 2006, 07:45 PM)

If you remove the FG shroud, you can access & remove the air deflectors to make your cuts....spring clips are all that hold them on.....they come out the bottom so headers could be a problem.

that and the pushrod tubes....(calling them pushrod tubes is bound to p*ss JP off)