I'm thinking of trading over my BMW 2002 for a 1970 914. Very little rust, nothing in the bad areas. Needs the seats recovered and some other minor repairs, but mechanically it's all there.

Here's my Q = with the 1.7, am I immediately going to end up looking for a replacement engine? I'm not planning to go bigger, necessarily, but I am nervous about stuff breaking and having a lack of decent repair parts. Would it be better to hold out for a later year model with a 2.0 and the better shifter?

I'm trading one project for another, so I suppose I'm not really out any money (besides whatever I decide to put into the 914) and this will likely be more of a project and fun ride rather than a daily driver.

Excited to be getting my second P-car!

Thanks!

Do it!!!

Sounds like a good deal. Rust is the only deal breaker and it sounds like you've checked this one out. You can swap the late sideshifter tranny stuff in without any cutting or mods. Just bolts right in, so don't worry about that.

Go for it!

I have a 70 and love it! When I was in the market for a 914 there were those that said hold out for that 73 or 74 2.0L and others that said find the most solid car you can with in your budget. I ended up doing the later and am very happy. I will admit that the first thing I did was convert to a side shifter. I drove around with the tail shifter for a year and even with new bushings it was like stirring a pot of jello.

Just remember you can always drop in a 2.0L and update other parts later if you feel the need. I say start with a solid car no matter what year and go from there.

Oh, and early cars are lighter.

I've got a 72, with a 2.0...... and a tailshifter.

Before I bought it, the tranny was cleaned up, all the bushings were replaced, etc. Been 3 years, no complaints at all.

Most all the disadvantages of the early models can be dealt with, here are a few I can think of:
1) Tailshift -> sideshift conversion
2) Passenger seat backbad only -> weld in seat rails
3) 1.7-> 2.0 bolt in

I love the early models for the chrome bumpers and the bare-minimum feel. Parts for the early years are sometimes harder to come by, but if you aren't worried about a concourse resoration the other years do have some parts (interior, body) that work just fine.

I'm dealing with rustoration on my '72, and let me tell you a simple formula: square inches of rust penetration x 10 = $$$ x 100

So check out every square inch possible for rust! Pull back the rugs, under the ebrake handle, under the pedals (bolt heads on gas pedal rusty?), trunks, under the spare tire, etc etc etc

Good luck

A 70 MY car with a "W" 1.7L engine is not going to need upgrading right away. I thought my 1.7L was very nice. pushed the car rather quickly.

I drove Hotdoggers car when he stopped in. I think it even made more power. Memory is a terrible thing to lose.
But 32MPG sure was cool.

Britain Smith is up in your area with an early car with a stock 1.7 and used to spank many a 2.0 powered 914's at the auto-x....

you need to drive one to make sure it's something you can live with....

Hey Mike, where did you go to Jr. High School?

As to your question, no more difficult to get parts for a 1.7 than a 2.0.

1.7s run cooler and last longer than 2.0s. Just run it until you get a ride in a V8 conversion, then convert it.

One thing I don't like about early cars that nobody has mentioned.. No provision on the firewall for reel-type seatbelts.

A plus for the early cars is they didn't have the engine compartment water trapping sound pad, so rust is usually not as bad.

Creature comforts are terrible on 70... window regulators are terrible... tail shifter...etc...

QUOTE (ChrisNPDrider @ Feb 22 2006, 12:53 PM)

Most all the disadvantages of the early models can be dealt with, here are a few I can think of: 1) Tailshift -> sideshift conversion 2) Passenger seat backbad only -> weld in seat rails 3) 1.7-> 2.0 bolt in I love the early models for the chrome bumpers and the bare-minimum feel. Parts for the early years are sometimes harder to come by, but if you aren't worried about a concourse resoration the other years do have some parts (interior, body) that work just fine.

I love my 70. A PO did install a 73 2.0L and side shift trans. Its has been modified a little since I got it 2+ years ago

Photo OP

Buy the best rust free and complete car you can find for your budget.

Though you said you've checked for rust, verify the area around the jack receivers. If they are rusted out, do a VERY detailed examination of the longtitudinal in that area, because once tin worms begin in that area, it can spread rapidly. It's fixable, but expensive (or a lot of your labor if you have welding equipment).

Eric

I have a 70, and it had a 1.7 in it. Great running and driving car. Not the fastest thing on earth, but neither is a 2002, so it wont be a huge shock. I prefer the early cars because of weight. I like the non adjustable passenger seat, and the lighter doors, the windows are not great, but the are very liveable. The tailshifter is ok, not bad to drive around, but tough to drive hard w/.

I'd say go for it, the only hard thing to do w/ these cars is deal w/ rust. Everything else is bolt on.

BJH

Well, I've driven it and a few other 914s and the speed / power thing is not a super priority for me. Still feels like a go-kart on rails. Like I said, the rust appears very minimal and the PO had his mechanic routinely check it out. Fairly low miles and the PPO apparently kept the thing garaged for most of its life. The only "major" spot that I noticed was under the passenger carpet where there were a few pinholes in otherwise solid metal.

I've heard the grind into first or second gear is kinda normal for the early cars, although I was getting the hang of it after a few minutes and minimizing. Nothing much different than my 912, where I was so nervous with the shifting noises until I figured out the proper balance.

One other dumb question that I haven't been able to find on a search:

1. Do the consoles and other interior bits from newer cars fit into a 1970?
2. Wheels are those Pedrinis, I think, but is there some limit on offset / backspacing? If anything, I would go with the Fuchs wheels in the future, but the BMW folks are always griping about offset this and offset that, so I didn't know if it was a problem with 914s.

I guess that was two questions.

Junior high school? It was up in Tacoma, WA.

Just a long shot. I taught/coached a Mike McGrath 30+ years ago in Beaverton. Since you are local, thought maybe it was you.

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 22 2006, 02:19 PM)

Britain Smith is up in your area with an early car with a stock 1.7 and used to spank many a 2.0 powered 914's at the auto-x.... you need to drive one to make sure it's something you can live with....

Yo!

Yep, I drive a 1.7L Tailshift! It is my daily driver and I love it. I have ZERO issues with the tailshift and don't agree that it is a huge priority on switching out. Nor do I agree that you need a 2.0L to be a fast driver. I can give you a whole list of folks who have inquired about my car after auto-x both here in Portland and in California.

If you need any advice on the car or want a second opinion, there are several guys up here who can help you out...including me. I would talk to Craig at CAMP914, he probably already knows about the car.

Where about in Portland are you? I am over of the West side in Hillsboro.

-Britain

By the way, I have a '69 912 also. What year is yours?

-Britain

Britain,

I'm over in Rose City. I have a '68 912 that I'm working on (practicing my body work / painting skills and I REALLY need the practice).

If'n I had a two-car garage, mine would soon look just like yours. I think I've probably seen your 914 around in Hillsboro. I drive over to the courthouse fairly regularly during the year and I've spotted two orange 914s, an identical white '67 or '68 912, and someone's POS 911 SC. Ha.

Asking around here if trading a 2002 for a 914 is a lot like going to the crack house and asking if crack is good... You're unlikely to get any negative answers!

BTW, I agree with Britain. And I am one of the 2.0 drivers that he (used to) beat unmercifully with his "lowly" 1.7 car... By a very large margin, most of the time!

--DD

I wasn't asking so much about the trade, as I've kinda committed myself to that. I really like the 2002 (okay, I've learned to like it as I've spent hours fixing up the interior), but I just didn't know if the 1970 is a "bad" first 914 experience. For a straight trade, I'm satisfied. I'll probably end up putting in just as much money fixing the 914 as I would completing the 2002, but in the end I'll have a car I can drive to WCC!!!

Of course, it helps if you know it'll be a project going in instead of finding out later! And to hear the 912 crowd, you're nuts to buy one unless you spend $$$ and get a pristine model from the get go. I think sometimes we / they forget that part of the fun of these cars is the ability to actually fix minor problems instead of towing it to the local dealership.

As mentioned above, everything is bolt on from a newer car. center console etc.
Pedrini is a nice wheel only 2 pounds heavier than a FUCHS but VERY strong and I have never seen a bent one. I got a spare early Pedrini when you are ready.
all Porsche 914 alloys have the same backspace so no worries there and if te car still has early front hubs than ALL the 4 lug wheels fit including the fancy shmansy FUCHS.

So you better go get it before I do.