I am looking for a high qulity cartoon or kid looking 914 graphic I thought I saw one floating around

any one got one they wouldn't mind me using for some tshirts for my kids?

hey Mike,

I don't really mind that you're using the 914 outline in your "chicago contingent" logo on the club website, but please don't sell shirts and whatnot with the 914 outline on it (it's copyrighted material)
thanks!

Agressive admin alert!

Look I love you guys, and I am not one to break the law. But cool it. I have seen the 914 outline lots of other places and long before this site was "it". So your ownership rights are a bit tenuous.

But re-read the post. He is looking for a cartoonish 914 to make a shirt for his kid. Don't be a kill-joy.

The guy selling the "No Cones" Hats also included a little sticker, maybe he will allow you to use his artwork?
Also there was some cartoon type T shirts on e-bay occasionally.

One of the members did this one a while back

QUOTE (StratPlayer @ Feb 19 2006, 06:56 PM)

One of the members did this one a while back

That's my artwork. Please don't make shirts with that either. I'm in the process of setting that up myself.

jeroen....

just so you know I didn't create the logo for the chicago contingemt another member did ( see the chicago contengent thread ) I have no idea where he got the 914 outline or if he used yours and modified it... if you have questions about the origin please speak with him , he presented us with the logo and said we could use it .


oh and I too have seen the outline many places other than here ... I don't know if they are slightly different and that is how they are avoiding infringing on your copyright

I don't want to step on your toes on this .. but I honestly figured he may have started with yours and altered it to avoid such things...

the shirts are at no profit what so ever just tring to get a little group going...

the shirts are just listed that way to make it easier ... it's not really a store that is being advertised a business .....

please let me know what becomes of the discussion between you and the logo creator ..I will try and get in touch w/ him as well

Pretty hard to copyright an outline of a silhouette of an automobile that is over 30 years old.
How many thousands of similar artwork have been done over that time. Kind of like the thousands of 911 outlines out there.

Just wondering

I know that anyone that has put in the time to do one, wants to keep the rights to it, but wouldn't you need to compare them very closely before assuming someone has copied yours?

the logo is posted right there in the chicago contingent thread if you want a good large version of it to inspect .....

again I really don't want to infrindge on your copyright

but he seemed to have put a lot of time in to that logo and obviously knows logo design / photoshop( at least to me ) so that's why I assumed that he had taken and altered the outline by just shear CYI factor and what I saw as an apparent background in graphic design ..

FYI the it is a different outline than what is used on the club site .. main alteration I see is the high point of the windshield .. yours comes to a point the one in the logo is smoothed out and steamlined ....

front bumper is also solid on the logo we are using and yours is more of an outline... those seem to be the most previlant differances

QUOTE (ChicagoChris)

Agressive admin alert!

What's so agressive about "please"
Your "admin booh-booh" is soooo pathetic

And yeah... I can see the outline is REAL different and completely original
Excellent job

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Feb 19 2006, 07:51 PM)

QUOTE (ChicagoChris) Agressive admin alert! What's so agressive about "please" Your "admin booh-booh" is soooo pathetic And yeah... I can see the outline is REAL different and completely original Excellent job

ChicagoChris, I can't believe that you're so quick to discount someone's right to protect their own hard work. Is it so hard to ask permission? I think these artists are just asking for a little respect.

Hi guys. this is Nick. I am sorry if there is a misunderstanding about the 914 font graphic,and the car side view graphic. I can tell you this, the 914 graphic is not a 100% Porsche Font,because I built it and did not have correct Porsche art work of the font. Now if there is still a problem I can alway adjust it. The car side view graphic is no way someone elses design, I built the curves with thick,and thin areas ,and created a different flowing shape. If someone feels it's their design than overlay it with yours,and show me. Remember no one is getting paid.

After all that I corrected the city skyline with the blue images. I am hoping I cleared up any problems.

Nick.

I think it's a nice logo... but from an untrained eye appears based on Jeroen's original work.

I don't think I've ever heard him say no to someone that asked to use it... he'd just like the courtesy of being asked.

I guess courtesy is going the way of common sense these days.

Sorry to see this thread, dude.

-Rusty

I really feel crappy about this whole thing .. I didn't directly make the logo but was apart of the group ... I didn't know this was a personal design of someone either ..

I apprceiate the art and the work put into art ... I myself am not an artist and found the alteration of the logo a different slant on a great design -- not tring to slight anyone here ...

had I known this was someone's design I would have tried to clear it .. hell look at the chicago contingent thread .... I asked nick If I could use his logo for the shirts --asking is not an issue

as for the logo I was just thing to get a little chicagoland area community going , that's it.. no more .. it is that innocent... we wanted to get some shirts made up for that little group , no one else ...

no one has the cash to front a run of shirts so the web site seemed a good alternative.. IT IS NOT A STORE .. same price as if any of you would log on and create a shirt... NO PROFIT

I really do feel bad for this and am tring to make things as right as possible

oh and and does any one have a cartoonish 914 design I can use to make a shirt for my 3 boys with ......that is what this thread started as

30 year old cars....
100 wanna' be artists hanging around here.
5000 do-it-yourselfers members

I took a pic of mine and, in photoshop, traced the outline in a new "layer" and used the layer.

BTW: love the change of line thickness's in the silouette above...

"Ice Ice baby".... Just add an extra beat to a classic song and call it your own. Bowie's "Pressure" and Vanilla Ice....

if it's three shirts for your kids....just print them

What the FUCK is wrong with some people...


So you go to visit your neighbour, you jump up and down on his couch, you slap his wife and kids around and fuck his dog
On your way out you steal his TV...

Then your neighbour kindly asks his TV back, and you say...
"hey man, don't come bitching here... this is my TV, there's thousands of these around, it may look just like yours, but it's really mine"

I'm sooooo fucking fed up with shitheads that think they can come here, act as if they own the place and think they can do here what ever their demented little minds can come up with...

Go back to rennlist, pelican parts or what ever rock you crawled from and see if they take your crap there
Or even better... start yer own pathetic BBS and go stink up yer own place

So bottom line...
You can play nice or you can get the fuck outta here

Any questions?

We sure seem to live in a time where the smallest infraction leads to the most explosive response.

Close your eyes Take a deep breath slowly exhale and count to 10.

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Feb 20 2006, 06:44 AM)

What the FUCK is wrong with some people... So you go to visit your neighbour, you jump up and down on his couch, you slap his wife and kids around and fuck his dog On your way out you steal his TV... Then your neighbour kindly asks his TV back, and you say... "hey man, don't come bitching here... this is my TV, there's thousands of these around, it may look just like yours, but it's really mine" I'm sooooo fucking fed up with shitheads that think they can come here, act as if they own the place and think they can do here what ever their demented little minds can come up with... Go back to rennlist, pelican parts or what ever rock you crawled from and see if they take your crap there Or even better... start yer own pathetic BBS and go stink up yer own place So bottom line... You can play nice or you can get the fuck outta here Any questions?

Settle down!

When I posted the agressive admin alert my tounge was firmly planted in cheek. Sorry you didn't get the joke. But now I am just angry.

A guy want a shirt for his kid and you go straight to the use of a silouette in a signiture. Seems to me you are the one making an issue out of this. Refering to your use of please. While polite, you really weren't asking were you? So stop the poor me BS.

And just for the record you really are over the top with the whole neighbor, wife, dog thing. I don't know what your home life is like but don't take it out on us.

I have to say as a fellow artist - I see where Jeroen is coming from. Maybe his response was a little over the top - but I too have felt the rather "nonchalant" attitude of someone else using my artwork without permission - and it infuriates me.

I'm an illustrator by trade - and to have my designs or artwork stolen (make no bones about it - that's truly what it is) for use without my permission or without being properly compensated would bring out a similar (probably more violent) reaction from me as well.

I don't think Jeeroen is all that out of line.

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Feb 20 2006, 06:44 AM)

What the FUCK is wrong with some people... So you go to visit your neighbour, you jump up and down on his couch, you slap his wife and kids around and fuck his dog On your way out you steal his TV... Then your neighbour kindly asks his TV back, and you say... "hey man, don't come bitching here... this is my TV, there's thousands of these around, it may look just like yours, but it's really mine" I'm sooooo fucking fed up with shitheads that think they can come here, act as if they own the place and think they can do here what ever their demented little minds can come up with... Go back to rennlist, pelican parts or what ever rock you crawled from and see if they take your crap there Or even better... start yer own pathetic BBS and go stink up yer own place So bottom line... You can play nice or you can get the fuck outta here Any questions?

Chill Jeroen

Sorry not everyone knows its YOUR design. I don't want to start the whole copy right thread again, but to me this just goes to prove that there needs to be someway to prove copyrighted image designs.

I visited a few graphic design classes at my "prestigious" art school and it is an involved and rigorous program.

Software has made it "easy" for people to do home designs and modifications but the development of balance and character of lines shapes and colors are best done by trained artists. Software is a great tool but don't dis the folks who sweat the four+ years.

On the other hand, had I not read so many threads I wouldn't know who designed the "914club profile" without the "c" circled or a name below it...

QUOTE (sk8kat1 @ Feb 19 2006, 07:28 PM)

FYI the it is a different outline than what is used on the club site .. main alteration I see is the high point of the windshield .. yours comes to a point the one in the logo is smoothed out and steamlined ....

Oh, well that makes all the difference in the world

QUOTE (ChicagoChris)

Settle down!

Settle down? Heck no! I'm just getting warmed up....

QUOTE

When I posted the agressive admin alert my tounge was firmly planted in cheek.  Sorry you didn't get the joke.

great joke your majesty... and excellent timing!

QUOTE

But now I am just angry.

you're angry? why? you were just kidding, right?
whom ever the shoe fits...

QUOTE

A guy want a shirt for his kid and you go straight to the use of a silouette in a signiture.

Well... exquize me for hi-jacking this thread

QUOTE

Seems to me you are the one making an issue out of this

you bet I'm making an issue out of this!

QUOTE

Refering to your use of please.  While polite, you really weren't asking were you?  So stop the poor me BS.

And poor me? Fuck that!
I'd like to see your reaction when someone comes over to your place, steels your shit, rubs it in your face and starts claiming that it's his...

QUOTE

And just for the record you really are over the top with the whole neighbor, wife, dog thing.  I don't know what your home life is like but don't take it out on us.

My home life is just fine. Thanks for asking... Oh, you weren't asking, were you?

And for the record... yeah, I'll take it out on everyone that tries to rip off my artwork.

You got some fucking nerve!

QUOTE (neo914-6 @ Feb 20 2006, 08:16 AM)

On the other hand, had I not read so many threads I wouldn't know who designed the "914club profile" without the "c" circled or a name below it...

Not picking on anyone, but maybe its time for Jeroen and other designers here to add that to their art work.

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Feb 19 2006, 06:55 PM)

hey Mike, I don't really mind that you're using the 914 outline in your "chicago contingent" logo on the club website, but please don't sell shirts and whatnot with the 914 outline on it (it's copyrighted material) thanks!

Jeroen, I'm just trying to understand the issue. The Chicago graphic is clearly different from the club logo. Are you claiming that your graphic covers the concept of a 914 silhouette?

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ44.html

I just ran this past a copyright and patent lawyer. No charge to me thank goodness, as she is my girlfriend and a PCA member too.

She brings up an interesting point.

The two are different and both based on a design that Porsche owns.

She says that she would not take the case of the person protesting and she would vigorously defend the accused. (she adds as she walks out the door that it would cost him $750.00/billable hour)

Jeroen said the art belonged to him in an earlier post in this thread and did NOT give permission to anyone to use it for any purpose. That should be good enough but the thread rambles on and now those wanting something (original art work) for nothing that belongs to Jeroen are pissing at Jeroen's right of refusal and now trying to smear Jeroen as the jerk.
My advise is draw your own and if it is good enough for others to want to use, send them a copy by personal attachment email.
A more original idea is to let your kid draw his view of your own 914 and put it on a shirt. It's original, honest and gives the shirt a heck of a lot more pride for them to wear it.
Remember:
U.S. Treasury won't let you copy engraving printing plates either. Do and you go to jail. Same issue.

Mike Cool
Memphis

QUOTE (Rotten Robby @ Feb 20 2006, 11:11 AM)

...The two are different and both based on a design that Porsche owns. ...

And we artists have been ripping it off for Decades... I did a series of Porsche sihloetts in the early 80s for my local PCA region, that included the 911, 914, 928, and 356 that was strikingly similar to the club logo...

I have to remind my Junior Artists all the time that their designs, Yet very original, are sometimes based on someone elses original concept. Its a hard lesson to learn.

i don't want to get in the middle of this one but have we thought of a royalty system to use with jeron's stuff or the like, licenseing agreement , buck a shirt, use on the site as a freeby(????) aproval plus some bucks..Nobody is going to get rich here but there could be some control and some creative club stuff????

While the reactions were strong I think everyone overall is just trying to have some fun and belong to the club. I even had an idea for the club logo on the suby trannies end plate.....no response and didn't want to end up here..

Is it generic want to limit use or is $$..The first paragraph I think could cover both.

I'll duck now!!!

It is time for Jeroen to just hide. Several posts (lawyers, artists) have tackled his "ownership" rights and as it turns out you don't.

I am sorry you feel wronged. It is clear that was never the intent. But you continue to attack spewing profanity and anger in all directions. Admin are here to keep the peace not incite riot, whatever your personal feelings are.

I hope other admins are reading this. Time to police your own.

QUOTE (ChicagoChris @ Feb 20 2006, 10:19 AM)

Admin are here to keep the peace not incite riot, whatever your personal feelings are. I hope other admins are reading this. Time to police your own.

Dude, this has Shit to do with admins.

Jeroen made the art work himself. He doesnt want people to make money off his design. He doesnt mind people making something for themselfs or for their kids. Just check with him and make sure he says that its ok to use. You

IMHO This has nothing to do with law, but to do with respect.

You dont care what Jeroen did to make that, weather it took him 5 mins on his first try, or 5 days of perfecting. You should respect that he put the effort and made it.

Being an artist myself, I know how long it takes to make something the way you like it.
And I respect others for the time and effort that they put into their work. I think you should to.

QUOTE (ChicagoChris @ Feb 20 2006, 07:19 PM)

It is time for Jeroen to just hide. Several posts (lawyers, artists) have tackled his "ownership" rights and as it turns out you don't. I am sorry you feel wronged. It is clear that was never the intent. But you continue to attack spewing profanity and anger in all directions. Admin are here to keep the peace not incite riot, whatever your personal feelings are. I hope other admins are reading this. Time to police your own.

Me? Hide? Man... that's rich

You just don't know when to quit, do you?
You're getting real close to start pissing me off...
So be smart and back the fuck off

QUOTE (mrdezyne @ Feb 20 2006, 11:27 AM)

QUOTE (ChicagoChris @ Feb 20 2006, 10:19 AM) Admin are here to keep the peace not incite riot, whatever your personal feelings are. I hope other admins are reading this.  Time to police your own.

too. Come on guys, Jeroen sorry you feel wronged, like it was said before that was never the intent, at least from what I have read.

Now this is a honest question. I read the copyright law (http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ44.html) so how can a outline (silloett sp?) of a car be copyrighted by anyone other than the car manufacturer? I mean all those polo shirts and stuff with the outline of the 911, 356, .... are not those images copyrighted by Porsche? I'm not trying to stir the pot, its and honest question.

And for the record, Jeroen I think your logo is great and if it was me and I had the rights to it I would market it and make some $$ for myself.

QUOTE (itsa914 @ Feb 20 2006, 08:32 AM)

QUOTE (neo914-6 @ Feb 20 2006, 08:16 AM) On the other hand, had I not read so many threads I wouldn't know who designed the "914club profile" without the "c" circled or a name below it... Not picking on anyone, but maybe its time for Jeroen and other designers here to add that to their art work.

The "c" hasn't been needed since 1989.

The lawyers point was that the design belongs to Porsche. Any logo based on it infringes on their copyright. Doubtful the sleeping giant cares though. If they did they would have swooped in and taken #4 and crushed it since they don't sell prototypes.

WOW!

Jeroen - The original post asked a rather polite yes or no question. All you had to do was answer no to the use of the 914club logo. A reasonable reason why would have been courteous, but not required. You could have even said that you are touchy about the use of it and it lights you up to have things copied without permission.

I will say that my initial reading of the post was that a guy wanted some 914 graphics that the owner/designer was willing to let him use. Any owner/designer. And that it wasn't for profit. He asked nicely and found that he had opened Pandora's Box.

Your flaming, no incinerating him, is beyond the pale. An apology to him in a posted (i.e. snail mail) letter would be the least you should do. And an apolopy to the rest of us exposed to your red-faced rant should be posted immediately in all the folders on this site lest we think that we too may one day be exposed to such treatment for whatever may hit the wrong nerve in you.

Artists - Did Andy ("If you can't draw, trace") Warhol ever pay Campbell's Soup royalties for using their can in his artwork? or Porsche for his 356 prints? He may have or they may have thanked him for the free advertising.

Also, has anyone here said "I spent my time researching an easier fix for your car, took the time to write it up, photograph it, edit it and posted it for the benefit of all", then said: "But you have ask me/pay me to use this procedure on your car as I have intellectual ownership of it." Designs and Logos aren't the only creative work posted on this or any other website.

If you post your work on an open forum and don't want to lose control of your work, say so or concider not posting. And follow up with the standard business practices that are designed to protect such things.

Finally, Mike Cool has the best solution of all - let the kids be your artists. Teach'em to do, not to watch.

Fin

i think this thread needs some cooling off. on both sides ...

closed for the public. i really hope this can be worked out behind the scenes without alienating 5000 people in the process ...

you guys need to smoke some and drink a few and then spend some time on a mountain


Andy

I'm abusing my admin powers (someone please slap me on the wrist!) by posting in this closed thread...

First of all... the copyright issue...
who says I can't make an artistic impression of a 914 without infringing copyrights by Porsche?
please tell me where it says so in copyright laws... If that were the case, you couldn't draw ANYTHING
Believe me, if one company is on top of it's copyrights and trademarks, it's Porsche (dealt with them too)

Second... Copyright law is pretty simple
bottom line, the person who made it owns the copyright over what ever he made (can be a drawing, a picture, a painting, a written text, well you get the idea) untill he passes it on to someone else
so without any consent, you CAN NOT USE SOMEONE ELSES WORK... Period!

You don't have to take my word for it, but let me tell you this is not the first time I had to deal with this issue

So... Do I own the copyright to the concept of a 914 outline/silhouette? Heck no... there's lots of variations on this theme. But the one here on the site is mine and so is the copyright on that particular one.
It's distinguishingly different from others out there (except the one used in the chicago-logo).
Check the design Johannes made for his site (914garage.com). He did an excellent job and it's very different from mine. I have no issues with any of that.

Then there's the issue that it nowhere says it is copyrighted... well your wrong
At the bottom of every single page of this website you will find a copyright statement
(and even if there wasn't one, it would still be copyrighted)

Third (or is it fourth?)... Me being out of line
Do you really think so? Well, I disagree
I noticed someone was using my design in his logo. I noticed for the first time in this thread through sk8kat1's signature which not only shows the logo, but also has 2 links to an online shop (cafe press) where these logo's are being sold on various types of clothing

I kindly asked him not to sell any items protraiing my design. Nothing offensive about it
Heck, I even told him it was ok to use the logo here on the site, just not sell any items with it
Is that really too much to ask?
My request had NOTHING to do with his initial question in this thread... (some people should learn to read before they start slapping their keyboard)

Now I can understand that not everybody knows this stuff is copyrighted (or missed the copyright statement on the site)
And that is exactly why I posted and asked him to stop using the design.
Nothing out of line, I was calm, collected and polite.

A normal reaction would have been:
"oh well, I didn't know that... I'll change the design and take care of things"
No harm done...

But instead, I get a million responses (including from the person who claims he designed the 914 outline himself) that I'm a whiner, there's "thousands" of 914 outlines out there (can very well be, but those are all different and this one is MINE), blah, blah, blah...
Biggest joke of it all is the claim that the outline used in the chicago-logo is an original one and has nothing to do with mine... TOTAL BULLSHIT! A three year old can see it's a rip off!

So... you come to MY PLACE (yes, I consider this MY place, not mine alone, but still... there were 2 people involved with the initial conception of this place, and I was one of them), you steal MY STUFF and when I (kindly) ask you not to, you tell ME to piss off and lie to my face that you didn't steal anything...
Yeah that rubs me the wrong way. You fucking bet it does! And you can bet I won't let it pass unnoticed

Is this about money? Yes and no...
On two seperate occasions I was contacted by companies who wanted to buy the copyright of the 914 outline that you see here on the site. They offered serious money for it too (into the 4 figures)
On both occasions I declined the offer, because I wanted to keep it exclusive for this club/website

Am I expecting eternal gratitude for that? No, I expect exactly nothing out of that. I just expect my copyrights to be respected, that's all
So if you think you can copy my design, put it on a product and sell it (with a profit or not) and expect me to sit on my ass and look at it happening, you're in for a big effin' surprise

If the logo is used on any club related item, it goes through me and the other admins for aproval first
If any money is made on things like this, it is used to support site and nothing else

So, agian... am I out of line? No, I don't think so...
I may not have been subtle with my wording, (sometimes you need some force to get through the thick skulls out there) but nowhere was I out of line
If you're offended by me using the word "fuck", well, maybe you can just slightly begin to imagine how "offended" I am over all this crap...

And the words "play nice or get the fuck outta here"
What's wrong with that?
Everyone is more then welcome here as long as they "play nice" (and our play nice goes a long way). If you don't have the intention to play nice, you have no business here what so ever and you can... well, you got the idea

To wrap this up:
Those concerened... again... please, for your sake and mine change the design of your Chicago Contingent logo!
I expect your logo to be changed by the end of this week

That's all I'm gonna say about this. I think it's more than clear.
If you think it's not, start at page one of this thread and read it all again, and again, and again, 'till it is...
If you still feel you have "issues" over this, feel free to click on the buttons below my post to PM or e-mail me

cheers,

Jeroen