What are the V8 guys using. I know a guy locally who runs a Hewland 5 sp. What does everyone else run?

And do you guys all align your engines laterally?

Noraa sequential trans from Skline industry's in Costa Mesa.

And ya have to run em in from the back side. Won't fit any other way.

Twystd1

How much do they run?

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 26 2006, 09:55 PM)

What are the V8 guys using.

930, if you can swing the scrilla ....

see the 914 breakfast thread for pics ...
Andy

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 26 2006, 10:55 PM)

What are the V8 guys using. I know a guy locally who runs a Hewland 5 sp. What does everyone else run? And do you guys all align your engines laterally?

transmissions I've seen used on V8's:

stock 914 transmission
modified 914 transmission (billet inter. plate, H gear)
915 (ring/pinion flipped)
930 (ring/pinion flipped or can be run upside down)
ZF box from a Pantera
Boxster (seen pictures, he's here on the list)

QUOTE

And do you guys all align your engines laterally?

huh??

centerline of crank is the same, of the 901 converions, transmission moved back 1.5" from stock...not sure about the other ones...I'd imagine the same for the P-car type transmissions

That'll never work. What else ya got?



Cost prohibitive.

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 26 2006, 10:18 PM)

Cost prohibitive

stock 901 ... they're cheap ...

you want something that lasts longer, bring $$$ ...

he might be refering to transverse trans axels, fiero, gm auto's

i second the Noraa sequential.....


mike summed it up...
901
901 beefed
915 upside down...
915 r/p flipped...
930 upside down...
930 r/p flipped....
pantera ZF
renault box....
g50 upside down.....

QUOTE (messix @ Feb 26 2006, 10:26 PM)

he might be refering to transverse trans axels, fiero, gm auto's

Yeah

I was just wondering if everyone stuck the V8 in laterally or transversally aligned. I didn't know.

Tell me about the Pantera and the renault.

And the NORAA.

I already googled it and can't find it.

Other than real Porsche transmissions - Audi (the 5000 ones are strong), boxster (audi trans in disguise) Subaru? VW bus would work but everyone thinks they must have a 5 speed for some reason, ZF and a variety of real racing transaxles that all cost $$$$

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 26 2006, 11:30 PM)

And the NORAA. I already googled it and can't find it.

maybe you spelled it backwards....

Pantera, cant find it.. holds bout 500hp



Renault. Hasnt been done yet. should hold 350-400hp


Im at 350tq with a stock 901.

Andrew

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 26 2006, 11:29 PM)

I was just wondering if everyone stuck the V8 in laterally or transversally aligned. I didn't know. Tell me about the Pantera and the renault.

have you not ever read anyones post about V8's and see pictures??

one person has put a drivetrain in "sideways", major cutting needed and not practical in my opinion...kinda like a fat dude wearing a thong, just cause it fits don't mean it's right


ZF tranny, rumor of one guy finding his for like $500, normally sell for $4K or something crazy like that to the Pantara guys....then it needs rebuilding......Renault, got to go to europe to get one, same with parts for it...not a practicle solution

ZF setup like new...

7K........

And it has a boat load of differant gear sets that are available.

Twystd1

QUOTE

sequential trans

right off the bat, that has to tell you it's a $15K to $20K transmission, and that would be without the needed options to bolt it up to your motor.......

QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Feb 26 2006, 11:40 PM)

ZF setup like new... 7K........ Twystd1

and you can get a six speed kit for anudda few G's....

go to sleep

NOPE,
A six speed ZF is 14K my price.

To rebuild a 5 speed pantera box to like new condition is 7K.
This assumes you already own one and that is the core.

Oh yeah.. And there is only ONE place, world wide, for the OE parts.

Cmon... Ask me how I know.

Twystd1

QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Feb 26 2006, 11:40 PM)

ZF setup like new... 7K........ And it has a boat load of differant gear sets that are available. Twystd1

here you go....only $15K

"but it goes to 6"

Pantera 6 speed...brand new

Hewland, modified 930/915, Mendeola, or ZF are not "cost prohibitive"

ZF soon to be tested with 700 + hp, talk about rare European boxes. One or two suppliers who set their own prices. $500 was a deal "before" they were desireable.

Renault:
Not readily available in the states...hundreds of them used in GT40 and other race replicas. You can still find used for a few hundred or rebuilt for $1500 in UK and Germany. If a UK supplier can ship them cheaply you can have a 5 speed gearbox comparable to a 915 made for mid-engine. See pic attached. A $5k Lotus new gear upgrade will get you to 500hp and cost less than the high end boxes.

Audi:
No one has adapted a manual yet but they are being considered in Europe and Australia to replace the out of production Renaults.

901:
my last survey had a few running 350-400hp with a stock 901, makes great economical sense if you don't mind operating at it's limits. The tall gearing and plate mods add a couple thousand to the price. BTW, Alpha, check my signature link on tall geared 901

Boxster:
Alan makes a good case considering the availability and reasonable price. Still no adapters on the market so you need to be a fabricator type. Here's a response from a guys who is selling a Boxster 5 speed he originally purchased for a V8 application:

QUOTE

It all depends? Torque is what kills transmissions. That is why most sports cars are small bore short stroke motors. Rev high to the horsepower with out the killing torque. But keep in mind that when engineering gear sectional width a 4 and 6 cylinder engine would have to have wider gear teeth due to a higher requirement from Moment to Shear relation. This is because the fewer the cylinder the harsher the pulse torsions stress is on a rotating mass. The v8 has a smoother pulse rotational stress. Thus the 4 cyl and 6 cyl transmissions like this have wider gears and bearings for this reason . The problem lies in the fact they still use small input and out put shafts based on the engines out put torque. (shaft that you attach your clutch to ) Most transmissions die from gear tooth breakage and pinion tooth breakage and not shaft twisting. But again these units have a bigger tooth contact patch due to the above v6 pulse issue. Bottom line is actual test usage. The Porsche transmission guy in California has told me he has had many high horse power small block v8 s put behind them without failure. So that is my 2 cents on this issue.

I am still awaiting the identity of this "Porsche transmission guy in CA"...

If you want to consider transverse, check out the Fiero or MR2 V8 conversion sites...

Bump.

More info, please.

try the search engine, this topic comes up every few months...

Anyone think of using a flipped early 944 trans? gearing is probably the same as a 915... plug the breather and fabricate a shifter bar...

944 turbo trani.. ya...

No provision for a starter...

Bellhousing doesnt have room for a clutch assembly... Its made to use a driveshaft. clutch and everything is on the engine end.


but its something I would like to use..... 944 turbo gears are perfect for a v8. nice and long, and the trani holds 400hp+


why would you have to flip it? it spins the right direction..

QUOTE (Brando @ Feb 27 2006, 01:44 AM)

Anyone think of using a flipped early 944 trans? gearing is probably the same as a 915... plug the breather and fabricate a shifter bar...

That's an Audi transmission, the early ones do have a starter area. No need to flip.

No adapters for the early Boxster/Audi 5 speed. The adapter plate for an Audi 016 is real close however. As I recall, one of the starter bolt holes and I think one other trans bolt hole doesn't line up but the rest do. I was at Kennedy Eng'g, and held their master tooling plate against it. I think if someone were to bring their Boxster/Audi 5 speed to them, they would probably make you an adapter and subsequently make it available to others'.

Mine isn't quite so simple, as I'm using an LS1 and the Audi/Getrag 01E 6 speed. To start with, the LS1 is too wide to in the crank case area to fit the starter in the transaxle starter pocket using Kennedy's flywheel (which just barely fits the Audi stuff).

WTF, Having trouble attaching a pic!!!!!!!!!

Andys

QUOTE (andys @ Feb 27 2006, 09:53 AM)

Mine isn't quite so simple, as I'm using an LS1 and the Audi/Getrag 01E 6 speed. To start with, the LS1 is too wide to in the crank case area to fit the starter in the transaxle starter pocket using Kennedy's flywheel (which just barely fits the Audi stuff). WTF, Having trouble attaching a pic!!!!!!!!! Andys

you are such a tease...post the picture already !!!!!!

I need it to hold up for at least 30 minutes under power. Would prefer longer. Racing application.

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 27 2006, 09:25 AM)

QUOTE (andys @ Feb 27 2006, 09:53 AM) Mine isn't quite so simple, as I'm using an LS1 and the Audi/Getrag 01E 6 speed. To start with, the LS1 is too wide to in the crank case area to fit the starter in the transaxle starter pocket using Kennedy's flywheel (which just barely fits the Audi stuff). WTF, Having trouble attaching a pic!!!!!!!!! Andys you are such a tease...post the picture already !!!!!!

or email it to me or someone to post it for you.

I asked KEP and they didn't seem interested in making the Box plate, time and demand or $$$ will tell...

PM me your source for these Audi/Getrag 01E 6 speed

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Feb 27 2006, 01:55 AM)

944 turbo trani.. ya... No provision for a starter... Bellhousing doesnt have room for a clutch assembly... Its made to use a driveshaft. clutch and everything is on the engine end. but its something I would like to use..... 944 turbo gears are perfect for a v8. nice and long, and the trani holds 400hp+ why would you have to flip it? it spins the right direction..

then what do they use for the 944 V8 conversions?

I know wrong type of gearbox but like you say: "just sayin"

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 27 2006, 10:54 AM)

I need it to hold up for at least 30 minutes under power. Would prefer longer. Racing application.

you've got all the info right above....what more do you want? someone to hand deliver and install it for you???

• 1st thing that needs to be addressed is budget......
  
• then HP/trq
  
• rpm expectaions
  
• budget
  
• how many gears
  
• seq. or H gearshift pattern
  
• budget
  
• what motor
  
• budget
  

oil cooling will help make any of the transmission live a happier life under track conditions

QUOTE (neo914-6 @ Feb 27 2006, 11:06 AM)

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Feb 27 2006, 01:55 AM) 944 turbo trani.. ya... No provision for a starter... Bellhousing doesnt have room for a clutch assembly... Its made to use a driveshaft. clutch and everything is on the engine end. but its something I would like to use..... 944 turbo gears are perfect for a v8. nice and long, and the trani holds 400hp+ why would you have to flip it? it spins the right direction.. then what do they use for the 944 V8 conversions? I know wrong type of gearbox but like you say: "just sayin"

Felix,

the transmission on a 944 is not directly attached to the motor....all that is needed to mate a V8 to the 944 drivetrain is a new bellhousing or an adapter plate........

If you want to put a V8 into a car transversely.. go see "Fast Freddy's V8 Conversions" for Fieros....

Then please, please please.. DON'T do that to a 914.............

If you build from scratch however.. there are quite a few domestic combinations that would make easy and interesting cars.. Take any of the Cadillac FWD Northstars, or Olds Alero setups... There was very briefly, a Ford SVT V8 Taurus of something like 3 or 4 liters....

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 27 2006, 10:08 AM)

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 27 2006, 10:54 AM) I need it to hold up for at least 30 minutes under power. Would prefer longer. Racing application. you've got all the info right above....what more do you want? someone to hand deliver and install it for you??? 1st thing that needs to be addressed is budget...... then HP/trq rpm expectaions budget how many gears seq. or H gearshift pattern budget what motor budget oil cooling will help make any of the transmission live a happier life under track conditions

becaues it's easy to type questions to the "914club search engine"...

yeah, I know the 944 won't work, just sayin...










I'm signing off for awhile, thinking of selling my id

I can confirm that the ZF Pantera box will sustain 700 + hp\Lbs of torque. Ask me how I know. My twin turbo 914 v8 puts out over 1000hp and 1000 lbs of torque. I have thrashed my ZF with 700hp + as this is the lowest setting my waste gates will allow. I can supply all the non believers with pictures and documentation of other Partera's with well over 500 and 600 HP power plants. All running through the Pantera ZF box. Hell there are more than a few 914 v8 here on 914club that put upwards of 400 HP though the ZF. Best dam box IMO, tone of gears available, five and six speed available. KE gave the Pantera ZF a bad rep with information that was not accurate. Ask any one who has one the ZF boxes. Then you will get the real story. My rant is over. Back to sleeper mode.

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 27 2006, 11:08 AM)

[QUOTE=alpha434,Feb 27 2006, 10:54 AM] I need it to 1st thing that needs to be addressed is budget...... then HP/trq rpm expectaions budget how many gears seq. or H gearshift pattern budget what motor budget

I started reading that, and thought, wait he just said budjet... then scrolled and...

got me... lol

930, strong and good gear ratios

930 iner cv's.. what are you using outboard driveability?

Thought you guys might be interested in some developments on the Audi 016 transaxle. For a mid-priced, moderate powere level (400hp or less) trans, this would seem like a viable and appropriately priced option. I'm no transaxle expert, but following the $$ tossed around for converted 915s, 930s, built up 914s, and the plethora of non-porsche options - this Audi box sure looks like it should fit into the picture somewhere!

From the GT40s.com board:
http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.p.../0/page/0#57684

The "news" is a new lower ratio R&P set will soon be available (and under testing now) making this trans better geared for a V8. From my engine speed vs road speed plots, this new ratio spreads the gearing over the 930, with slightly shorter first, and taller 5th. With a 26" tire it runs 2000rpm @70mph.

A $4K fully rebuilt trans, with a Quaife (and your core), that sounds to me like a viable option. If it will really support 400hp & 350 ft.lbs reliably, it could be a bargain! Maybe the perfect "mid range" transaxle option?

Jeff

QUOTE (neo914-6 @ Feb 27 2006, 10:03 AM)

I asked KEP and they didn't seem interested in making the Box plate, time and demand or $$$ will tell... PM me your source for these Audi/Getrag 01E 6 speed

Felix,

It was quite some time ago that I was at Kennedy. My impression is that a personal visit would likely go far towards creating some motivation or some spirit of collaboration; can't say for sure. They were quite accomodating when I was there talking with them (the guy that runs the shop; don't recall his name). There are a lot of other details to work out however, such as the clutch and throw out bearing spacing, etc. If you have a Gen I SBC, then perhaps an adapter plate for an Audi 016 transaxle would work sans the starter mounting. You could drill your own holes. I'll compare the 016 against the Boxster/Audi patterns tonight.

Posting pic's is some kind of sudden file compatibility issue that I need to work out regardless. Went from 2000 to XP and problems occurred?? I'm only starting the adapter plate fabrication, so nothing particularly interesting to post just yet. I've made a master plate.

The 01E is very difficult to find, even in Europe. I got mine better than two years ago.

Andys

The problem with the Boxster tranny is the limited torque capacity. It is rated at 280ftlbs. This will easily be overcome by a healthy V8. The Audi box really has price going for it but there is a concern about its durablilty in the long run. If the car is light wieght and you limit the abuse, it may last awhile.

In reality though, the ZF and the 930 are the only gearbox out there that can really handle good V8 power. Unless you can score some of the highend race type boxes. Or the Belt drive setup may be an option, just don't know if it would work in a 914. May be too long.

This problem is very frustrating for those of us that need a tranny that will reliably hold mucho power or many hours on the track.

QUOTE (Brett W @ Feb 28 2006, 10:56 AM)

The problem with the Boxster tranny is the limited torque capacity. It is rated at 280ftlbs. This will easily be overcome by a healthy V8. The Audi box really has price going for it but there is a concern about its durablilty in the long run. If the car is light wieght and you limit the abuse, it may last awhile. In reality though, the ZF and the 930 are the only gearbox out there that can really handle good V8 power. Unless you can score some of the highend race type boxes. Or the Belt drive setup may be an option, just don't know if it would work in a 914. May be too long. This problem is very frustrating for those of us that need a tranny that will reliably hold mucho power or many hours on the track.

What is a 901 "rated" at? What's the most power the factory ever put in front of or behind one?

It seems to me they have been known to survive with something like double the torque they were designed for. If the boxster trans is rated at 280 ft-lbs, shouldn't there be some headroom there too? Or do they really design them with no capacity left these days?

I will be using a 901 with H gear, rebuilt with mostly used parts (the best from 6 transmissions) and a homebrew electric pump, filter and cooler. My LT1 is rated at 325 ft-lbs. Only time will tell!

QUOTE (GS Guy @ Feb 28 2006, 05:12 AM)

Thought you guys might be interested in some developments on the Audi 016 transaxle. For a mid-priced, moderate powere level (400hp or less) trans, this would seem like a viable and appropriately priced option. I'm no transaxle expert, but following the $$ tossed around for converted 915s, 930s, built up 914s, and the plethora of non-porsche options - this Audi box sure looks like it should fit into the picture somewhere! From the GT40s.com board: http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.p.../0/page/0#57684 The "news" is a new lower ratio R&P set will soon be available (and under testing now) making this trans better geared for a V8. From my engine speed vs road speed plots, this new ratio spreads the gearing over the 930, with slightly shorter first, and taller 5th. With a 26" tire it runs 2000rpm @70mph. A $4K fully rebuilt trans, with a Quaife (and your core), that sounds to me like a viable option. If it will really support 400hp & 350 ft.lbs reliably, it could be a bargain! Maybe the perfect "mid range" transaxle option? Jeff

The main advantage to the Audi 016 transaxle is it's availability and cost. Though I imagine at some point they'll start to become scarce, salvage yard prices are in the $300 range. This gives plenty of room for rebuilds, upgrades, LSD, etc. Kennedy does make the adapter plates and clutch/flywheel assemblies (except for Gen III SBC's). HP capability and durability I feel is not completely settled, as most users are GT40/Lola MkIIIB replica builders that likely don't "hotrod" them. My guess is 400HP, but it depends a great deal on how you drive them.

Under my encouragement, I directed the GT40 forum members to John Steadman of German Transaxle of America (GTA) who was willing to persue a taller ring and pinion effort (it originally started as a retro of a 951 R&P to an 016). Fortunately, one of the GT40 Forum members stepped up and funded the development of a 3.22:1 R&P.

Andys

Im watching this audi trani option....

Someone do it..

If you have up to 280 ft lbs of torque buy a cheap 901. If you have more than 400 ft. lbs. Skip the 915 and go right to a 930. (I learned the hard way when I blew my 915 up!). The difference in price between a 915 & 930 is not that much. I assume that if you are in need of one of these higher priced boxes you have the money to afford it. Personally, it took 7 years to complete my project. If you cannot afford a 930 box, you have no business playing around with big horsepower. You'll blow the 901 up every time and have a junkyard full of 901 boxes littered everywhere. It doesn't take a hell of alot to blow a 915 up either. How much HP and what is your budget? Go from there...and use the search engine...it'll give you great knowledge.

Bill

Think I got my compatibility issues resolved.

Here you are; Rare Audi/Getrag 01E 6 speed destined for my car. s/b same bellhousing bolt pattern as the Boxster/Audi model 012 5 speed.

Andys

QUOTE (andys @ Feb 28 2006, 01:30 PM)

Think I got my compatibility issues resolved. Here you are; Rare Audi/Getrag 01E 6 speed destined for my car. s/b same bellhousing bolt pattern as the Boxster/Audi model 012 5 speed. Andys

nice.....what cars did those get put into from the factory?

FWD A6 cars or ??

Hey Andy,

I've talked with you in the past about tranaxles. How's it going? I just finished hooking up my 930 box on my car via cable shifter. I'm curious how you are going to shift your Audi box? By the way, that thing looks nice.

Bill

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 28 2006, 12:32 PM)

QUOTE (andys @ Feb 28 2006, 01:30 PM) Think I got my compatibility issues resolved. Here you are; Rare Audi/Getrag 01E 6 speed destined for my car. s/b same bellhousing bolt pattern as the Boxster/Audi model 012 5 speed. Andys nice.....what cars did those get put into from the factory? FWD A6 cars or ??

FWD - Euro only. The flanges can be changed over to "normal" round ones. I'm not sure if those cam the upgraded 1st gear or not.