So My saga continues. I go to clean up my torsion bars and find that one has ALLOT of rust pitting and the other has just one small rust spot.

So they have to be replaced right? I definitly have to replace the one that is pitting but aren't they matched? I guess after 30+ years they may not be any more?

If I have to replace them what size is the best for a Street/ AX car NOT a daily driver?

Thanks!

The highest stress occurs on the largest diameter (surface) of the bar. Any pits means a broken bar waiting to happen.

Anyone ever broke a torsion bar?

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Feb 27 2006, 08:52 AM)

Anyone ever broke a torsion bar?

Yes, I've seen it. It happens quite often, the car is usually drivable, just has a saggy front corner.

usually they are coated in a heavy grease. i hope you note the "L" and "R' stamped into one end before you put them in.

k

I had one break once. Must have happened while it was parked cause when I walked out to get in it I noticed the right front was sitting very low. The drive to the shop was interesting. Felt like the road was covered with ice. If it had let go on a hard turn I believe it would have caused me to crash.

21mm bars on there way

I'm gonna have to look at matching the back with a slightly stiffer spring as well

There the least aggresive and I shouldn't have to worry about being matched

But may the teener is just sucking the money out of my bank account!!!

See it all the time on bugs, torsion bars on rear of IRS cars, will droop to one side. I am certain handling would be spooky, with a broken one. You may like the handling with stiffer front, softer rear, but pay attention so you don't swap ends and back it into something

QUOTE (Tobra @ Feb 27 2006, 07:32 AM)

See it all the time on bugs, torsion bars on rear of IRS cars, will droop to one side. I am certain handling would be spooky, with a broken one. You may like the handling with stiffer front, softer rear, but pay attention so you don't swap ends and back it into something

Do you think a 140# spring in back would be too much?
I'm installing a stock front sway and DO NOT have a rear sway as of yet.

QUOTE (Tobra @ Feb 27 2006, 07:32 AM)

You may like the handling with stiffer front, softer rear, but pay attention so you don't swap ends and back it into something

Stiff front, soft rear sounds like understeer, not oversteer. Or as the good old boys say, push, not loose.

I had one go in the '71. Spiral fracture, and yup she was rusty.

Yep they do tend to break where they are rusty.
I also had one go recently, see the attached picture.
The bar rubbed on the tube of the a arm, right were the rubbing and the rust was is where the bar broke
so rust = bad

QUOTE

Stiff front, soft rear sounds like understeer, not oversteer. Or as the good old boys say, push, not loose.

go to 165's or 180's.....

or add a rear bar......


i have 22/225's on my ride

I borke one, drove 50 or 60 miles on it. Just tried to avoid the big pot holes. Having a front sway bar probably makes a difference (I had one), because you then retain some springing on the broken side.

QUOTE

21mm bars on there way

Why?

What's the advantage of a heavy torsion bar on a street car?

QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Feb 27 2006, 12:12 PM)

QUOTE 21mm bars on there way Why? What's the advantage of a heavy torsion bar on a street car?

I think he said it was an Autocross car.
now ditch the rear bar and 200's for the springs. Koni sports and some sticky new Hoosiers.

I would only use those for road racing...

For autox I would get a larger sway bar.

Here the rust on the torsion bar.

Why?

Because I don't want to have to go back in there.

I'm installing the stock bar for now to get it back out on the road and will start uning the suspension from there. My whole front end was shot and since a wanted to by new bars they were the least stiff of the upgraded bars that I could find. I should be able to work with then far into the future.

The other

QUOTE

Because I don't want to have to go back in there.

Not sure what that has to do with installing larger torsion bars. What advantage are you hoping to get from the big bars?

The least stiff upgraded bars would be new or better stock ones... I'm convinced, this is one of those things people do just because 'it's bigger'. Now you're going to have to spend even more money (didn't you say something about the car draining your wallet?) getting the back end to play nice with the front end.

Enjoy the ride.

You need to focus on what caused the rust on the bar. Are the rubber bushings out of round or flat? When they collapse the let the torsion bar rub the metal in the tube. It starts the sawing action on the torsion bar that causes the rust and metal failure. There are plenty of cheap stock bars for sale out there.

QUOTE (914Sixer @ Feb 27 2006, 05:47 PM)

You need to focus on what caused the rust on the bar. Are the rubber bushings out of round or flat? When they collapse the let the torsion bar rub the metal in the tube. It starts the sawing action on the torsion bar that causes the rust and metal failure. There are plenty of cheap stock bars for sale out there.

Sixer,
I'm redoing the entire front-end New bushings, torsion seals, ball joints, tie-rods, struts, swaybar etc... So I should solve all of the problems at once.

Eric,
Why so harsh? If 21mm is too much for 95% of the owners out there then what do they use the 22mm, 23mm, 24mm bars for? and if stockers are so good why doesn't the majority of the vendors have the stockers? PP and AA say that they are NLA you would think that if the right bar for street/ax (95% of what the 914 is used for)is stock they would sell a 18mm and 19mm bar.
So what would you recommend? hunt through the classifieds for some stockers that are 30+ years old? Do you know of a vender that sells NEW stockers or upgraded?

QUOTE

Why so harsh?

REALLY didn't mean to come across as harsh. Sorry.

QUOTE

If 21mm is too much for 95% of the owners out there then what do they use the 22mm, 23mm, 24mm bars for? and if stockers are so good why doesn't the majority of the vendors have the stockers? PP and AA say that they are NLA you would think that if the right bar for street/ax (95% of what the 914 is used for)is stock they would sell a 18mm and 19mm bar.

Why do people sell 'Flow-Bees' when they give you shitty haircuts? They make money selling 'bigger' bars. Do some searching here. Some of the best minds on the board have recently supported the bigger sway bar, lighter t-bar theory, especially for autocrossing. I like a supple suspension that works with you in that situation. Awesome shocks and a killer anti-sway bar would be my ticket for a nice autox machine. I would save the big bars for serious high speed circuits. Maybe if there's a demand these mfgs. will make a decent 18mm bar... $240 can go a long way toward finding you a good anti-sway bar.

QUOTE

So what would you recommend? hunt through the classifieds for some stockers that are 30+ years old? Do you know of a vender that sells NEW stockers or upgraded?

I've inserted my 'opinion' too much here and it comes across as harsh. Again, sorry about that. It's your car. But... that's exactly what I would do. I'd be willing to bet Rich Bontempi has a 'ton' of stock bars that are in excellent shape. When this thread got started I went out to look at my stash but I only had one good one and the other looked like yours. I would have 'given' them to you for the cost of shipping. I'll bet there's a handfull of people here that would ship you good stock bars for the cost of freight.

Bottom line... the 21's will probably hurt your wallet more than your ride. Keep in mind, you'll want a balanced car for any type of racing. What you do up front, you should also do in the back.

Good luck with the project. Keep us posted.

Wow! Thanks Eric! You've definitly given me a diferent perspective.

I just got a A-arm from spoke and it actually had a good torsion bar so I can use that one instead of my rusted one so I canceled the order for the larger bars. I think my car could really use the money else where.

Don't get me wrong I really appreciate the input of the guys that have more experience than me. So what I have learned out of this is to focus on the sway bar more than the torsion bars and make sure to match the front suspension to the rear to have the WHOLE car balanced.

By the way I just finished installing the stock sway!!!! I figure I will live with the stock torsions, sway and rear springs until I get the car back on the road and track and learn the car for now and then upgrade once I gain more experience.

Thanks again!!!!!

I use 21mm and 180lbs in the back......It may ride like a truck BUT it kicks ass on the pavment......Jaiden, I know you think ill of me but if you are going to use the 21mms up front I have a barley used set of Bilstiens w/adjustable perches and 180lb springs I'll give ya 1st dibbs on.....$200+ship

Josh

QUOTE

I figure I will live with the stock torsions, sway and rear springs until I get the car back on the road and track and learn the car for now and then upgrade once I gain more experience.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

And remember... those are just my opinions. Others have theirs and you should weigh them all according to what you want to acheive.

I really love the comment about 'learn then upgrade'. Even the stock bar will improve your handling tremendously... that and all the new front end goodies.

Josh,
Why would I feel ill of you??? Never hard feeling here.

If I could convince the wife I might go for the bil's but I agreed with her to just do the brakes and front end this season and the rears next season.

Damn I'm whipped!!!

I understand what ya mean...glad you're not upset I really thought you had bought the otherguy's sway...but onward and upward. You should see the F*kn work I have been up to.......

Cars on a rotisserie......stripin everything I can underneath....it is a Beech! and there is NO easy way.....chisel (the best way to get the undercoating off) followed by 2 coats aircraft remover and a wire brush (small thing) to get the paint/primer off

I'll do a blog update in a month or so so all can see the progress of my six conversion/resto/RUSTOration.....$10K and climbing......no for the weak of wallet.....I hope my 200hp 2.4 with 2.2S p&c's and S+ cams is worth it.......

Will stiffer springs and torsion bars make my Bilstein shocks feel a little bit less harsh? I'm thinking they are overdamped and I need more spring to compensate? I'm ok with a stiff ride as long as bumps hit with a "thud" and not a "crash".

QUOTE (Jaiden @ Feb 28 2006, 02:45 PM)

Damn I'm whipped!!!

[QUOTE]

You are not alone. I had my new shocks and springs delivered to my work so the wife wouldn't see them. Now if I can just sneak em into the garage I think I'll be safe.